70 weeks, 1000 years?

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi again Marilyn,

It's my personal belief and opinion this healing will be global during the millennium.  I also think this global environmental restoration will include humankind, as humans caused it we will be required to help clean it up. All lead by Christ Jesus from the Throne of David in Jerusalem. That's just my view based on my interpretation of the Bible for the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

(Isa. 65: 25) You brought up a good point and I'm aware of this scripture, and you maybe right? Now I'm going to have to study and search the scriptures to see if I can find if "IN ALL MY HOLY MOUNTAIN" pertains to only the 'beasts', or if there's more of an application elsewhere? It was my assumption these 'Edenic' conditions were global during the millennium, as I don't recall anywhere isolating it to only Israel. Then again, the garden of Eden was localized and not global. 

Now I need to go back and review to see if what I 'think' lines up with what the scripture actually says.

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for discussing God`s word & not man`s opinion. Now before I leave this topic I would like to add a comment that I wrote to Last Daze also.

It concerns those nations that do not go up to Jerusalem to the Feast of Tabernacles, they will receive no rain & this will then bring plagues - famine, disease etc. (Zech. 14: 17 & 18)

regards, Marilyn.

[Last Daze]

24 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Before I leave this topic I would like to finish our discussion, which I am grateful for, as you & Dennis actually are discussing God`s word & not man`s theories.

Now you made a good comment on the `mountain` could be depicting a kingdom. I agree that that stone is the Lord`s kingdom through Israel, as promised. It will be His rule across the world. The other nations will come up to Jerusalem & learn the ways of the Lord. (Micah 4: 1 - 5) If any nation does not go up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles then no rain will come upon their land. This will result in famine, disease, etc & thus is not like Eden. (Zech. 14: 17 & 18)

regards, Marilyn.

 

I can agree with that.  And also add that during the millennium will be the first time that the world will not be subjected to the influence of evil angels, at least that I'm aware of.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Last Daze

[Marilyn C]

10 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I can agree with that.  And also add that during the millennium will be the first time that the world will not be subjected to the influence of evil angels, at least that I'm aware of.

Hi Last Daze,

Now I can agree with that too. Amen bro.

Marilyn.

[Last Daze]

15 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Now I can agree with that too. Amen bro.

Marilyn.

And without a point of reference, we have no idea how the absence of evil angels will affect nature.

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

Hello Sister,

Got something for you to think about .. It only just came to me tonight actually .. I want to make a point by turning the 70 weeks prophecy around in such a way as to show that the 70 weeks actually ended before the destruction of Jerusalem (as you already know I believe and I have stated) .. because if I am wrong, then this "turning the prophecy around" wouldn't work .. but if I am right, it should work perfectly ..
 

And this is it .. Imagine that Israel SUCCEEDED in fulfilling these 6 requirements  below :

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy.

Imagine Israel succeeded in those 6 requirements and the wars DIDN'T happen and Jerusalem was NOT destroyed .. because they SUCCEEDED in fulfilling them .. that being the case, then IF .. IF .. IF the wars were truly WITHIN the 70 weeks themselves and the 70 weeks actually ENDED with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, like you have said .. THEN it'd make NO difference if Israel succeeded or not because they still would need Jerusalem be destroyed as the signal to the end of the 70 weeks !!! See? 

Israel STILL would need be PUNISHED even for SUCCEEDING IF .. IF the destruction of Jerusalem truly signified the END of the 70 weeks !!! meaning .. the 70 weeks prophecy would have been an exercise in futility .. a contradiction .. because IF the destruction of Jerusalem signified the end of the 70 weeks, it would have made no difference whether Israel failed or succeeded .. they would have been punished EITHER WAY  .. IF .. IF .. IF the wars were part of the 70 weeks that is .. see??

And if Israel actually succeeded in fulfilling those requirements and there was no destruction in 70 ad, then WHAT would signify the end of the 70 weeks in it's place? See? Another problem arises .. a problem which should NOT arise whether "I turned it around" or NOT !!! See?

