Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

[Revelation Man]

42 minutes ago, Salty said:

No thanks on your blog. I've seen enough of those kind of attempts... to prove a ten kingdom European power when the EU today has how many nations joined in it now?? Something like TWENTY EIGHT nations! That totally... dumps any ten-nation, ten king theories about Europe! You might want to check what the investigative journalist Jerome Corsi discovered a few years ago about a shadow group of globalists in the U.S. trying to institute an American Union like the E.U. It's called something like the North American Security and Prosperity Partnership. Corsi showed how there already are department admins working on it behind the scenes. You also might want to read up on some material from Foreign Affairs magazine, since the Council On Foreign Relations has had the one world government goal for many decades.

 

Evidently you haven't seen enough. And why would you be so naive to think that a 28, 25 or whatever it is, bloc of nations cant be SHAKEN to 10 in the future ? England just left, France is rumored to be leaving. Prophecy is about what WILL HAPPEN, not what you assume might happen. I have read Corsi, he is in la la land.

46 minutes ago, Salty said:

Christ Church is not going anywhere. We are appointed to go through the tribulation time which is NOT the time of God's Wrath. Jesus made the timing of His coming and gathering of the Church plain enough in Matt.24:29-31, and Paul did the same in 2 Thess.2. You apparently are following one greatest false TRADITIONS that has so far been created by men, i.e., the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory begun by John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain. For over 1,800 years the Christian Church held to a Post-trib coming of Christ and gathering of the Church. Then the Edward Irving church began to teach a pre-trib idea which Darby took and ran with, which Cyrus Scofield also took and ran with in the U.S.

 

No wonder you are off kilter on so much. You are a Rapture denier. That explains a lot. Matthew 24:23-31 is about when Jesus AND the Church come back IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation. Matthew 24:32-44 is about the Rapture. Jesus had to tell the Jews both options, since most Jews will not believe in Christ Jesus by the time the Rapture happens,  he warns them not to believe the lying people who say I am the Messiah, but look towards the Eastern SKIES..........The Messianic Jews are told to look for the Rapture, ONE will be Taken, and the OTHER will be left !! NO RAPTURE..............GEEZZEEEEEEEEEEE.........Again with the False Traditions. That be you it seems. And the 1830's Jargon, LOL. 

 

53 minutes ago, Salty said:

Ground zero for the coming one world government system, which is the 1st beast kingdom of Rev.13:1-2, will be JERUSALEM. The coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ will be a Jew, and will be established on a throne as king over all nations, mimicking Christ and His kingdom to come (Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2:4; Rev.9:11; Rev.11:7; Rev.12:7-17; Rev.13:11; Rev.17:8-12).

 

Jerusalem has nothing to do with the BEASTS KINGDOM, saves he Conquers Jerusalem, and has it for 42 Months.

[Revelation Man]

30 minutes ago, Salty said:

The emphasis of the Dan.2 statue is giving us HOW the final beast kingdom is going to manifest in the last days just prior to Christ's coming to destroy it. That is its MAIN Message there, because that point is given TWICE in that Dan.2 chapter showing all five pieces of the statue being 'together'. So what's that mean, as you have yet to even consider it?

 

Ummmmmmmmmm no. It means I understand what the Seven Beasts are and you think they are Kings. 

31 minutes ago, Salty said:

It means... ALL of those old beast kingdoms will be manifest again (not necessarily exactly as before), with the feet in power over all of it. The mind picture is of how it will be very shaky and ready to fall, especially since the heaviest metals are on top with the feet being of part iron and clay which doesn't mix. So there's a whole lot more info there than what even scholarly commentaries have been known to give. The end result of it all is pointing to a one-world government of revived pagan systems with a weak joining between East and West. And that means the ten king's power is spread over the whole earth over all nations with ten 'global' regional kingdoms, with Antichrist at the top over it in Jerusalem. To include the idea of 3 kings being 'subdued', it could possibly then look like this:

 

NOT.............It means what it means. Those powers are GONE, and we will have an Anti-Christ Power that represents World Gov.

32 minutes ago, Salty said:

Antichrist king at Jerusalem
3 kings over 3 earthly Unions (E.U., American Union, Asia-Pacific Union)
7 kings over 10 global regions of the whole earth

A Tri-lateral world divided up into 3 sections is what the globalist group Tri-Lateral Commission has been working on for decades.

