Faith, Works and Grace

[Willa]

Grace is unearned favor.  It is because of God's unearned favor and compassion for us that He has given us saving faith in His word.  So Noah and Abraham did not have God' written word.  They had His voice speaking to the to go build and arc, and to take Isaac your son and sacrifice him on this mountain.   And they trusted God's character.  They believed that God is faithful to His word and cannot lie. .  

Today we have received God's grace to believe His written word in the Bible.  And we also believe in His character that is revealed in the Bible.  We test it and find Him to be true to His word.  This is true saving faith.  But He also tests us to see if we will trust Him.  He made Abe wait till it was impossible for them to have children and then performed a miracle to produce Isaac.  So Abe knew by experience that God is faithful and will keep His word.  But by making him wait, God was testing Abe and stretching his faith.  

Relationships are built on mutual trust, and we form a relationship with God.  We can trust God's love for us because He demonstrated His love by giving Jesus to die for us while we were yet sinners.  We didn't have to be good enough first.  But we did have to turn from loving sin to being sick of it and coming to Him for forgiveness and cleansing.  That is repentance and it is a work grace wrought by the Holy Spirit.  Then when we receive Christ as God with us in human flesh, we are born by the Spirit into God's family.  He comes to live in us.  All of this is God's unearned favor--grace.  It is a free gift.  

The words believe and faith are the same Greek words but one is a name, a noun, and one is an action verb.  The way Christians use the word is different than the way unbelievers use it.  To them it is to learn head knowledge about a dead person.  To Christians it is surrendering to a living Christ to move into us and direct our lives.  So it is confusing when we use the words faith and believe since they are essentially the same word that means something different to different people.  To us faith is something that is alive.  To believe means to act upon our faith in a living God and allow Him to live through us.  Jesus in us will produce changes in our attitudes and will give us love to reach out to anyone in need.  He in us will see others as either believers who need love, or as unbelievers who need love and need Jesus in their lives.

Our pastor says he meets opposition from the enemy whenever he is preparing a sermon. and especially on the way to church.  It may be a flat tire or it may be arguments in the car.  Anything to distract him from the work God had prepared for him to do.  So he has grown to expect it.  Peter has a lot to say about trials.

1Pe 1:5 NKJV who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1Pe 1:6  In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 1Pe 1:7  that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

1Pe 4:1  Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 1Pe 4:2  that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 1Pe 4:13  but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.

Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, Jas 1:3  knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

[tinyprayers]

On 2/15/2017 at 8:23 PM, notsolostsoul said:

If Grace has no basis in works, then why is Faith without Works dead? Then what is the point of doing work?

Think of false advertising.

Christian is suppose to mean that the Christian is like Christ in mind and heart. Compassionate, empathetic, kind. Kind is a big one.  And open hearted toward those the world would turn away from. Just as many did turn away from those whom Jesus turned to. And remember he was chastised by his own apostles for doing that sometimes.

If we're claiming to be like Jesus how can we be any different than he was in our capacity to demonstrate his graceful demeanor toward people?
What's it say if I have a sticker on my jeep that reads, Christian!

And yet I flip someone off in traffic. Ignore the hungry person living in filthy clothes begging for coins at the stop sign that's at the exit of a mega-mall I'm leaving. How do I represent Christ if not by how I act? Which is what is called works.

 

[Jeff2]

There are many approaches to faith and works, many of which tend to pit James against Paul. I believe that the emphasis of either/or creates a false dilemma. On one end we have Paul urging us to avoid "earning" or own salvation; on the other, we have James stating that a fruitless faith is no saving faith at all. They are not opposed to each other, but both are speaking the truth.

 

John 15:4-6  Genuine saving faith always results in fruit.

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: For without me ye can do nothing."
 

God works in and through us; we get rewarded for being His means.

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation."

