Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[BobRyan]

15 hours ago, OneLight said:

Revelations proves it.  Revelation 8:1-6

When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.  And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.  Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.  And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.  Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.

So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Notice that the introduction of the trumpets are after the seventh seal is opened.  Verse 6 comes after verses 1 through 5. 

Each of the sequences of 7 are self contained and cannot be assumed to have been jump-started by the previous chapters . Would have to prove it in each of the cases.

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Just not scriptural, you are on this Muslim kick, and you are just way off base. The Little Horn arises from Greece via the European Union.  

I am on a Muslim kick, because the land areas of the previous empires, Babylon, Medo-persia, etc, are all around Israel (among other places). This is one common ground of all the empires shown in Daniel 2: they all controlled all the area of Israel and the surrounding nations. And I disagree: I don't think he will "destroy" all other religions. When He begins to deceive the world with false miracles, all those who were Buddhists will BECOME his followers. Same with all the false religions of today. These old false religions (old when the Beast comes on the scene) will not be destroyed, they will just become obsolete. Someone may say, "I used to be a Buddhist, but now I see the real god," and they will worship the Beast. I don't think it makes any difference where he was born. 

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Wrong........we have been down this road before and you was wrong then and you are still wrong and will be wrong until you understand the passage. Your not understanding the passage doesn't change Gods truths.

You can make any verse say anything if you are willing to pull it out of its context.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Giller said:

I would have to disagree, there are 3 topics here, 2 that concerns the Antichrist, and one that concerns the woman.

And you just have to go to the description of who the woman is, to know that it is referring to Catholicism, with it's colors of purple and scarlet, the golden cup, the woman being drunk with the blood of the martyrs.

And which one would most likely fit with the description of a women? It would be Catholicism which they worship a woman and call her the queen of heaven, just like the Babylonians called Semiramis the queen of heaven.

Did you miss the part where the angel said he would explain the woman and the Beast? He explains the woman in the last verse of chapter 17: she is "that great city." What city? John tells us in another place that the "great city" is Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified. Sorry, but Revelation is not about the Vatican. Neither is the Beast about the Vatican.

Of course, you can continue to think what you think: it is not a critical thing.

By the way, the number of martyrs by the Catholic church will pale into insignificance when compared to what the Beast will do when people refuse his mark....IMHO

Edited May 31, 2017 by iamlamad

[wingnut-]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No. There are many things not written in scripture.

 

I'm only aware of two in regards to this topic, what Daniel was told to seal up, and what John was told to seal up in regards to what the seven thunders said.  The rest of the answers are found in scripture.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

But Jesus has never said how long it will take Him to get from heaven to earth.

 

He didn't say how long I agree, but He did say that everyone would see Him coming, not that everyone would seem Him appear.  Coming means in the act, appearing would just be an arrival.

 

Matthew 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

The sign comes first, that is in regards to the sun, moon, and stars as described in the previous verse.  Then the inhabitants of the earth mourn when all the lights go out, and see Him coming with power and great glory.  They'll see Him because He will be the only light as he approaches, and suddenly appearing doesn't really display power and great glory does it?  It may not seem like much, but I think it's an important distinction.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Hundreds of people have been taken to heaven and allowed to return and tell us their testimonies.

 

I'm not sure where you get this from, scripture doesn't tell of hundreds, but a few.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He is in the clouds and we will be in the clouds. From there we go to heaven. (John 14)

 

The verse from I Thessalonians says we meet the Lord in the air, it says nothing about going beyond the clouds.  So let me point out to you something very important from John 14 that you seem to be overlooking.

 

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

 

Where is He coming to again?  The earth.  We meet Him on His way and since we will forever be with Him, we are coming right back down.  Only the deceased and the angels will follow Him out of heaven.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is very simple: some people have on preconceived glasses and see all scripture through those glasses.

 

Agreed, it is the false theology the church in the western nations have been spreading for the last several hundred years.  I believed it for the majority of my life as well for that very reason, because it was all I heard and I never bothered to dig deeper for myself and just accepted someone else's version.  Once I prayed and asked the Lord for understanding things have become perfectly clear.  No more jumping through hoops, it is fairly simple.  I pray my brothers and sisters would do the same so they are prepared for what is coming.

God bless

[Bill16652]

On 3/4/2017 at 11:20 AM, Ezra said:

"Could the antichrist be a Muslim?"

No. He must be a renegade Jew, since he will have access to the Temple in Jerusalem, and will also claim to be the "true" Jewish Messiah.  Please note carefully:

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (Daniel 11:37).

The "God of his fathers" is none other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and this man, being a Jew, will blaspheme God and oppose Christ -- hence the word Antichrist (Greek antichristos = opposed to and also in place of Christ).A Syrian Jew (lapsed) possibly with a Muslim background as well

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Giller said:

it is very important that when we study prophecy, that we read the context of what it is about.