The 1960's ex-KGB defector to the U.S., Golitsyn, said the long range Russian Communist goal was a one-Socialist Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals (see New Lies For Old - 1984).

TRUE Traditions of men.................................ABOVE..........the Anti-Christ doesn't become a King of God people, he CONQUERS THEM.

34 minutes ago, Salty said:

God causing old Neb to live in the wild like an animal has nothing to do with the 'beast' metaphor in God's Word?? How can you make such a crazy statement?!? That's the kind of statement one makes when they leave the Truth just so they can try to be in the right; and it's inexcusable.

2 Pet.2:12 and Jude 10 gave us the best Biblical description of the word 'beast' applied to men. You might want to brush up on that.

THAT'S 100 PERCENT CORRECT..........The Beast were CONQUERORS, when Nebuchadnezzar became a Beast he was CONQUERED.

21 minutes ago, Salty said:

Saying that right in face of the Ezekiel 16 descriptions makes you look foolish. Revelation is not... speaking of geographical Babylon of history, for that has been destroyed long ago. It's speaking metaphorically, JUST LIKE GOD DID IN THE EZEKIEL 16 CHAPTER ABOUT JERUSALEM.

Isa 1:10
10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
KJV

Jer 23:14
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
KJV

It makes you look foolish, Israel continually played the Harlot, that doesn't mean that she is the Harlot in Rev. 17. You mix thins up and take giant leaps of faith, with no contextual understanding whatsoever. In Rev. 16 we are clearly told who Babylon is, as I pointed out in my OP, it is the Nations that come against Israel. The scriptures are there for all to see.

19 minutes ago, Salty said:

And the word "lives" normally apply to who? To living things, like... people. A kingdom doesn't live, it exists.

The kings of Isaiah 24:22 have their lives preserved in the prison pit and are visited later (after the 1,000 years of Rev.20), and that's the Scripture Dan.7:12 is pointing to.

No, it applies to whatever God means it to apply to. And the beasts are LIVING COUNTRIES/KINGDOMS. It says BEAST !!

14 minutes ago, Salty said:

Actually, it's you that is having to concede about the Dan.2 descriptions related to the final beast kingdom of Dan.7. The info between them cannot be separated, as we were to understand the makeup of the final beast kingdom as shown there in Dan.2 first.

And that final beast kingdom IS... of all... of those 5 pieces being together when Christ comes to smite its feet:

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

I am not conceding anything. I don't think you actually understand very much about Daniel or the book of Revelation, you try hard though, I will give you that. 

[Salty]

2 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Evidently you haven't seen enough. And why would you be so naive to think that a 28, 25 or whatever it is, bloc of nations cant be SHAKEN to 10 in the future ? England just left, France is rumored to be leaving. Prophecy is about what WILL HAPPEN, not what you assume might happen. I have read Corsi, he is in la la land.

Only reason you think Corsi is in la la land is because what he has shown about an American Union goes against your endtime theories.

Based on your EU speculation, Rome could become the capital of the nation of Israel! That's how far out your theory is.

 

2 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No wonder you are off kilter on so much. You are a Rapture denier. That explains a lot. Matthew 24:23-31 is about when Jesus AND the Church come back IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation. Matthew 24:32-44 is about the Rapture. Jesus had to tell the Jews both options, since most Jews will not believe in Christ Jesus by the time the Rapture happens,  he warns them not to believe the lying people who say I am the Messiah, but look towards the Eastern SKIES..........The Messianic Jews are told to look for the Rapture, ONE will be Taken, and the OTHER will be left !! NO RAPTURE..............GEEZZEEEEEEEEEEE.........Again with the False Traditions. That be you it seems. And the 1830's Jargon, LOL. 

 

Jerusalem has nothing to do with the BEASTS KINGDOM, saves he Conquers Jerusalem, and has it for 42 Months.

The word rapture is NOT in my KJV Bible, nor in the NT Greek manuscripts; the word 'rapture' originates from the Roman Latin. Greek harpazo is the word in the manuscripts, and it's rendered as "caught up" in the KJV. And that... I do believe in. But certainly NOT your Darby following version which is a TRADITION FROM MEN because it has the timing completely wrong and away from the timing The Bible gives.

Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 directly parallel the gathering of the Church per Paul in 1 Thess.4. The Matthew 24 version is about the "asleep" saints gathered from heaven that Christ brings with Him, and the Mark 13 version is about the "caught up" still alive on earth gathered at that same time. Furthermore, as I've said many times on this Forum, Christ's Olivet discourse are the signs of the Seals of Rev.6, which are given through Apostle John to the Christian Church.

And yet another error... you make is with that false idea of the one taken and the other left behind! You clearly have not bothered to study the end of Luke 17 for yourself, but have been busy heeding a TRADITION FROM MEN, because it does NOT say what you've been taught! -

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

"Matt.24:28 gives another version of that with, "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."

That final verse 37 is the key. They ask Jesus WHERE that one taken is taken to.

And Jesus answers with an analogy to where the dead carcase is, that's where birds of prey will be gathered together.

That means, the 1st one 'taken' there is as a dead carcase where the birds of prey are gathered to feast! It is NOT about a rapture of the Church at all!

 

[Salty]

9 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Ummmmmmmmmm no. It means I understand what the Seven Beasts are and you think they are Kings.

The ones of Rev.17:11 are about beast kings, the coming Antichrist will be the 7th king. Every one of the beast kingdoms of Daniel has a beast king over it. The two go together, can't have one without the other. So you make no sense.

 

9 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

NOT.............It means what it means. Those powers are GONE, and we will have an Anti-Christ Power that represents World Gov.

Like Dan.2 shows, ALL FIVE PIECES of the statue are "together" when that "stone" (Christ) smites it upon its feet, and then an everlasting kingdom is setup that will never be destroyed.

So that IS... pointing directly to a world-wide beast system with ALL of those previous beast kingdoms manifest again for the end. Exactly how those old pagan will manifest is yet to be shown today, but it's not difficult to see how it can play out as the Antichrist is coming to exalt himself over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That does not... mean a destruction of all other religions, but a melting of all religions into one global religion. Just like how initiate fraternities like the Masons teach all religions derive from the same God, that's how the Antichrist will join all of them.

 

9 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

TRUE Traditions of men.................................ABOVE..........the Anti-Christ doesn't become a King of God people, he CONQUERS THEM.

THAT'S 100 PERCENT CORRECT..........The Beast were CONQUERORS, when Nebuchadnezzar became a Beast he was CONQUERED.

It makes you look foolish, Israel continually played the Harlot, that doesn't mean that she is the Harlot in Rev. 17. You mix thins up and take giant leaps of faith, with no contextual understanding whatsoever. In Rev. 16 we are clearly told who Babylon is, as I pointed out in my OP, it is the Nations that come against Israel. The scriptures are there for all to see.

No, it applies to whatever God means it to apply to. And the beasts are LIVING COUNTRIES/KINGDOMS. It says BEAST !!

I am not conceding anything. I don't think you actually understand very much about Daniel or the book of Revelation, you try hard though, I will give you that. 

The Antichrist will... become king over MANY of God's people. It's what Christ's warning to not be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ is about, and same warning from Paul in 2 Thess.2.

Neb being made low to live like a beast in the wild was to show how our Heavenly Father only is The GOD and Ruler of men and Kingdoms, and Neb was not. One of Neb's faults was in exalting himself when it was God Who did the exalting.

You're making crazy statements again with that word play on the Harlot. Pagan Babylon being put for Jerusalem in Revelation is very simple to grasp, especially since in Rev.11:8 Christ applied the labels of Sodom and Egypt spiritually to Jerusalem involving where God's two witnesses are killed. And the fact we're also shown "the beast" that ascends out of the bottomless pit comes there to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem reveals just HOW Baylon is used as a label for Jerusalem at that time!

And no, it's not just the "Nations" that comes up against Israel on the last day; that is a false Jewish idea trying to include all Gentiles!

It's SPECIFICALLY the nations God gave Ezekiel to write down in Ezekiel 38, pointing to Russia, Iran-Iraq, Sudan, the old Soviet satellites, Libya, and Turkey. The Western nations are NOT involved!

You will eventually concede when these things happen like I've shown you from Scripture. The first major shock you will have is when Jesus does come to gather His Church at the end of the tribulation and finds you travailing with child from another.

 

 

[douggg]

On 12/9/2016 at 3:03 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Seven Headed Beast is explained by the Angel first, many people say it sits on 7 hills, when the passage has nothing to do with hills or location, it is speaking of Seven Rulers who arise, we understand this because in the very next verse it speaks about the Seven Kings.

