Sabbath Issue

[BobRyan]

On 5/7/2017 at 8:39 PM, Giller said:

Well the 7th day was instituted from the beginning of creation, and that is true, and it does point back to a loving God, but even though it was instituted before the written law, and will be re instituted in the millennial reign, it has still a foreshadow to it, for the sabbath days, which were done away under the new covenant, are part of the foreshadows.

The 7th day was a foreshadow of the other day that Jesus points to in Hebrews, which is the first day of the week, which in shown in the book of Isaiah.

The 7th day pointed to God creating the world etc, in 6 days, and resting on the seventh, and also he wants us to remember how he set the Jews free from Egyptian bondage, but the first day, speaks of a new creation, which points to our salvation, Christ Jesus.

It points to when the new testament church was created, which happened on the day of Pentecost, in the book of Acts.

It points to the born again experience, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

But also the the 7th day (it is finished) points us to our spiritual rest we have in Christ as well.

 

This is an interesting post and brings up a good question about comparing what the Bible says about week-day-1 as compared to the Bible Sabbath -- and observe how the NT saints were worshiping.

[other one]

5 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

We say the same thing about "do not take God's name in vain" -- we command ourselves and choose for ourselves to obey God's Word in that regard. And for others we merely report what God's Word has said on that subject and the fact that we choose to obey His Word in that regard.  We cannot choose for others - -- no matter the commandment.

You are violating scripture when you do.

 

And taking the Lord's name in vain has nothing to do with this subject.

[other one]

10 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

Free will. They were a hostile antagonistic group. 

God "could" always snap his fingers and make all Jews accept Christ, and all pagans become Christians. His free-will model of the universe does not include that sort of thing.

In their hostile form - Christ simply tells them that they have condemned the innocent and that in service to God both priests and apostles work on the Sabbath to promote the Gospel which was not sin in the OT nor is it sin in the NT. He is graciously giving them the answer that is not of the form "sure we are sinning we like sinning - the Gospel is all about the good news that sin is ok".

Instead of agreeing with his accusers - he points them to the correct view of Gospel ministers who work on Sabbath as they had always been doing both OT and NT.

 

However Christ did NOT give his disciples permission to mow their lawns or harvest crops on Sabbath. The incidentals of picking up a handful of food while walking through a field was not the same thing as getting out the tractor and harvesting all day long. 

Nonsense 

[BobRyan]

Just now, other one said:

You are violating scripture when you do.

 

And taking the Lord's name in vain has nothing to do with this subject.

As we all know - the command about not taking God's name in vain (Exodus 20:6) is one of the Ten Commandments - so is the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11).

 

But in the case of  the command against taking God's name in vain -- that is the only one of the TEN Commandments NOT quoted even in part in the NT. All the others are including the Sabbath. Still we cannot force our choice on anyone else - we can only choose for ourselves.

James 2 - he who breaks one - breaks them all.

[BobRyan]

1 minute ago, other one said:

Nonsense 

On the contrary - scripture makes a great deal of sense - even in Mark 2 where Christ is "Lord" of the Sabbath - the Lord's Day.

[Riccardo]

Hello Brother Limey,

Ill have to disagree on some points, 1/ being you said the Sabbath was not a day. When the 4th commandment says remember the Sabbath day. I'm sure the word day means day. Or The Ten Commandments don't stand?  Jesus stated hat not one dot nor tittle shall pass from the law till heaven & earth pass.

You will have to decide on what law He is speaking, especially in the face of the bible declaration that his law will stand forever. Whatever the case there is some law that stands forever, even back in the OT. 

Some presenting the Sabbath as only Jewish this is typically an attempt to pluck the 4th commandment out of the law of God & toss it aside. It is presented as a burden to be taken away by Jesus. But God never created the Sabbath to be a burden. For Christians to call the Sabbath a burden is a distortion. read Isaiah 58:13-14  .        Gods words stand forever.     I have been over all this.

God bless

 

[Limey_Bob]

6 hours ago, Riccardo said:

Hello Brother Limey,

Ill have to disagree on some points, 1/ being you said the Sabbath was not a day. When the 4th commandment says remember the Sabbath day. I'm sure the word day means day. Or The Ten Commandments don't stand?  Jesus stated hat not one dot nor tittle shall pass from the law till heaven & earth pass.