It just doesn't work dear Sister, the wars/destruction are the RESULTS of the failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, not a part of the 70 weeks themselves, but the RESULT/EFFECTS of that FAILURE to accomplish those 6 requirements .. it can be no other way, otherwise it is just a contradiction when looked at in the way I put forth .. and the correct reading shouldn't contradict EITHER way if you really think about it, whether i turned it around or not, there just shouldn't be that contradiction there IF 70 ad were indeed the end of the 70 weeks. 

Another thing if you don't mind bearing with me .. please notice this which also just occurred to me tonight :

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There are actually TWO ends in the above passage Sister !!!

TWO ends ..

Because the war itself didn't end in 70ad in Jerusalem .. it ENDED in MASADA .. it wasn't until MASADA that the Romans ENDED their war against the Jewish revolt !!! NOT Jerusalem, but MASADA was the end of the war against the Jewish revolt .. 

What that means is this .. the END of JERUSALEM is what will be with a flood .. NOT the end of the 70 weeks, but the end of Jerusalem .. Jerusalem will END as the RESULT of the FAILURE to meet the 70 weeks requirements, and .. UNTO the end of the WAR (itself) .. unto the end of the war (the Jewish revolt against Rome WAS the WAR) desolations are (still) determined !!!! (because the revolt wasn't FULLY crushed yet UNTIL MASADA a few years AFTER 70 ad !!!!!!) .. It wasn't UNTIL Masada that ROME's army put an END to the WAR !!! 

So you see dear Sister, we missed what was staring us in the face all along .. TWO ends take place in that verse !!

Praise the Lord. 

 

Hi Serving

One problem with that.  Christ was crucified at week 62.

....and what was the next major event?

.....the temple was destroyed in 70AD.  ...here is the 70th week.

Israel have no temple since then.  No sanctuary.  No physical sanctuary, and no spiritual one.  It's left desolate since that day, and will remain desolate until the Coming.  All the Jews that didn't acknowledge Christ stayed in Jerusalem, ...they were punished.  All the Jews who did accept Christ, fled because of persecutions.  Their sanctuary now was Christ.

All that rebuilding of the 2nd temple came to nothing, but it had to be.  Christ stood in that temple,  Their Messiah came, and they had him crucified.

...but history always repeats.  Now Jerusalem have 70 yrs to serve the King of Babylon along with all all the nations.  The same will end with a flood.  There's always a starting point and a finishing point.  The finishing point in Daniel 9, is the destruction of the temple......that was past. fulfilled.  No more temple.  The same will happen again for this generation of the last 70 yrs.  The starting point 1948.

 

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

Hello Sister,

Got something for you to think about .. It only just came to me tonight actually .. I want to make a point by turning the 70 weeks prophecy around in such a way as to show that the 70 weeks actually ended before the destruction of Jerusalem (as you already know I believe and I have stated) .. because if I am wrong, then this "turning the prophecy around" wouldn't work .. but if I am right, it should work perfectly ..
 

And this is it .. Imagine that Israel SUCCEEDED in fulfilling these 6 requirements  below :

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy.

Imagine Israel succeeded in those 6 requirements and the wars DIDN'T happen and Jerusalem was NOT destroyed .. because they SUCCEEDED in fulfilling them .. that being the case, then IF .. IF .. IF the wars were truly WITHIN the 70 weeks themselves and the 70 weeks actually ENDED with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, like you have said .. THEN it'd make NO difference if Israel succeeded or not because they still would need Jerusalem be destroyed as the signal to the end of the 70 weeks !!! See? 

Israel STILL would need be PUNISHED even for SUCCEEDING IF .. IF the destruction of Jerusalem truly signified the END of the 70 weeks !!! meaning .. the 70 weeks prophecy would have been an exercise in futility .. a contradiction .. because IF the destruction of Jerusalem signified the end of the 70 weeks, it would have made no difference whether Israel failed or succeeded .. they would have been punished EITHER WAY  .. IF .. IF .. IF the wars were part of the 70 weeks that is .. see??