No, you are wrong, the seven mountains (or hills) is the place where the woman sits.    The seven kings are kings associated with that place.    Rome.    Rome was the fourth empire.    And in the end times there will be the Rome kingdom, which the nations in it are partly strong as iron, and other nations in it are weak like clay.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

The seven heads represent:

1.   Seven mountains on which the womans sits.

2.  Seven kings.

 

The seven mountains do not represent the seven kings - because the mountains are not what John actually saw.     JOHN SAW SEVEN HEADS on the beast.  

 

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

The beast is the eighth king - not eighth mountain because there were never eight mountains.    John did not see a beast with eight heads.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

 

4 hours ago, Salty said:

The word rapture is NOT in my KJV Bible, nor in the NT Greek manuscripts; the word 'rapture' originates from the Roman Latin. Greek harpazo is the word in the manuscripts, and it's rendered as "caught up" in the KJV. And that... I do believe in. But certainly NOT your Darby following version which is a TRADITION FROM MEN because it has the timing completely wrong and away from the timing The Bible gives.

Yes it is, you are just not being real. The word Jesus is not there either, the Greek word for Jesus is Iesous. The word for Rapture is HARPAZO, it is the Greek word, the Latin word is Rapiemur (rapio) which was translated from the Latin (Vulgate) to English as either "we shall be snatched" or "we shall be grabbed" or "we shall be carried off" and so forth.  Similarly, harpagesometha (harpazo root word) has been translated from Greek into English as “we shall be caught up” or “we shall be taken away,” and etc. Moreover, as already mentioned, with every Latin and English translation of harpagesometha the meaning of this Greek verb always connotes a catching or taking that will be a violent, sudden event!

 

HARPAZO (Rapture, Take, Snatch, Force, Pull, Pluck, Catch, Catch Up, Catch Away) Scriptures

Definition: Harpazo

v.

1. to seize, carry off by force

2. to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly

3. to snatch out or away

~ from Thayer’s (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

In the Greek New Testament, the word harpazo is found a total of 17 times in 13 different verses. Each time harpazo is used this verb refers to a quick or sudden often violently physical “snatching away” or “catching away” of a person, a thing, or an idea. More important is the fact that in 5 of these 17 times harpazo is used in the New Testament harpazo ALWAYS refers to the literal physical (bodily) removal of a faithfully righteous human being from one place to another, or from one sphere of existence to another. The 5 times harpazo is used involving faithfully righteous people are when:

1. Philip is harpazo’d from the presence of the Ethiopian eunuch to a different location miles away (see Acts 8:39, AKJV)

2.  Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:2, AKJV)

3. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven; second reference (see 2 Corinthians 12:4, AKJV)

4. Bride of Christ is harpazo’d from the Earth to the clouds to meet Her Groom (Christ Jesus) in the air (see 1 Thessalonians 4:17, AKJV); the understanding here is that the Bride will be taken to Heaven to be with Her Groom

5. Christ Jesus is harpazo’d from Bethany near the Mount of Olives to His Throne in Heaven (see Revelation 12:5; cf. Luke 24:50-51; Acts 1:9; AKJV)

Each one of the above five supernaturally powerful acts of the Holy Spirit by which literal bodily removals of humans either from one place to another on Earth or from off of this Earth to Heaven proves that the Rapture is a biblically sound doctrine. In fact, the English words Rapture and Raptured actually are derived from the Latin verb rapio (catch up or take away), and rapio is used in the Latin Vulgate Bible (also referred to as The Vulgate).

The point here is that many of America’s English words, like Rapture and Raptured, and etc., are derived from words found in the Latin Vulgate Bible—the most commonly used translation of the Holy Bible. St Jerome’s late 4th-century A.D. revised Latin translation of the old Latin Biblical Texts became The Vulgate, and The Vulgate was used over 1,000 years before the Protestant Reformation started! In essence, no other Holy Bible translation has been used longer than the Latin Vulgate Bible, and that includes the highly promoted Authorized King James Version (AKJV)!