What "good"? Not merit, but a reward for having "done good." The source? Being in the Vine (Christ). John 5:28-29

Paul includes both is we do not make the error of ripping it out of context. Many quote Ephesians 2:8-9 , which states, "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Yet leaving off verse 10, making Paul contradict James. But Paul continues...  "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

We are Christ's workmanship, similar to John 15 where we are in the Vine. The Cause is Christ working in and through us, the result is good fruit.

[Reinitin]

On 2/15/2017 at 7:23 PM, notsolostsoul said:

If Grace has no basis in works, then why is Faith without Works dead? Then what is the point of doing work?

Hebrews 11:1Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Heroes of Faith

11 Now faith is the reality[a] of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen.

Footnotes:

Hebrews 11:1 Or assurance

Hebrews 11:1 Or conviction

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make every grace overflow to you, so that in every way, always having everything you need, you may excel in every good work.

 

Matthew 5:16

¹⁶ In the same way, let your light shine^[a]before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

Footnotes:

1. Matthew 5:16 Or way, your light must shine

 

[ Praying in Jesus’ Name ] “I assure you: The one who believes in Me will also do the works that I do. And he will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

Romans 2:6

He will repay each one according to his works:

  

Around John 6:28 Jesus was asked 

What can we do to perform the works of God? Not a quote so read it. Jesus called believing in Him works. 

So i agree whole heartedly with james, faith is pretty much dead with out works.

without works in faith you haven't believed in Christ because Christ is the evidence of the unseen and believing in him is a work pleasing to God.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Reinitin
I had messed up the mathew paste

[Behold]

On 2/15/2017 at 7:23 PM, notsolostsoul said:

If Grace has no basis in works, then why is Faith without Works dead? Then what is the point of doing work?

"works" are "discipleship".

Discipleship is what follows salvation, not what activates it, achieves it, provides it, or maintains it..

You do "good works".....you are "careful to maintain good works" because you are now REPRESENTING GOD, as His 'Son of God".

Jesus went about "doing good works".....and WE, as "Son's of God", are to do the same because we ARE Sons of God.

So, behave accordingly = "works".

James, is referring to doing works so that others can see them....... You do works before man, but you offer Faith before God.

Faith, God accepts to SAVE YOU, but works God does not accept to save you.

"Works", "good works", in the sense of Christian Discipleship, are exactly like being in the Army and you march and you wear a uniform and you take orders.......Its what you do because you are IN the Army, but wearing the uniform or marching, (works) are useless unless you are signed up.

Salvation, is being "sign up", its being forgiven, its being redeemed.....and the official uniform you wear that designates you as "enlisted" in God's family.....is that you do good works.

its what you do.......but you are not doing them to BE saved......you are doing them because you ALREADY ARE SAVED.

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Behold

[Guest BacKaran]

Once I was born again, the Holy Spirit guided me as I am compelled by love in Christ to do that which is pleasing to Him akA good works.

It's not done out of duty because I have too or guilt or trying to get something in return from God.

Love in action is pleasing to God and I'm pleased to do whatever I'm asked in His name.

[Willa]

On 3/3/2017 at 4:57 AM, Salena said:

I can see what you are saying. I have been told that satan works harder when I am close to God .. so then the thought comes to mind .. okay so I'm fighting to have faith all the while fighting off satans attacks ... is it not easier to not do anything so that satan will leave you alone?

Try praising God in all circumstances.  Do it aloud if you can or under your breath if you must.  God is always worthy of our praise.  We can trust Him to use all things to work together for our good--He will be victorious and bring about the desired fruit it us.  God inhabits the praises of His people and this causes the enemy to flee.  Moreover, when you remember how great our God is, your faith is built up.  

[Mike 2]

On 2/15/2017 at 8:23 PM, notsolostsoul said:

If Grace has no basis in works, then why is Faith without Works dead? Then what is the point of doing work?

I think there can be even more clarity when we consider the context of this verse.

James is basically saying that talk is cheap. We all see people posting here that they "believe" in Jesus (God).

That is fine and well if you "have" Jesus (God).