And if Israel actually succeeded in fulfilling those requirements and there was no destruction in 70 ad, then WHAT would signify the end of the 70 weeks in it's place? See? Another problem arises .. a problem which should NOT arise whether "I turned it around" or NOT !!! See?

It just doesn't work dear Sister, the wars/destruction are the RESULTS of the failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, not a part of the 70 weeks themselves, but the RESULT/EFFECTS of that FAILURE to accomplish those 6 requirements .. it can be no other way, otherwise it is just a contradiction when looked at in the way I put forth .. and the correct reading shouldn't contradict EITHER way if you really think about it, whether i turned it around or not, there just shouldn't be that contradiction there IF 70 ad were indeed the end of the 70 weeks. 

Another thing if you don't mind bearing with me .. please notice this which also just occurred to me tonight :

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There are actually TWO ends in the above passage Sister !!!

TWO ends ..

Because the war itself didn't end in 70ad in Jerusalem .. it ENDED in MASADA .. it wasn't until MASADA that the Romans ENDED their war against the Jewish revolt !!! NOT Jerusalem, but MASADA was the end of the war against the Jewish revolt .. 

What that means is this .. the END of JERUSALEM is what will be with a flood .. NOT the end of the 70 weeks, but the end of Jerusalem .. Jerusalem will END as the RESULT of the FAILURE to meet the 70 weeks requirements, and .. UNTO the end of the WAR (itself) .. unto the end of the war (the Jewish revolt against Rome WAS the WAR) desolations are (still) determined !!!! (because the revolt wasn't FULLY crushed yet UNTIL MASADA a few years AFTER 70 ad !!!!!!) .. It wasn't UNTIL Masada that ROME's army put an END to the WAR !!! 

So you see dear Sister, we missed what was staring us in the face all along .. TWO ends take place in that verse !!

Praise the Lord. 

 

Hi Serving

One problem with that.  Christ was crucified at week 62.

....and what was the next major event?

.....the temple was destroyed in 70AD.  ...here is the 70th week.

Israel have no temple since then.  No sanctuary.  No physical sanctuary, and no spiritual one.  It's left desolate since that day, and will remain desolate until the Coming.  All the Jews that didn't acknowledge Christ stayed in Jerusalem, ...they were punished.  All the Jews who did accept Christ, fled because of persecutions.  Their sanctuary now was Christ.

All that rebuilding of the 2nd temple came to nothing, but it had to be.  Christ stood in that temple,  Their Messiah came, and they had him crucified.

...but history always repeats.  Now Jerusalem have 70 yrs to serve the King of Babylon along with all all the nations.  The same will end with a flood.  There's always a starting point and a finishing point.  The finishing point in Daniel 9, is the destruction of the temple......that was past. fulfilled.  No more temple.  The same will happen again for this generation of the last 70 yrs.  The starting point 1948.

 

[Dennis1209]

On 12/7/2016 at 5:45 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

I agree with a lot of what you have said. Well presented. Now you may like to look at Isaiah 65: 25 -

`The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, & the dust shall be the serpent`s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy IN ALL MY HOLY MOUNTAIN. ` (Isa. 65: 25)

Thus I believe that it is only in God`s holy mountain in Israel that the `Edenic` like conditions prevail.

What say you concerning this?

Marilyn.

 

Hi again Marilyn,

After studying Isa 65: 25, Isa 11: 9, Isa 56: 7, Eze 20: 40, Dan 9: 16, Joel 3: 16-21, Zech 8: 3 and my Bible commentaries...

From reading the above scriptures, I can interpret it to mean the tamed wildlife and Edenic conditions are isolated to the area of Jerusalem or the land of Israel. I'm not a Bible expert, but I didn't see anything to indicate these conditions going beyond God's Holy Mountain in Israel. Now I'm questioning my long held belief these conditions were global?