So then, believers who doubt that the idea of a Rapture is in their English translations of the Holy Bible need to understand that it is from the Greek New Testament manuscripts that St. Jerome, scholar/translator, originally renders the Latin rapiemur (the first person plural future passive indicative tense of rapio) from the Greek harpagesometha (the first person plural future passive indicative tense of harpazo). Furthermore, in the English versions of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, rapiemur has been translated from Latin into English as either “we shall be snatched,” or “we shall be grabbed,” or “we shall be carried off,” and so forth. Similarly, harpagesometha has been translated from Greek into English as “we shall be caught up” or “we shall be taken away,” and etc. Moreover, as already mentioned, with every Latin and English translation of harpagesometha the meaning of this Greek verb always connotes a catching or taking that will be a violent, sudden event!

The point to this brief grammar lesson is that, as far as the meaning and tense of the Latin word rapiemur are concerned, this word is in agreement with the Greek word harpagesometha, since rapiemur and harpagesometha are the same tense and they both mean the same thing—a sudden and physical withdrawal; a seizing; a snatching, and so forth. So then, there can be no denying that English words like rapt, raptly, raptness, rapture, raptured, rapturous, rapturously, rapturousness, raptor, and so on, undisputedly are derived from rapio’s verb forms such as rapere, rapui, raptus, rapiemur, rapturo, and etc. Moreover, since rapio’s verb forms are accurate translations of the Greek harpazo’s verb forms, then it doesn’t matter if someone uses the AKJV’s “caught away” or “caught up” or if he/she uses the word “raptured,” or “snatched away,” or “taken up,” or “plucked,” or “taken by force,” and so forth, because they all mean the same thing—a very sudden nonconsensual seizure.

Thus, language in this case shouldn’t be used as a barrier to understanding a concept that most definitely is found in the Word of God—that concept being the Rapture. Put differently, the Greek, Latin, and English words used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 all describe exactly how quickly the living Bride of Christ’s fleshly Body will be removed from this Earth and how fast that fleshly Body will be changed into a spirit Body, so it doesn’t matter if one particular English word is or isn’t in the English version of the Holy Bible someone is using. What should matter most is whether the concept of a Rapture is in the Word of God. Based on the words used in the ORIGINAL language of the New Testament, which is Greek, the concept of a Rapture most definitely is in the Word of God.

Below are all of the New Testament verses in which the Greek verb harpazo is used. The blue text is this blogger’s emphasis. These blue words are the AKJV English translations of the Greek harpazo.

Below are all of the New Testament verses in which the Greek verb harpazo is used. The blue text is this blogger’s emphasis. These blue words are the AKJV English translations of the Greek harpazo.

and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. ~ John 10:28-29, AKJV

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. ~ Acts 8:39, AKJV

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ~ Revelation 12:5, AKJV

These verses are interesting in that, first off, Jesus Christ is saying that He is the ONE who will “pluck” (pull, take by force, or snatch/catch up) His Body of Believers or Bride out of harm’s way (the Tribulation Period) so that His Bride will be with Him in Heaven. The Power (force) He will use to “pluck” (pull, take, snatch, or catch up) His Body of Believers or Bride is the Power of Almighty God, which means the Power of God’s Holy Spirit.

Thus, the word “pluck”, which in John 10:28-29 has been translated from the Greek word harpazo, should remind believers in Christ Jesus that, while Jesus Christ eventually will “pluck” them out of this world, He also has promised to keep them secure while they are in this world. The Lord has said that while His disciples/believers/followers are on this Earth NO ONE would be able to “pluck” them out of His hands nor out of the Father’s hands.

Secondly, the phrase “caught away,” in Acts 8:39, also has been translated from the Greek word harpazo. In this case, “caught away” refers to what happened to Philip, an evangelist. He is raptured from the southern desert surrounding Samaria to Azotus (Ashdod), after salvation had come to the Ethiopian eunuch. This Philip is one of the seven men who, because they were of honest report, full of the Holy Spirit, and wisdom, initially were selected to serve tables and superintend the distribution of food (see Acts 6:3).  Therefore, the interesting thing here is that Jesus Christ has said ONLY He would do the plucking (harpazo’ing or rapturing), so it is ONLY the Lord via the Holy Spirit who has harpazo’d Philip from one place in Israel to another location.

Then too, in Revelation 12:5, the phrase “caught up” also has been translated from the Greek word harpazo. Here “caught up” refers to Christ Jesus’ Ascension, which takes place 40 days after His resurrection and 10 days before the Day of Pentecost, when for the very first time in Christians’ history the Holy Spirit is poured out on the 120 Upper Room Jewish disciples. This verse is a symbolic presentation of what actually happened in Acts 1:9, when while the Lord is blessing His disciples He suddenly is taken up or carried up (cf. Luke 24:50-51). So then, the interesting thing here is that since NO ONE can “pluck” any of the Lord’s followers out of His hand or out of the Father’s hand, then the ONLY ONE who is catching up (harpazo’ing or rapturing) the Lord is the Father via the Holy Spirit.

