Do Pastors need a gun?

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

Ok not to stray from my root point. I don't believe Pastors 'need' a gun because unless his battles are won in the spirit by the Lord and His angels it cannot be won in the flesh and therefore a physical weapon would be ineffective after the fact. You believe that Pastors need a gun and that's fine. We both share different views and I guess we'll both hold on to these views.

You can pray and do all the spiritual warfare all you want and still end up in a car accident, or your house getting burned down, or your child getting hit by a drunk driver.  And there is no guarantee that you won't be assaulted or killed by an assailant.  There are no promises from God that pastors or anyone else is immune from danger, no matter what they do in the realm of the Spirit. 

The issue with your remarks isn't that we feel a pastor needs a gun, but your argument that a pastor having a gun proves he doesn't really trust God and if he did, he would not feel a need to carry.  As stated before, if everyone lived their lives with that same approach in other contexts, it would be disastrous.

 

[da_man1974]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You can pray and do all the spiritual warfare all you want and still end up in a car accident, or your house getting burned down, or your child getting hit by a drunk driver.  And there is no guarantee that you won't be assaulted or killed by an assailant.  There are no promises from God that pastors or anyone else is immune from danger, no matter what they do in the realm of the Spirit. 

The issue with your remarks isn't that we feel a pastor needs a gun, but your argument that a pastor having a gun proves he doesn't really trust God and if he did, he would not feel a need to carry.  As stated before, if everyone lived their lives with that same approach in other contexts, it would be disastrous.

 

Well stated Shiloh.

[Guest shiloh357]

42 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Not my point at all, yes, scripture does indeed instruct us to help other people.  How many people did you or your churches mission group kill to help someone?

None.  And I hope it stays that way.

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 I believe the argument for a pastor(or anyone) needs to have a gun is based on a worldly basis.  

No, it's not.  It's a practical argument. It's same kind of practical argument we make for locking our doors, having health and life insurance, car insurance, fire and home insurance.  It's about recognizing the dangers we face and being prepared to face them.

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Do we have the right to self defense?  Absolutely.  In the U.S. we have the right to own guns.

The problem is that self-defense is held up by some as a violation of "loving your enemies."   It creates a false moral dilemma (based on a gross misapplication of that command) where if you are in a situation where you have to defend your family, do you love your family or do you love the attacker, more?

Are you going  say to your wife, "Sorry honey, but you're just going to have to let this rape you 'cause the Bible says we have to love our enemies."  

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Many around the world would be breaking the law if they owned a gun.  So guns appear to me, to not be a God given right, as we are instructed to obey the laws.  

In the US we have a Bill of Rights that allows us to carry.  Not too much we can do about those in other countries.  But that is red herring and really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. 

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 Can a pastor have a gun?  Sure

But do you think he should?  And what about a pastor who carrying in the pulpit on Sunday morning?

[hmbld]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You can pray and do all the spiritual warfare all you want and still end up in a car accident, or your house getting burned down, or your child getting hit by a drunk driver.  And there is no guarantee that you won't be assaulted or killed by an assailant.  There are no promises from God that pastors or anyone else is immune from danger, no matter what they do in the realm of the Spirit. 

The issue with your remarks isn't that we feel a pastor needs a gun, but your argument that a pastor having a gun proves he doesn't really trust God and if he did, he would not feel a need to carry.  As stated before, if everyone lived their lives with that same approach in other contexts, it would be disastrous.

 

Then again, a guy can have weapons stockpiled, carrying multiple guns, even have one in his hand, squeezing the trigger, and be picked off from behind by a perp who would never kill anybody except he found you aiming for his buddy so he decided to save his buddy.  My hope isn't of this world, and being killed by a perp will result in finally going home.  A gun could be useful, or, it could even hasten your demise simply by having one in your hands when the perps come.  

[gerbilwoman]

I wouldn't be comfortable with a pastor carrying a gun.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Then again, a guy can have weapons stockpiled, carrying multiple guns, even have one in his hand, squeezing the trigger, and be picked off from behind by a perp who would never kill anybody except he found you aiming for his buddy so he decided to save his buddy.  My hope isn't of this world, and being killed by a perp will result in finally going home.  A gun could be useful, or, it could even hasten your demise simply by having one in your hands when the perps come.  

That isn't even germane to what we are talking about.   The point is that it is presumptuous to assume that you can throw caution to the wind and expect God to clean up after you.  That's not faith.

[hmbld]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

  But that is red herring and really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. 

But do you think he should?  And what about a pastor who carrying in the pulpit on Sunday morning?

Well, I don't know how its a red herring, as I believe it does pertain to what we are talking about.

Should a pastor?  My opinion, is no.  If he carries one to the pulpit Sunday morning?  I guess I really don't care, thats up to him.  

[hmbld]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

That isn't even germane to what we are talking about.   The point is that it is presumptuous to assume that you can throw caution to the wind and expect God to clean up after you.  That's not faith.

Its also disturbing to see so much support of weapons intended to kill, here on a christian board, especially with all the statements about how they can save you or your wife or kids.  When in real life, someone already breaking the law is probably going to shoot you at first sight of your weapon.  Maybe not someone out to steal your wallet, they might be too scared.  But any hardened criminal would instinctively shoot you first, or one of his buddies when they learn of your intentions.  Putting your faith in weapons is throwing caution to the wind.

[da_man1974]

9 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Its also disturbing to see so much support of weapons intended to kill, here on a christian board, especially with all the statements about how they can save you or your wife or kids.  When in real life, someone already breaking the law is probably going to shoot you at first sight of your weapon.  Maybe not someone out to steal your wallet, they might be too scared.  But any hardened criminal would instinctively shoot you first, or one of his buddies when they learn of your intentions.  Putting your faith in weapons is throwing caution to the wind.

That is putting the gun as the problem.  Not the person that uses it.  Many people use guns just for target shooting.

Nobody is putting their faith in the weapon.  They are just upping their odds of being protected.  

[Guest shiloh357]

17 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Well, I don't know how its a red herring, as I believe it does pertain to what we are talking about.

Should a pastor?  My opinion, is no.  If he carries one to the pulpit Sunday morning?  I guess I really don't care, thats up to him.  

Why should a pastor not own a gun?