We "have" Jesus (God) when we allow His Spirit into us and then as our Savior and LORD we turn to His Spirit in our thinking process (our spirit) for his guidance in the things we do .

That's how we (and others) can gauge if we just believe Jesus is real or actually have true faith, faith in his guidance and are trying to follow his lead.

When we do .....we see that evidence in the works we do because we are doing what Jesus does.....the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven.

James is saying if you're talking a lot about believing in Jesus but can't look back on your life and see a change in the selfless things you do, you just have a belief there is a Jesus (God) but no faith in him. If you're not seeing a change in the way you live your life you better be concerned about what it is you believe.

Jas 2:19  You believe that there is one God. That's fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear. 

The demons aren't saved and they believe in Jesus (God). Thing is......He's not the Lord they turn to for guidance.

Here's another good gauge;

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 
Gal 5:23  gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. 

These will be evident and increasing in faithful works. It happens when you have faith / trust in the Lord.

I'm not saying that if you aren't producing any good works you aren't saved. That could happen

But I am pretty sure James is saying you better be thinking about what it is you do believe if you're not.

Lots of good stuff in this thread.

 

blessings

Mike2

PS someone earlier mentioned that sometimes they wondered whether doing the works was worth it.

We don't do these works with the thoughts of any benefit to ourselves, it is ALWAYS for the benefit of others.

We do these things for the glory of God...is it worth it? I hope when I step into the next life I start bumping into a whole wack of people saying...'hey remember that thing you did that you thought was worthless, well.....'

Who knows what God can do for others through us.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Mike 2

[Riccardo]

Your works reflect your faith, do you not understand this concept?

[lemurchampagne]

On 2/15/2017 at 8:23 PM, notsolostsoul said:

If Grace has no basis in works, then why is Faith without Works dead? Then what is the point of doing work?

Hey, that's a great question right? 

I think when we're told grace has no basis in works it means we can't work hard enough to get God to notice us and then say, hey, I'll give you salvation because you busted your back hard enough to earn it. 

Instead, God's grace extends to the whole world as an invitation to redeem ourselves, save ourselves, from that human nature he gave us in the first place to be born into a world that for all appearances seems like all there is. 

And then when we get old enough to decide for ourselves how we'll behave, knowing right from wrong as was instilled in us by whomever raised us, then we're responsible for those choices. Those actions. And that's when that worldly nature becomes an issue because we can start to follow our carnal side. God knows that. That's why he decided to give us a little insight that says, no, this world isn't all there is. And that, if it feels good go for it, attitude doesn't really get you anywhere good. 
That's why he was gracious enough to send himself to us in a form we could relate to. Jesus Christ. He was a human baby, a little boy, a grown man. He grew up among people who grew to know him and trust him. 

But inside he had the connection to God that let him do things we can't do. Like heal people, and cast out devils and things. And then God let him die on the cross. And in doing that Jesus the man showed us that the flesh does die to the sins of the world, because the Hebrew court said he was guilty of bad prideful things like blasphemy when he said he was the son of God. Which was true but the court guys didn't want to hear that so they asked Pilate to execute Jesus and shut him up.  

And they did. Jesus died on the cross like all the people in the area would have been familiar with being crucifixion was a favorite torture capital punishment method for the Romans. It sent a hateful message that if you disobeyed Rome's laws you would die just like that. Slow, suffering, excruciating pain. And they whipped the dickens out of Jesus before they nailed him to the cross. So he was ripped up and ripped open in places when he was hanging up there. 

But he did it because God used that as an example to the Jews that were still in the sacrificial system. Kill unblemished animals as blood payment to repay their wrongs against the law of God. Jesus was the last sacrifice for that kind of thing. He was what they call the pure unblemished lamb. And he took all the worlds sins on himself. He wasn't to serve like an Ox would. Killed to take the sins of one family away. Jesus was sacrificed as the lamb that assumed all sins everywhere forever. 