 

Other Harpazo verses:

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. ~ Matthew 11:12, AKJV

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. ~ Matthew 13:19, AKJV

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. ~ John 6:15, AKJV

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. ~ John 10:12, AKJV

And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle. ~ Acts 23:10, AKJV

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. ~ 2 Corinthians 12:2, AKJV

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. ~ 2 Corinthians 12:4, AKJV

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, AKJV

and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. ~ Jude v. 23, AKJV

 

Each one of these above verses proves that being harpazo’d is indeed a quick or sudden often violently physical “plucking,” “pulling,” “taking,”  “snatching away,” “catching away,” or rapturing of a person, a thing, or an idea. It should be evident now how the connotation (meaning) of harpazo remains consistently the same!

Lastly:

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ~ 1 Corinthians 15:52, AKJV

Although there is no form of harpazo in 1 Corinthians 15:52, based on the meaning of harpazo the apostle Paul no doubt is telling the Corinthians, and all members in the Body of Christ, that just as supernaturally, suddenly, and forcibly the individual bodies of the dead in Christ will be “raised” from their graves this too will be exactly how supernaturally, suddenly, and forcibly the alive Bride of Christ, at the time the Lord comes on a cloud to meet Her in the air, will be Raptured. Everyone will be harpazo’d in “a moment, in the twinkling of an eye” speed. In other words, the apostle Paul is NOT saying that the we “shall not all sleep” Rapture reference in 1 Corinthians 15:51 and the we “shall be caught up” together Rapture reference in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will happen at the same time as the Bride’s miraculous glorification or the “changing” of Her Body as a whole from mortal to immortal, but he definitely is saying that both events (the Bride’s Rapture and Her Body’s glorification) supernaturally will happen unimaginably fast!

In summary, harpazo is in 13 New Testament verses for a total of 17 times, and this verb’s connotation always is understood to mean a catching up/catching away or taking up/taking away or snatching up/snatching away, and so forth, that ALWAYS is violent, sudden, nonconsensual yet supernatural! In other words, the Divine Truth is that God has more than established the concept of being suddenly, forcibly, and supernaturally “caught up” or “taken away” (Raptured), and this concept pertains to people, things, and other related ideas. Thus, just because the English word Rapture is not in any particular English translation of the Holy Bible that doesn’t mean that the concept of a Rapture is not in the Holy Bible, because it most definitely is there, and this concept begins with Enoch’s Translation.

Therefore, those people who argue that neither the word Rapture nor the concept of a Rapture is in the Word of God have to remember that the ORIGINAL texts of the New Testament, in which the Rapture concept is found, are Greek NOT English. These same people also have to remember that the Latin Vulgate Bible, which is St. Jerome’s Latin translation of both the Hebrew Tanakh and the Greek New Testament manuscripts, has been around and read way longer than any American English versions of the New Testament Scriptures. Additionally, these same people need to remember that in The Vulgate is the Latin equivalent of the Greek word harpagesometha, which is a form of the Greek verb harpazo. That Latin equivalent is rapiemur, which is a form of the Latin verb rapio, from which Americans get the word Rapture!

 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Salty said:

Only reason you think Corsi is in la la land is because what he has shown about an American Union goes against your endtime theories.

Based on your EU speculation, Rome could become the capital of the nation of Israel! That's how far out your theory is.

Israel as a Nation, excepts Jesus as their Messiah before the Abomination of Desolation happens. (Malachi 4:5-6, Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1) Thus ALL ISRAEL (The Nation/Not all Jews) is Saved. No one becomes Israels "King" because thy Flee into the Wilderness where God protects them, there will be a few Jewish sellouts, but Israel flees to the wilderness. This whole philosophy that the Anti-Christ becomes the King of the Jews is just pure fantasy. Rome was not the "Capital" of Israel in 33 AD were they ? No, even though they were a Defeated foe, there Capital was STILL Jerusalem, so your point makes no sense to me. 

4 hours ago, Salty said:

The ones of Rev.17:11 are about beast kings, the coming Antichrist will be the 7th king. Every one of the beast kingdoms of Daniel has a beast king over it. The two go together, can't have one without the other. So you make no sense.

