The Torah tells us Jesus is not the Messiah it prophesies?

[soonsister]

Did my request shut down the discussion?

[Zach]

6 hours ago, soonsister said:

Of course it is important. The virgin birth is the key factor in the presence of the son of man, the son of God, being born into the world to forgive sins as he did when he was here. And to take the worlds sins upon himself on the cross.

 

Otherwise as has already been stated, Jesus would have been born in sin because his mother conceived him as a fallen woman who was in sin. Which means Jesus would have needed a savior.

I see you are newer than me here, so I'll take it easy. Look, you are espousing a doctrine you were taught by some Church, in others words they told you "how" certain scriptures are to be interpreted. I don't judge you for it or declare you to be wrong. I just encourage you to  realize there is more than one acceptable way to interpret a number of passages and to keep the minors the minors and the major the majors.

[soonsister]

14 minutes ago, Zach said:

I see you are newer than me here, so I'll take it easy. Look, you are espousing a doctrine you were taught by some Church, in others words they told you "how" certain scriptures are to be interpreted. I don't judge you for it or declare you to be wrong. I just encourage you to  realize there is more than one acceptable way to interpret a number of passages and to keep the minors the minors and the major the majors.

You'll take it easy ? What does that mean?

[other one]

7 minutes ago, soonsister said:

You'll take it easy ? What does that mean?

Maybe if you'd been here as long as I have he'd be really mean and nasty...     we might enjoy that if the mods would leave us alone.

[soonsister]

I'm seriously wondering if I made a mistake seeking here.

[other one]

On 12/31/2016 at 3:48 PM, soonsister said:

I'm a member of a bible study group that I joined last month. Someone in the group received an email that concerned them and I must admit in reading it, this three year baby Christian was heart broken.
Can anyone help explain how the Torah's description of the Messiah that does not match the history of Jesus still allows for Jesus to be Messiah?

The Jews & the Messiah
http://www.northforest.org/BibleTopics/JewsMessiah.html

I hope that's allowed to post so you can understand the article that broke my heart. And caused me to seek a forum that would be able to help me. Thank you for any and all assistance and sincere replies.
 

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread because it's usually a drawn out mess every time the question comes up, but since it's gone messy let me just put my thoughts into it.

It is hard to separate the first and second coming of Jesus just using the the first five books of the Bible.    And those during Jesus time were basically looking for someone that would fulfill the second coming.   They were looking for  a king that would kick butt and drive out all the oppressors of the Jewish nation....

Unfortunately for them, Jesus didn't come to be thier messiah at that time although he would have been so if they had accepted him as such....   but it wasn't meant to be....   Jesus came the first time as the savior of the world, not just the King of Israel.    There will be some here that will disagree with that, but thinking in this fashion keeps my sanity.   

He will be back in a few years and actually fulfill what the Jewish people of the time of Christ were looking for......   they will also understand just how badly they screwed up the first time he came.

[angels4u]

7 hours ago, soonsister said:

I have arrived at the conclusion due to explicit evidence in their own words that we're not dealing with an argument that holds theology at a premium. Nor salvation. Nor Jesus Christ.

I started this discussion to seek clarity on Messiah scriptures in the old testament. I'd appreciate it if everyone would proceed in that vein. And kindly ignore the intention of Zach who intends to dismiss the importance and the origin  of Christ himself.

Thank you.

1

Quote

I started this discussion to seek clarity on Messiah scriptures in the old testament. I'd appreciate it if everyone would proceed in that vein. And kindly ignore the intention of Zach who intends to dismiss the importance and the origin  of Christ himself.

 

 

You're right Soon , its all about Jesus Christ, the Messiah who would come to save  us fro our sins, and He did come and He's about to come back! There is that red invisible line which goes through the O.T. pointing us to Jesus!

Jesus the Son of God is God and He will make all things new, Jesus, Jesus,Jesus~~

Ephesians 4:14

 

As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

Jesus ~Emmanuel ~God with us..

