gdemoss Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted January 13, 2017 It is better to assume I have not committed the unforgivable sin an serve God than to believe I have and give up on God. As for the torment, even forgiven sin needs amends made. Therefore, Jesus said if you bring your gift to the alter and there remember that someone has something against you, go be reconciled to them first. I had to learn how to get right with others to stop the torment though I had been forgiven. The Spirit of Christ I'm me compels me to make past wrongs right for the sake of the one I have wronged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted January 13, 2017 On 1/11/2017 at 2:29 PM, Fran C said: I'd like to understand better... If you trust Jesus to forgive your sins, paying for them by dying on the cross, what do you mean by " not accepting His sacrifice as payment in full". Fran Hi Fran, First, let me quote myself so I can see in context, what I said and be better able to speak to that intelligently: However, I am going to have to stick with the Bible on this one, and trust that Jesus forgave my sins, paying for them by dying on the cross. If that understanding is correct, then clearly my failure to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross as payment in full for my sin, was forgivable after all. OK, all I was attempting to say there, is that our sins are atoned for (reconciled with God) through Jesus work on the cross. That debt has been settled between all believers and God. With that as my understanding, all of my sins, including all the things I did before I came to know the Lord, have been wiped clean. Therefore (assuming I have that correct) all of those sins were forgivable, and the prove of that is in the fact that they HAVE been forgiven. So, the qualifier there, that you are asking about: "not accepting His sacrifice as payment in full" means that there was a time, where I did not accept the sacrifice of Jesus as a payment in full. That is what we, as unbelievers do, we do not accept Jesus work on the cross on our behalf. In fact, many unbelievers do not even understand sin, nor recognize a need to be forgiven. This sin of unbelief though, cannot be unforgivable, since that was my prior state, and yet here I stand, now forgiven. Now, it would be correct to say, that unless we come to faith in Jesus, our sins will not be forgiven. It seems to me, that there are all sorts of believers. There are people who believe in God (even demons believe in one true God). There are people in false religions, Islam for example, who believe that there is one true God, the God of Abraham. Believers though, believers who enjoy fellowship with God, who have been adopted by God as His children, those who were saved in eternity, are being saved presently, and will be saved finally, do not merely believe in God, they believe what He has said and yield to it. What has He said? He has said that were are saved by grace, through faith, not by works, and this not of ourselves. If anyone thinks that they have done something to be saved, then they are not trusting God at His word. That means they are not believers by faith, but are trusting in something else. Often the something else is works, as though we can earn our salvation. Salvation is a gift, gifts are free, not earned. Not only this, but Jesus is THE way (not a way) - - - no one comes to the Father except through Him When God gives us the faith to believe, He grants us repentance, and the work of Jesus is applied to our account. Thus, we cannot say, that unbelief is unforgivable. No one in born believing that they are a sinner, in need of forgiveness in Jesus. If unbelief were the unforgivable sin, then no one would ever have been forgiven. That was a lot of words, I hope that made it clear, what I meant, not more confusing. Thanks for allowing be the opportunity to clarify, whether or not I was successful doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted January 13, 2017 48 minutes ago, Fran C said: I was scrolling through this thread and realized I misunderstood something you posted. It sounded as though you were saying that you believe in Jesus but do not accept His sacrifice on the cross. I see that you're only putting that forth as a hypothetical. I couldn't understand how someone could BELIEVE in Jesus, but NOT accept His sacrifice. Ooops!! Oh, lol, well, I just spoke to my meaning, then saw this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Oh, lol, well, I just spoke to my meaning, then saw this! Godly words are never wasted! Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Hi Fran, First, let me quote myself so I can see in context, what I said and be better able to speak to that intelligently: However, I am going to have to stick with the Bible on this one, and trust that Jesus forgave my sins, paying for them by dying on the cross. If that understanding is correct, then clearly my failure to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross as payment in full for my sin, was forgivable after all. OK, all I was attempting to say there, is that our sins are atoned for (reconciled with God) through Jesus work on the cross. That debt has been settled between all believers and God. With that as my understanding, all of my sins, including all the things I did before I came to know the Lord, have been wiped clean. Therefore (assuming I have that correct) all of those sins were forgivable, and the prove of that is in the fact that they HAVE been forgiven. So, the qualifier there, that you are asking about: "not accepting His sacrifice as payment in full" means that there was a time, where I did not accept the sacrifice of Jesus as a payment in full. That is what we, as unbelievers do, we do not accept Jesus work on the cross on our behalf. In fact, many unbelievers do not even understand sin, nor recognize a need to be forgiven. This sin of unbelief though, cannot be unforgivable, since that was my prior state, and yet here I stand, now forgiven. Now, it would be correct to say, that unless we come to faith in Jesus, our sins will not be forgiven. It seems to me, that there are all sorts of believers. There are people who believe in God (even demons believe in one true God). There are people in false religions, Islam for example, who believe that there is one true God, the God of Abraham. Believers though, believers who enjoy fellowship with God, who have been adopted by God as His children, those who were saved in eternity, are being saved presently, and will be saved finally, do not merely believe in God, they believe what He has said and yield to it. What has He said? He has said that were are saved by grace, through faith, not by works, and this not of