QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[WailingWall]

16 hours ago, Ezra said:

This is the problem with a lot of Christians.  They believe the Bible is a textbook on systematic theology, and that there is no room for using one's intellect and drawing conclusions. Well since the Lord descends from Heaven, where else would He go except back to Heaven with all the saints?

So tell me Ezra will scripture below suddenly vanish from your bible after you are raptured to heaven

JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, WailingWall said:

JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

WW,

The problem is that you are simply taking verses out of context and using them to promote some strange ideas.  I don't believe we can even begin to address you misunderstandings.  And chances are there would be no progress. 

[OneLight]

I have pondered this for many years.  If Jesus is everywhere, will we also be everywhere?  When He is on the earth, we will be there with Him.  If in His Fathers Kingdom, we will be there also. 

MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD

[WailingWall]

50 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 When He is on the earth, we will be there with Him.  If in His Fathers Kingdom, we will be there also. 

MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain (in the twinkling of an eye}

ZECHARIAH 8 [1] Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] Thus saith the LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts THE HOLY MOUNTAIN.

And Jesus Himself will be there with us

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, OneLight said:

I have pondered this for many years.  If Jesus is everywhere, will we also be everywhere?  When He is on the earth, we will be there with Him.  If in His Fathers Kingdom, we will be there also. 

MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD

Hi OneLight,

Interesting thought to think upon. Here are some of my thoughts -

The Holy Spirit is able to be everywhere, where as the Lord Jesus Christ in His glorified body can only be in one place at a time. To be `with the Lord` doesn`t mean to follow Him all over the universe etc like a gigantic tail of millions of people, but we are with Him in spirit, one in mind & purpose. You & your wife are `one,` where ever you are, even when not physically together. Remember that Jesus said He & the Father were one, while on earth. So it does not mean in one place, but of one heart, mind & will.

Christ is supreme overall, & He has different groups to rule in different realms. The difficulty comes when we don`t follow through with whom God is speaking to in His word & what He has promised them.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, WailingWall said:

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain (in the twinkling of an eye}

ZECHARIAH 8 [1] Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] Thus saith the LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts THE HOLY MOUNTAIN.

And Jesus Himself will be there with us

Hi WailingWall,

And to whom is God speaking to?

When you read the newspaper, do you read it as though it is all about you?

Hope that helps you to think a bit more clearly, bro. Marilyn.

[FresnoJoe]

On 11/17/2016 at 2:16 PM, WailingWall said:

After being changed in the twinkling of an eye, we meet the Lord in the air....
Where do we go from there....

Welcome~! Love Your User Name

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May those who love you be secure. Psalms 122:6 (New International Version)

And Yes, I Too Wail For The Coming Salvation Of All Israel

O Jerusalem, I have posted watchmen on your walls; they will pray day and night, continually. Take no rest, all you who pray to the Lord. Give the Lord no rest until he completes his work, until he makes Jerusalem the pride of the earth. Isaiah 62:6-7 (New Living Translation)

As We Await The Resurrection Of The Just

For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? Romans 11:15 (English Standard Version)

As Jesus Descends Back

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His holy ones to execute judgment on everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of every ungodly act of wickedness and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.” Jude 1:14-15 (Berean Study Bible)

Down To

I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. Hosea 5:15 (New American Standard Bible)

Zion

The LORD will roar from Zion and raise His voice from Jerusalem; heaven and earth will shake. But the LORD will be a refuge for His people, a stronghold for the Israelites. Joel 3:16 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi OneLight,

Interesting thought to think upon. Here are some of my thoughts -

The Holy Spirit is able to be everywhere, where as the Lord Jesus Christ in His glorified body can only be in one place at a time. To be `with the Lord` doesn`t mean to follow Him all over the universe etc like a gigantic tail of millions of people, but we are with Him in spirit, one in mind & purpose. You & your wife are `one,` where ever you are, even when not physically together. Remember that Jesus said He & the Father were one, while on earth. So it does not mean in one place, but of one heart, mind & will.

Christ is supreme overall, & He has different groups to rule in different realms. The difficulty comes when we don`t follow through with whom God is speaking to in His word & what He has promised them.

regards, Marilyn.

That is why I said I have pondered this for years because I cannot say for any certainty.  What I spend more time on is “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”  You see, nobody knows what it will be like, period.

[WailingWall]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi WailingWall,

And to whom is God speaking to?

When you read the newspaper, do you read it as though it is all about you?

Hope that helps you to think a bit more clearly, bro. Marilyn.

Howdy Marilyn

He was speaking to Israel. The bride of Christ

JEREMIAH 3  [20] SURELY AS A WIFE TREACHEROUSLY DEPARTETH FROM HER HUSBAND, SO HAVE YE DEALT TREACHEROUSLY WITH ME, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL, SAITH THE LORD. [21] A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God. [22] Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

Israel is the bride

JEREMIAH 2 [31] O generation, see ye the word of the Lord. Have I been A WILDERNESS UNTO ISRAEL? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee? [32] Can a maid forget her ornaments, OR A BRIDE HER ATTIRE? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.

Israel the bride

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

Backsliding Israel. I am married unto you. Israel is the bride. I will take you one of a city, and two of a family. Sound familiar?

LUKE 17 [33] Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER SHALL BE LEFT. [35] Two women shall be grinding together; THE ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. [36] Two men shall be in the field; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.

Sure does. And they are not going to heaven {as the rapturist claim} but are taken to Zion {Jer.3v14} for the 1000yr period of rest.

REVELATION 21 {9} And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE. {10} And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, {11} Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; {12} And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates  twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:

Theres the bride according to this new covenant scripture. Its the 12 tribes of Israel, just as the old testament says.

[WailingWall]

2 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

Howdy Marilyn

He was speaking to Israel. The bride of Christ

JEREMIAH 3  [20] SURELY AS A WIFE TREACHEROUSLY DEPARTETH FROM HER HUSBAND, SO HAVE YE DEALT TREACHEROUSLY WITH ME, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL, SAITH THE LORD. [21] A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God. [22] Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

Israel is the bride

JEREMIAH 2 [31] O generation, see ye the word of the Lord. Have I been A WILDERNESS UNTO ISRAEL? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee? [32] Can a maid forget her ornaments, OR A BRIDE HER ATTIRE? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.

Israel the bride

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

Backsliding Israel. I am married unto you. Israel is the bride. I will take you one of a city, and two of a family. Sound familiar?

LUKE 17 [33] Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [34] I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER SHALL BE LEFT. [35] Two women shall be grinding together; THE ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. [36] Two men shall be in the field; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.

Sure does. And they are not going to heaven {as the rapturist claim} but are taken to Zion {Jer.3v14} for the 1000yr period of rest.

REVELATION 21 {9} And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE. {10} And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, {11} Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; {12} And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates  twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:

Theres the bride according to this new covenant scripture. Its the 12 tribes of Israel, just as the old testament says.

So if the bride is Israel, wheres that leave the gentiles?

MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:[23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be   their prince for ever. [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and  BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD

ZECHARIAH 8 [7] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; [8] And I will BRING THEM, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD {Zeke37v27}, in truth and in righteousness

The kingdom rest will be in the midst of Jerusalem

ISAIAH 56  [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.