Hallelujah what a Savior!

[soonsister]

11 minutes ago, other one said:

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread because it's usually a drawn out mess every time the question comes up, but since it's gone messy let me just put my thoughts into it.

It is hard to separate the first and second coming of Jesus just using the the first five books of the Bible.    And those during Jesus time were basically looking for someone that would fulfill the second coming.   They were looking for  a king that would kick butt and drive out all the oppressors of the Jewish nation....

Unfortunately for them, Jesus didn't come to be thier messiah at that time although he would have been so if they had accepted him as such....   but it wasn't meant to be....   Jesus came the first time as the savior of the world, not just the King of Israel.    There will be some here that will disagree with that, but thinking in this fashion keeps my sanity.   

He will be back in a few years and actually fulfill what the Jewish people of the time of Christ were looking for......   they will also understand just how badly they screwed up the first time he came.

I happened on a website sponsored by a messianic who claims the virgin birth is a pagan interpolation into the scriptures. And who in that regard denies the annunciation.

I think that combined with other resources that attempt to incorporate the discipline of Lexicography so as to say the Matthew translation is a misinterpretation of Isaiah 7  make for the confusion I encountered in the article.

I think what is concerning is that the article I posted attempts to say that Jesus was not Messiah. And it says that he was just a man born of a woman.

Which unfortunately, is what is being argued here  by some.

Because if Jesus was born to take the sins of the world upon himself, I have to wonder how a sinner would be anointed to do that? And by God who's grace toward the worlds sinners began the entire thing.

It appears as if we discount one factor in the study of soterology,that is Jesus' divinity, we have to then question all of it. And if a mere man was who Jesus was, then we're all living a lie in faith.

Though that would go a long way to explain that school of thought that argues God's grace is impermanent. And that we have to work to do good to find ourselves approved by God so as to enter his grace after life.

As I said, I'm here to find the truth. Or at least learn what the scriptures truly mean to say. I appreciate your input in that regard. Thank you.

 

[angels4u]

6 minutes ago, soonsister said:

I happened on a website sponsored by a messianic who claims the virgin birth is a pagan interpolation into the scriptures. And who in that regard denies the annunciation.

I think that combined with other resources that attempt to incorporate the discipline of Lexicography so as to say the Matthew translation is a misinterpretation of Isaiah 7  make for the confusion I encountered in the article.

I think what is concerning is that the article I posted attempts to say that Jesus was not Messiah. And it says that he was just a man born of a woman.

Which unfortunately, is what is being argued here  by some.

Because if Jesus was born to take the sins of the world upon himself, I have to wonder how a sinner would be anointed to do that? And by God who's grace toward the worlds sinners began the entire thing.

It appears as if we discount one factor in the study of soterology,that is Jesus' divinity, we have to then question all of it. And if a mere man was who Jesus was, then we're all living a lie in faith.

Though that would go a long way to explain that school of thought that argues God's grace is impermanent. And that we have to work to do good to find ourselves approved by God so as to enter his grace after life.

As I said, I'm here to find the truth. Or at least learn what the scriptures truly mean to say. I appreciate your input in that regard. Thank you.

 

 

Quote

I happened on a website sponsored by a messianic who claims the virgin birth is a pagan interpolation into the scriptures. And who in that regard denies the annunciation.

 

And that website is teaching false teaching,  why not read the N.T. since that's the Word of God?

[soonsister]

1 minute ago, angels4u said:

And that website is teaching false teaching,  why not read the N.T. since that's the Word of God?

Oh, I have. In the first post I stated I am a member of a bible study group. A member received the article I linked in an email because they're involved in many study groups concerning scripture apparently. And that is what caused concern. The contents of the article. Because we're suppose to be of a faith that is rooted in the Hebrew scriptures concerning God and Messiah.

That's why I was looking for input on certain key points brought forth in this discussion by others. Including the  claim that Jesus was born of an unclean woman and that he was a sinner at birth.