ourselves. If anyone thinks that they have done something to be saved, then they are not trusting God at His word. That means they are not believers by faith, but are trusting in something else. Often the something else is works, as though we can earn our salvation. Salvation is a gift, gifts are free, not earned. Not only this, but Jesus is THE way (not a way) - - - no one comes to the Father except through Him When God gives us the faith to believe, He grants us repentance, and the work of Jesus is applied to our account. Thus, we cannot say, that unbelief is unforgivable. No one in born believing that they are a sinner, in need of forgiveness in Jesus. If unbelief were the unforgivable sin, then no one would ever have been forgiven. That was a lot of words, I hope that made it clear, what I meant, not more confusing. Thanks for allowing be the opportunity to clarify, whether or not I was successful doing so. Thanks Omegaman. I liked reading the above. Re sin. I used to teach children religion until about 2 years ago. Did you know that many children believe they have never sinned? It would take a few lessons just to make them understand what sin is. Then you have to show them how we all sin. Then the difference between confession and reconciliation. Then you have to pray some of them will remember everything because today, not all parents teach their children about the love of Jesus. Fran Edited January 13, 2017 by Fran C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,653 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2017 TRULY FULFILLED, SATAN is putting questions and accusations in your head. You are being tempted to believe him and so far you are rejecting these unholy thoughts. You need to get grounded in God's Word--the Bible, and especially the New Testament. You need to find the verses that contradict these unholy thoughts, underline them, and then read them aloud and when the enemy harasses you; just tell him he is a liar and the father of lies so you don't have to listen to him. When Jesus was first baptized he was taken out in the wilderness where his body became weak because he was fasting and praying. Then satan came to him with all kinds of temptations, perverting God's Word with half truths, and Jesus replied with correct verses and resisted the devil. "Resist the devil and he shall flee from you". So finally satan left him alone for a while. This happens to all of us. It is very important that your faith be based on God's Word. It is the solid foundation. It will keep you from being shaken by lies whether they be from a TV evangelist or from stray thoughts that are totally unwanted. You will never be condemned for temptations. Just don't give in to them or entertain the unwanted thoughts. God is totally righteous and loving, and has said that when you trust in Christ's sacrifice for your sins, He will keep you from the wicked one. But He will also test your faith to make you stronger. Even if you do sin, all you have to do is confess your sin . 1 John 1 says "If you confess your sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." See, you must read and re read your bible because it does answer your questions. I underline the verses I find that speak peace to me like this one and even memorize them. Blessings, Willa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2017 Blessings truly Welcome to Worthy......I do agree with Willa,the enemy is just feeding these thoughts & you first have to recognize that & understand that you are a vessel.....like a an empty cup......Jesus Abides in you & has brought you to LIFE....your spirit has been made ALIVE in Christ ...the day you came to the foot of the cross and asked Jesus Forgiveness,to be your Lord & your Savior is the day you were Reconciled back to our Heavenly Father......His Grace has afforded you a guaranteed Seal of Redemption on your spirit......your sin cast into the Sea of Forgiveness Quote King James Bible For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 8:12 The enemy does not want you to Believe Gods Word......he hits you hard with condemnation,the devil is a LIAR.... Now,about that "vessel",look at it this way....If you had an empty cup & you filled it to the brim with great ,nourishing,delicious, sweet juice then there would be NO ROOM for anything else,right? But if you pour some out & don't add sweet juice to it orb if you leave it out on the counter for a few days it will begin to evaporate & you have to fill it back up before someone comes along (that doesn't like you) & they will add sour milk to it.....or if you are not careful you may add the wrong thing to it......if its FILLED,no chance!!!!! THat's Gods Word!!!! Keep your heart,mind & spirit FILLED with the things of God...His Word,prayers,praise & thoughts of Him,talk to Him.......that's why Paul says... Quote 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18King James Version (KJV) 16 Rejoice evermore. 17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Build your Relationship with God in Christ.....you must NOURISH New Life to sustain it & keep it healthy ,would you starve a new born baby or leave it unguarded before a pack of ravenous wolves?.....The enemy is a predator & he looks for any & every opportunity to take what does not belong to him...YOU,your Faith,your JOY,your PEACE,your COMFORT....Remember,my friend,you are Gods Property & he has no legal right to touch what belongs to GOD but you can't abandon the property because he will trespass,loiter, Quote King James Bible The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10 Get firmly established in your FAITH,get planted & rooted in the Word of God and see WHO you are in CHRIST!!!!! Stand on the Position of VICTORY that Jesus paid the ultimate price that you may LIVE...FREE in Christ Jesus!!!!! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I moved this topic from the seeker's area to the doctrinal area, for several reasons. The seeker's area has a very specific purpose of preaching the gospel, and that area is open to people who do not have full access status to post in other areas. This topic, while containing a lot of gospel elements, is also about other issues of doctrine. The original poster in this thread, now has sufficient status as a member here, to continue the dialogue in this area, if desired. Posts in the seekers area, are extra work for the staff, as each post is approved for publication, in this doctrinal area, we normally only intervene if we want to interacts as participants in the discussion, or are alerted to some problems which need to be addressed. So, everyone, feel free to continue the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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