My King James Bible commentaries state the conditions described will be global, but they give not one scripture of supporting evidence of their view point. Maybe it's not for me / us to know, but what would be the purpose to isolate those ideal conditions to to Holy land? I can not find an explanation in the Bible.

That raises another point I want to check out and see if they mesh. IF, these ideal conditions are only in Israel, what about the longevity and extended life spans during the millennium? Are they too isolated to Israel? 

It would be my reasoning that both longevity and idyllic conditions would go hand in hand.

[Serving]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Serving

One problem with that.  Christ was crucified at week 62.

....and what was the next major event?

.....the temple was destroyed in 70AD.  ...here is the 70th week.

Israel have no temple since then.  No sanctuary.  No physical sanctuary, and no spiritual one.  It's left desolate since that day, and will remain desolate until the Coming.  All the Jews that didn't acknowledge Christ stayed in Jerusalem, ...they were punished.  All the Jews who did accept Christ, fled because of persecutions.  Their sanctuary now was Christ.

All that rebuilding of the 2nd temple came to nothing, but it had to be.  Christ stood in that temple,  Their Messiah came, and they had him crucified.

...but history always repeats.  Now Jerusalem have 70 yrs to serve the King of Babylon along with all all the nations.  The same will end with a flood.  There's always a starting point and a finishing point.  The finishing point in Daniel 9, is the destruction of the temple......that was past. fulfilled.  No more temple.  The same will happen again for this generation of the last 70 yrs.  The starting point 1948.

 

Hi Sister,

Lol, No Christ wasn't crucified at week 62, i do know why you think this, but please think on it a little more because i know beyond doubt that it's not correct ..

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Notice that God gives TWO different time allotments in the above verse .. 7 weeks, and 62 weeks (He did NOT say 62 weeks He said 7 weeks and 62 weeks, meaning 7 + 62) before adding the THIRD allotment here (the 70th week) : 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

7 weeks and 62 weeks equals 69 weeks .. if it were just 62 weeks, He wouldn't have said and .. because "and" when used with numbers means additional .. ALWAYS HAS meant this, even way back then, even primary school kids are taught this, you would have been taught that too just like I was, remember how they say 1 and 1 =2 .. again, "and" when used with numbers means additional, always has .. therefore 7 weeks and 62 weeks means 7 plus 62, not 62, but 7 and 62 which equals 69. 

So you see, Christ was not crucified at week 62, that just doesn't add up at all Sister .. He was crucified after 7 and 62 weeks .. meaning .. crucified after the 69th week !!

 

Next, please notice how God allotted the times, which we can call stages, and what they were for :

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

See that??, God described TWO distinct events, TWO stages are within that passage .. one and another.   

1 > The 7 weeks stands for the rebuilding of Jerusalem

2 > The 62 weeks stands for the WAITING until Messiah APPEARS.

 

These are TWO clear and distinct actions .. rebuilding and waiting are not the same thing .. So ..

 

1 > When God DEFINED the 7 weeks, He set the 7 weeks aside for the rebuilding of Jerusalem .. that is specific .. it would take 7 weeks for the rebuilding .. that is stage ONE. 

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                          Stage ONE dealt with rebuilding.

 

2 > When God defines the 62 weeks, He need not mention the 7 weeks because He ALREADY DEFINED IT as the rebuilding which has nothing to do with the WAITING which comes after it .. and the WAITING takes 62 weeks once the rebuilding has completed .. these are TWO separate events being DEFINED .. and 62 weeks is stage TWO .. BOTH stages are "stand alone" events .. they are INDEPENDENT of each other but CORRELATE with each other. 

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Block TWO deals with WAITING for Messiah to APPEAR

 

Note : WAITING for Messiah to is NOT the same as rebuilding .. these are clearly TWO distinct and different ACTIONS/EVENTS .. so 7 weeks and 62 weeks equals 69 weeks all up .. so Christ was crucified after week 69 which means He was crucified during week 70.