You will have to decide on what law He is speaking, especially in the face of the bible declaration that his law will stand forever. Whatever the case there is some law that stands forever, even back in the OT. 

Some presenting the Sabbath as only Jewish this is typically an attempt to pluck the 4th commandment out of the law of God & toss it aside. It is presented as a burden to be taken away by Jesus. But God never created the Sabbath to be a burden. For Christians to call the Sabbath a burden is a distortion. read Isaiah 58:13-14  .        Gods words stand forever.     I have been over all this.

God bless

 

Exodus 20 was written to Hebrews, you and I are not Hebrews, therefore being gentiles this law about the Sabbath was never written for us (Psalm 147:19-20). Besides which, the Sabbath is all about “rest” at Exodus 20, and this rest is fulfilled (eternally) by resting (i.e. exercising faith or our trust), in Christ, who said: “come unto me and I will give you rest.”  (Matthew 11:28).

 

19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
    his laws and decrees to Israel.
²⁰ He has done this for no other nation;
    they do not know his laws.   (Psalm 147:19-20).

 

Today, within the New Covenant, the law is now fulfilled by Christ by his making a covenant on the cross with God the Father, mediated through the Holy Spirit, on behalf of his elect people (church). So through this new covenant, Christ's righteousness is now imputed unto them (by the Holy Spirit) as a legal act, and their sins are also imputed to Christ, this is called justification.  The idea that we have to do many good works in order to earn our justification is completely unbiblical, as well as being disrespectful to Christ and his work on the cross. For God only saves the ungodly people, (never the godly), who are NOT working for their salvation, he does not save those good people who are working to earn grace (Romans 4:5).

 

^“1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? ² If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. ³ What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” ⁴ Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. ⁵ However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” (Romans 4:1-5, NIV).

 

Those who do try to earn grace by adding their good deeds to justification have fallen from grace (Galatians 3:10-12). Please don't misunderstand, as works do play a part in a person’s walk, James chapter 2, but James is talking about sanctification (i.e. our good deeds before our fellow man), and not before God in Justification (which is God's covenant work in declaring a person not guilty as a legal forensic act).

 

"²³And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. ²⁴ You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. (James 2:23-24).

[BobRyan]

9 hours ago, Riccardo said:

Hello Brother Limey,

Ill have to disagree on some points, 1/ being you said the Sabbath was not a day. When the 4th commandment says remember the Sabbath day. I'm sure the word day means day. Or The Ten Commandments don't stand?  Jesus stated that not one dot nor tittle shall pass from the law till heaven & earth pass.

This is a key point. When a person's preference relies on taking what the Bible actually says and inserting "not" in front of it - that is the "sign" that the preference in question has a bit problem.

 

 

[BobRyan]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Exodus 20 was written to Hebrews, you and I are not Hebrews, therefore being gentiles this law about the Sabbath was never written for us

Isaiah 66:23 Sabbath is for "All mankind"

Isaiah 56:1-8 Gentiles specifically singled out and blessed for Sabbath keeping.

Exodus 20:6 "do not take God's name in vain" --- just for Jews?? really??

[Limey_Bob]

50 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

Isaiah 66:23 Sabbath is for "All mankind"

Isaiah 56:1-8 Gentiles specifically singled out and blessed for Sabbath keeping.

Exodus 20:6 "do not take God's name in vain" --- just for Jews?? really??

Isaiah 56 and 66 are prophetic of Christ and his eternal kingdom, so by using poetic picture language, they are picturing a time called the new covenant when the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ! So Christ is the fulfilment of the Sabbath, the true Sabbath is not simply one day a week, and keeping rules about one day a week such as not washing dishes or walking more than so many steps, the true Sabbath (which seem lost on most evangelicals) is fulfilled in Jesus Christ! I noticed that you have also completely avoided explaining my verses such as Psalm 147:19-20, Matthew 11:28 and Galatians 3:10-11. Your just quoting one side of the argument, i.e. your proof texts, hardly constitutes honest dialogue between us. Please look on both sides of this issue and get back to me, that the Sabbath is rest (Exodus 20), and that this rest points to the true (eternal) rest in Jesus Christ (Matthew 11:28), he is the Lord of the Sabbath: “Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” (Luke 6:5).