 

They are about KINGS.........NOWHERE are they called BEASTS.

4 hours ago, Salty said:

Like Dan.2 shows, ALL FIVE PIECES of the statue are "together" when that "stone" (Christ) smites it upon its feet, and then an everlasting kingdom is setup that will never be destroyed.

So that IS... pointing directly to a world-wide beast system with ALL of those previous beast kingdoms manifest again for the end. Exactly how those old pagan will manifest is yet to be shown today, but it's not difficult to see how it can play out as the Antichrist is coming to exalt himself over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That does not... mean a destruction of all other religions, but a melting of all religions into one global religion. Just like how initiate fraternities like the Masons teach all religions derive from the same God, that's how the Antichrist will join all of them.

 

NO.....The Dream is showing you that all Governments that are OF MAN will be destroyed. The Statue signifies mans attempt to serve himself over God. Those Kingdoms are Dead and Gone............It might be a word wide Beast System, but the Ruler will be a Grecian Ruling from Europe.

4 hours ago, Salty said:

The Antichrist will... become king over MANY of God's people. It's what Christ's warning to not be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ is about, and same warning from Paul in 2 Thess.2.

 

The Church will not be here and Israel will be protected by God in the Wilderness, so just who are those he is over ? Most who reject him will be beheaded. They are the Christians under the Alter in the 5th Seal. 

4 hours ago, Salty said:

Neb being made low to live like a beast in the wild was to show how our Heavenly Father only is The GOD and Ruler of men and Kingdoms, and Neb was not. One of Neb's faults was in exalting himself when it was God Who did the exalting.

 

It has nothing to do with Why Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome were called BEASTS though. That is the point.

4 hours ago, Salty said:

You're making crazy statements again with that word play on the Harlot. Pagan Babylon being put for Jerusalem in Revelation is very simple to grasp, especially since in Rev.11:8 Christ applied the labels of Sodom and Egypt spiritually to Jerusalem involving where God's two witnesses are killed. And the fact we're also shown "the beast" that ascends out of the bottomless pit comes there to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem reveals just HOW Baylon is used as a label for Jerusalem at that time!

And no, it's not just the "Nations" that comes up against Israel on the last day; that is a false Jewish idea trying to include all Gentiles!

It's SPECIFICALLY the nations God gave Ezekiel to write down in Ezekiel 38, pointing to Russia, Iran-Iraq, Sudan, the old Soviet satellites, Libya, and Turkey. The Western nations are NOT involved!

You will eventually concede when these things happen like I've shown you from Scripture. The first major shock you will have is when Jesus does come to gather His Church at the end of the tribulation and finds you travailing with child from another.

 

Israel will have EXCEPTED Jesus as their Messiah by this time, so they are not seen by God as a sullen prostitute anymore. Its called REPENTANCE !! You have your timing off. In Rev. 16 I prove exactly who it is. The Anti-Christ/10 Kings/False Prophet DO WHAT ? They entice the KINGS OF THE EAST (Iran,Iraq, all the Arabs, Ethiopia, Sudan etc. etc to come against Israel. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA. This is what confuses many of you about Islam, they do come against Israel, but only after they have been SUBJUGATED by the anti-Christ and the 10 European Kings.  So you see, I understand, and always have about the Kings of the East coming against Israel. But the European Union or Revived Rome are the PACK LEADERS. 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

No, you are wrong, the seven mountains (or hills) is the place where the woman sits.    The seven kings are king associated with that place.    Rome.    Rome was the fourth empire.    And in the end times there will be the Rome kingdom, which the nations in it are partly strong as iron, and other nations in it are weak like clay.

 

And the Woman sits on what ? The Seven Headed Beast or Seven Kingdoms. The Mountains are Seven Rulers, the Greek word oro is used and it means to "Rise or Rear up" as in rising above the plains. She sat an a Seven Headed Beast = Seven Kingdoms, she sat on Seven Mountains which = Seven Kings. The very next verse says 5 have Fallen, ONE IS and one is YET TO COME !! It is obvious that these Mountains represents KINGS..... She sat on a Seven Headed Beast and Seven Mountains. As I state in y OP, (I Think) God wanted everyone to know the last BEAST would be a mere MAN.........The other Six were Beast KINGDOMS, thus God translated the lingo from Beast Heads to Mountains that represented SEVEN RULERS. The LAST HEAD or the last BEAST will be a MAN !! 