So now that God DEFINED the TWO stages for us, and we know that the 7 weeks came before the 62 weeks and BOTH stages stood for specific actions/events, then we also can understand WHY God can say, "after 62 weeks" and WHAT He means and WHY He described it this way and WHY He need not mention the 7 weeks when saying "after 62 weeks" which He already divided from the 7 weeks and clearly defined for us in TWO stages which first stage is clearly a separate stage from the waiting for Messiah stage .. 

That is WHY He said "after 62 weeks" instead of just saying 69 weeks (knowing God was making it tricky so the wicked can't plainly understand as Christ alluded to in the gospels), He was describing stage TWO which was a separate action compared to stage ONE .. IF He were describing BOTH stages together (which He wasn't) then He would have said 69 weeks, but He didn't because He wasn't .. He was concentrating on stage TWO when mentioning 62 weeks .. He wasn't dealing with BOTH stages in that description, just stage TWO.

 

3 > Lastly, the remaining 1 week occurs after the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks concludes .. in the last week which followed those TWO stages Messiah will be cut off .. cut off WITHIN that LAST WEEK which, by necessity, again, must take place AFTER stage TWO, which likewise occurred after stage ONE which BOTH together equalled 69 weeks before the last week kicked in. 

So that is stage THREE, the 1 week.

This is how God defined the 70 weeks for us .. in THREE stages .. hence the THREE given time allotments .. because there are clearly THREE distinct actions at work .. building (7 weeks) .. waiting (62 weeks) .. Messiah (1 week) total = 70 weeks.

The last week was to see what Israel would do, (yes God already knew), but He gave them 1 week to make their decision .. you don't PUNISH until AFTER they make that decision .. and the punishments came AFTER the 70 weeks .. you don't punish OR reward UNTIL the deadline expires .. and they were punished, which punishment therefore can only occur AFTER the decision has been finalised . you don't punish or reward UNTIL the allotted time EXPIRES .. and the allotted time was 70 weeks .. WHAT happens AFTER those 70 weeks will clearly tell us WHAT decision was MADE and whether they failed or succeeded .. obviously, they failed to meet the 6 requirements and were punished.  

Think on it more please Sister, it makes sense and harmonizes perfectly .. THREE stages, THREE time allotments .. 7+62=69+1=70 weeks .. only after the 70 weeks comes either the reward or the punishment .. you don't punish or reward during the given time to accomplish, but you do punish or reward after the time expires.

God bless.

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Serving

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

Lol, No Christ wasn't crucified at week 62,

The 70th week is connected to the third temple. So what you're saying is that the 70th week is still future and God puts an end to sin at the end of the 70th week, which means the New Earth would have to begin right away. But the 1000 years comes before the New Earth, and people are dying in the millennium. The math doesn't add up. So I go to the alternative.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi again Marilyn,

After studying Isa 65: 25, Isa 11: 9, Isa 56: 7, Eze 20: 40, Dan 9: 16, Joel 3: 16-21, Zech 8: 3 and my Bible commentaries...

From reading the above scriptures, I can interpret it to mean the tamed wildlife and Edenic conditions are isolated to the area of Jerusalem or the land of Israel. I'm not a Bible expert, but I didn't see anything to indicate these conditions going beyond God's Holy Mountain in Israel. Now I'm questioning my long held belief these conditions were global?

My King James Bible commentaries state the conditions described will be global, but they give not one scripture of supporting evidence of their view point. Maybe it's not for me / us to know, but what would be the purpose to isolate those ideal conditions to to Holy land? I can not find an explanation in the Bible.

That raises another point I want to check out and see if they mesh. IF, these ideal conditions are only in Israel, what about the longevity and extended life spans during the millennium? Are they too isolated to Israel? 

It would be my reasoning that both longevity and idyllic conditions would go hand in hand.

Hi Dennis,

Some really good comments there. Would love to continue this conversation, however I think we would have to start a new thread as it is moving away from the OP.

regards, Marilyn.