Just Pondering

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, 1x1is1 said:

That sounds wrong . . . . . .  I know that it does not matter to us who will be Raptured,  I should have said . . . I know that to us who are Raptured.     

The timing of the rapture is not a salvation issue. And who will be raptured is between the person and God.

[Spock]

Don't focus so much attention on America, but rather focus it on ISRAEL.  THEY ARE gods timetable, not America. 

Hint:  imo, you should Be looking for a 7 year peace treaty/covenant. 

[OneLight]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I didn't post anything about the specific time of the rapture.He said that it looks like it is very near and I totally agreed. And sticking with the rapture theme I only said what is fact. That many deny the pre-tribulation rapture.

By adding in "that many deny the pre-tribulation rapture", you did set a time to "pre-tribulation", and a challenge to those who do not believe like you do.  This is what I was talking about.

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

That could be a reason to explain the instant disappearance of many. Or a UFO instance. But we do not know and we will never know because we will be gone. I think that Israel is the only major player in the Tribulation.

Hi Missmuffet,

Yeah, I agree, as a pre-tribulation believer we will not be here to witness it here on earth. But... We should be seeing all the signs coming about increasing in frequency and intensity (birth pangs) if we're near the tribulation. Do we see ALL the signs coming together as we speak? If you own a 'bippy' you best bet on it :-) 

Unscientific polls have been taken in churches and Christian gatherings / conferences, and a survey question was asked. By a show of hands, how many people here have seen a UFO or had a UFO / alien experience. Each time from this unscientific informal poll, 5 - 30 percent raised their hands. I believe that's close to official secular polls taken on the subject.

Since we're on the subject, has anyone here seen what they consider a UFO? 

[OneLight]

7 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Missmuffet,

Yeah, I agree, as a pre-tribulation believer we will not be here to witness it here on earth. But... We should be seeing all the signs coming about increasing in frequency and intensity (birth pangs) if we're near the tribulation. Do we see ALL the signs coming together as we speak? If you own a 'bippy' you best bet on it :-) 

Unscientific polls have been taken in churches and Christian gatherings / conferences, and a survey question was asked. By a show of hands, how many people here have seen a UFO or had a UFO / alien experience. Each time from this unscientific informal poll, 5 - 30 percent raised their hands. I believe that's close to official secular polls taken on the subject.

Since we're on the subject, has anyone here seen what they consider a UFO? 

It is interesting that you claim you believe the rapture will be before the tribulation when in the third post you said we will be taken away when the Restrainer is taken away.  That is mid tribulation, in the middle of the 7 years, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation period, the last 3 1/2 years.

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, 1x1is1 said:

One thing for sure, the United States is not a major player after the Rapture.

Yeah! With the multitude of nations and peoples listed participating in end-time events, you would think a world superpower would be tucked in there somewhere? So, that can lead to only three conclusions:

(1) The United States stays neutral and on the sidelines and doesn't get involved. Or...

(2) Is unable, incapable or not here to get involved.

(3) Is part of one of the kingdoms or end-time federations.

Given our historical and current relationship of getting deeply involved in every nation's affairs on earth and playing the world's police force. Our Sodom and Gomorrah legalized practices, our pagan practices of sacrificing tens of millions of our children, and our unpayable astronomical debt, both personal and national...  I lean toward #2.

[Dennis1209]

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

It is interesting that you claim you believe the rapture will be before the tribulation when in the third post you said we will be taken away when the Restrainer is taken away.  That is mid tribulation, in the middle of the 7 years, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation period, the last 3 1/2 years.

It's interesting to me you didn't read the very first sentence of post #3 when I corrected myself.

Who is restraining unrestricted evil and demonic forces currently? The church is. Why? Because the Holy Spirit indwells in us as Christians. It's my pre-tribulation belief, that during the Rapture the Holy Spirit (the restrainer) is also taken away, clearing the way for unrestricted evil and deception. Though not completely, as earth dwellers will still have the opportunity to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior. 

[OneLight]

8 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

It's interesting to me you didn't read the very first sentence of post #3 when I corrected myself.

Who is restraining unrestricted evil and demonic forces currently? The church is. Why? Because the Holy Spirit indwells in us as Christians. It's my pre-tribulation belief, that during the Rapture the Holy Spirit (the restrainer) is also taken away, clearing the way for unrestricted evil and deception. Though not completely, as earth dwellers will still have the opportunity to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior. 

The verse states:

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

Are you saying that the singular "He" mentioned is the church?  He is singular, not plural.  This is one entity, not a group of people.

Nowhere in scripture does it say the Holy Spirit will not continue to operate after the rapture.  That is a doctrine man has "concluded" without scriptural backup, an assumption created by the phrase "is taken out of the way".   If the Holy Spirit were removed, who will change the hearts of those who were left behind, those who refuse the mark and follow Christ?  Man cannot do this by themselves.  Only the work of the Holy Spirit in a person can a person accept Christ and be saved.

Even in your statement, you are pointing to the second half of the 7 years, not before the 7 years, which places your timeline at the middle of the 7 years.  How can you proclaim it is before the 7 years when you use scripture that speaks of the beginning of the Great Tribulation, which begins the second half of the time frame?

[Daniel 11:36]

"(2) Is unable, incapable or not here to get involved.'

 

This is the answer

The USA will be taken out at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation [Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 18:1-21]

..... then the rest of humanity will be subjected to the balance of the tribulation

One must know that the sequences of the book are layered and repetative giving more details as the narrative moves forward

 

 

[missmuffet]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

By adding in "that many deny the pre-tribulation rapture", you did set a time to "pre-tribulation", and a challenge to those who do not believe like you do.  This is what I was talking about.

Pre tribulation is not date setting. That is what we are supposed to stay away from. Such as saying September 15th will be the rapture. It is not a challenge. The Bible teaches a pretribulation rapture. Especially if a person reads Scripture literally.