It has nothing to do with a location, and everything to do with WHO JESUS DEFEATS, because they came against and Conquered Gods people(s). I agree, the Last Kingdom springs forth from Rome. 

4 hours ago, douggg said:

The seven heads represent:

1.   Seven mountains on which the womans sits.

2.  Seven kings.

 

The seven mountains do not represent the seven kings - because the mountains are not what John actually saw.     JOHN SAW SEVEN HEADS on the beast.  

 

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

The beast is the eighth king - not eighth mountain because there were never eight mountains.    John did not see a beast with eight heads.

You are right, but the Angel translated to John what the Seven Mountains stood for. The Seven Heads and Seven Mountains were the exact same thing. EXCEPT, the Angel wanted John to know the LAST BEAST WAS A MAN...........That was VERY IMPORTANT. 

Satan IS the 8th King, but he is a Demonic power, he has been ruling on Earth as the King of Earth since Adam fell. He is called the god of this world. Sure he is the BEASTS KING.............Just as Jesus is our King, but Jesus is not a physical presence on earth either, until he returns.  It says the 8th King is OF THE SEVEN.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

she sat on Seven Mountains which = Seven Kings.

 That's the part you are wrong on.    She on a beast having 7 heads.    She is not sitting on seven heads.    Nor is she sitting on ten horns.  

Can't you simply read the text?     The woman is sitting on the beast - but not the horns or nor heads.

 

17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

 

The 7 heads represent:

1.   the place, 7 mountains or hills, where the woman sits - which is Rome, the beast is the Roman Empire.

2.   7 kings related to that place.

In Daniel 7, the fourth empire is the Roman Empire.       The king associated with the Roman Empire in Daniel 7 is the little horn person, who becomes the beast person in Revelation 13.       The beast, as a kingdom in Revelation 13, is the Roman Empire, and in the endtimes, it is the EU.

The four beasts in Daniel 7 are four kingdoms and four kings.     The fourth kingdom is the Roman Empire.   The fourth kingdom king is the little horn person.

In Revelation 13, the beast coming out of the sea is the same as in Daniel 7.

1. The beast, as a kingdom, is the end times Roman Empire - the EU.

2. The beast, as a king, is the little horn person (king 7) who will be killed and come back to life possessed by the unclean spirit in the bottomless pit as king 8.

 

It is so simple, but you get it all convoluted.       There is going to be a ten leader form of the EU, which one person becomes the leader of.   The 7th Julio-Claudian leader of the Roman Empire.    That person is the little horn.    Following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think he is ther messiah, and the person becomes the king of Israel.  

He betrays them by claiming to be God.   They reject him accordingly.   The person is killed and comes back to life, and is backed by the EU leaders, and he thus becomes the 8th king...   the beast in Revelation 13 that the world worships.

 

Quote

 

You are right, but the Angel translated to John what the Sven Mountains stood for. The Seven Heads and Seven Mountains were the exact same thing. EXCEPT, the Angel wanted John to know the LAST BEAST WAS A MAN...........That was VERY IMPORTANT. 

 

 

 

You are using the term LAST BEAST, in conjunction with your notion that there are 6 prior beasts.     That's where you are convoluting everything.   What you really mean is SEVENTH beast (in your interpretation).    But confuse the issue by saying LAST BEAST.     There are no 7 beasts to start with.     You are creating that notion.   

Do you read anywhere that I (or anyone else for that matter) have said anything about a LAST BEAST?     No.    Because there are only four beasts in Daniel 7.     And Revelation concerns itself only with the fourth beast that the little horn will emerge from.

There are 7 "kings".   Not 7 "beasts".    Not 7 "KIngdoms.

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"Can't you simply read the text?     The woman is sitting on the beast - but not the horns or nor heads"

 

That she is .... she is controlling [dominating] the beast and his Middle Eastern kingdom at the time of the end

The "woman" is MBG [essentially the unbelieving world] and she has a "great city" who dominates the beast until the beast and his 10 Middle Eastern kings turn on her and destroy her "great city" in one day [Revelation 17:16-18]

This action will take place at the beginning of the coming tribulation .... the Lord's first judgment of the period [Revelation 14:8]

This will cause world wide chaos among the nations and the beast will then be in a position to dominate [Revelation 18:1-21]