And that was by the good will of his father God. Animals weren't to be slaughtered to pay the debt for wrong doing anymore. Believing in Jesus taking on the sins we'd commit as people for all time takes away our sins forever. 

To summarize, the good will of God sent himself as Jesus, Yeshua, to die as the blood payment for all wrong doing any human anywhere on earth would commit any time at all forever. That payment was paid in full on the cross and all the sinner who has huge debt for living in the world the worldly way has to do is believe Jesus loved them enough to wash them clean of their old self, so as to let them be re-born in the spirit , not this world like the first time, and have their slate wiped clean. 

Now they're a newborn again. That happens when you're baptized. It's a symbolic ritual type thing that imitates the whole sacrificial system Jesus underwent on the cross. He died with the worlds sins upon himself. When we're dunked under the water that's like unto Jesus in that we're dying with the sins of our own life on us. 
Then he was raised up, when after three days in the tomb what would have typically been a dead man dead always instead walked out of the tomb reborn anew, the scars of the torture and scourging healed, as a new spiritual man. 
When we rise up out of the baptismal water we're washed clean by that water that is symbolic of the blood Jesus shed to cleanse us of our old ways. And then we're new and aware of all that transpired in Christ so that we could start over as better people. Filled with the holy spirit of God to guide us through this world. Which we didn't have before when we were just part of this world thinking it was all there is. 

That's maybe not a good way to describe the whole thing but, you can't work to get saved. Jesus did the work for you on the cross. And he accomplished that because the first thing that preceded that was God's good will made that bargain with the world. He sacrificed his son so that whoever believed that Jesus paid their sin debt, because all Jews back then knew about sin and debt for bad behaviors, would be freed of the debt and reborn anew. And that's where the work comes in. Because now when you're new and cleansed of the debt you did owe you can go forward and live like Christ did being he was not just flesh and blood but he was filled with the holiness of God's spirit. And that means to be charitable, kind, not egotistical, not self-absorbed like before thinking this life is everything and the only thing so get yours while you can. 
Instead, the holy spirit of God that comes into you at baptism is that helper Jesus talked about. The helper that guides your steps. That little voice some call intuition. That leads you to do the right thing. To be kind, to be open hearted, to love people because all people are just like you were before you got a purpose. 

 

Faith in what Jesus did on the cross doesn't mean much if you don't change how you acted when you weren't saved from that old way after you accept Jesus. His sacrifice on behalf of bettering your life as a new person who now lives for God with Christ in the forefront and God's spirit inside you leading the way, honors what God thought you deserved when he gave his only son to die for you. 

It's weird to say, I accept Jesus as my savior, and that's it. Think about what Jesus did as Jesus himself. He wasn't snooty. He wasn't stuck-up. And he had all the power of the universe at his fingertips. He could do anything. He was royalty for goodness sake. But what did he example ? And what is the testimony of that by those who wrote of it so we'd have it for all time? He got in the trenches with the worst kind of sinners, law breakers, bad people. He sought them out. He didn't sit on a throne and wait for them to come to him. He went to them because like he said, he didn't come here to die for the righteous. He came here to be an example to and die for the lost people who didn't have any destiny but to die without God and then enter the void for eternity. That's boring huh? 

SO there you have it. Faith without acting like Jesus did, giving to people, being kind, being charitable, being a good person, doesn't mean a lot. You can't earn it, all you have to do is believe in Jesus. Then get baptized so you can wash away that old self and rise up new in the whole spirit of the message Jesus died to deliver. And then, when God's holy spirit is sealed inside you now, it's easy to want to be a good person and help people. Because when you do that you're delivering the gospel of Jesus to those you help. And then they ask you, what's gotten into you? And you can tell them. JESUS!

We can live the new testament by being a whole new us.  

I love it. It's fun.

Hope that answers your question notsolostsoul. And you know, you're not a lost soul as long as you're breathing and have a chance to accept Jesus. Then you're a saved soul. That's much better than lost I think.