Here is the beginning of Chapter 17.

Rev 17:1-2
(1)  And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
(2)  With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
 

So God is going to reveal the Judgment of the great whore some time in this chapter.

Now let us go on.

Rev 17:3-6
(3)  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
(4)  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
(5)  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(6)  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 So from verses 3 to 6, it tells us something about the woman, it is giving a description of her.

Rev 17:7
(7)  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

 Then it tells us the mystery of the woman, and of the beast.

Rev 17:9-11
(9)  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10)  And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
(11)  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
 

Then here it gives additional description ofthe woman, and were she is seated, and also it gives us a description of the beast, and were he is of, in some form.

Then later we get to the judgment of the whore.

Rev 17:15-18
(15)  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
(16)  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
(17)  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
(18)  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

That is the context.

Note: not necessarily in THIS chapter: chapters were added later.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

 

I'm only aware of two in regards to this topic, what Daniel was told to seal up, and what John was told to seal up in regards to what the seven thunders said.  The rest of the answers are found in scripture.

He didn't say how long I agree, but He did say that everyone would see Him coming, not that everyone would seem Him appear.  Coming means in the act, appearing would just be an arrival.

Matthew 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The sign comes first, that is in regards to the sun, moon, and stars as described in the previous verse.  Then the inhabitants of the earth mourn when all the lights go out, and see Him coming with power and great glory.  They'll see Him because He will be the only light as he approaches, and suddenly appearing doesn't really display power and great glory does it?  It may not seem like much, but I think it's an important distinction.

I'm not sure where you get this from, scripture doesn't tell of hundreds, but a few.

The verse from I Thessalonians says we meet the Lord in the air, it says nothing about going beyond the clouds.  So let me point out to you something very important from John 14 that you seem to be overlooking.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Where is He coming to again?  The earth.  We meet Him on His way and since we will forever be with Him,we are coming right back down.  Only the deceased and the an gels will follow Him out of heaven.

Agreed, it is the false theology the church in the western nations have been spreading for the last several hundred years.  I believed it for the majority of my life as well for that very reason, because it was all I heard and I never bothered to dig deeper for myself and just accepted someone else's version.  Once I prayed and asked the Lord for understanding things have become perfectly clear.  No more jumping through hoops, it is fairly simple.  I pray my brothers and sisters would do the same so they are prepared for what is coming.

God bless

I was thinking about other things. It is not written where I should attend church, for example. And really, in our discussion of end times, John gave us just the barest outline. There will be much to learn when we get there. For example, John only gave a vague hint of what this book with seals really is.

Yes, indeed, when He comes as in Revelation 19, every eye will see Him. How? That is another thing John never mentioned. But His coming there will be coming in POWER. And the armies of heaven will come with Him. It just does not sound like the same coming that Paul talks about in 1 Thes 4. In fact, it cannot be the same, for the timing is wrong. His coming in Rev. 19 simply does not fit 1 Thes. 5.

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven"   My guess is (John does not tell us) this will be His brightness lighting up a dark sky, as lightning does. Again, John does not tell us.

You mention the signs in the sun and moon. Again I see TWO different signs. In the first, as seen in Joel 2 and at the 6th seal, the sun turns dark and the moon into blood. At another time, another sign given, as shown in Joel 3 and Matthew 24, both the sun and moon are darkened. Of course they are dark, for God brings total darkness to earth for some unknown period of time.

I have book after book written by people who have been taken to either heaven or hell. I have several of those who went to heaven. I know a man who went to hell. I have done electrical work in his house. He too has a book. I was not talking about the bible here. When personal testimony fits with the bible, I choose to believe it.

"we are coming right back down. "  Where do you get this from?  It does not say anything like this in 1 Thes. (your argument reversed). No single scripture should be taken of itself; we put ALL the end times scriptures together. I think John 14 FITS with 1 Thes 4.

OF COURSE He is coming again! How can He come to the clouds if He does not "come?"  Paul wrote, " unto the coming of the Lord." so John 14 fits like a hand in a glove with 1 Thes.

"Where is He coming to again?  The earth."  He is coming to the air in 1 thes. 4. He is returning to heaven in John 14. He does not touch down His coming with the armies of heaven as shown in Revelation 19. Sorry, ONE coming will not fit every coming scripture.

"we are coming right back down"  You have zero scripture for that. You have no John ?? as an alternative to John 14.

 

Good luck with your belief. I fear you will be left behind.

[BobRyan]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You can make any verse say anything if you are willing to pull it out of its context.

This is why I prefer the more direct method - let the Bible define the symbols - like the beasts and the nations in Daniel 7 -- seen again in Rev 13 on the subject of the mark of the beast.

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. Your credentials are impeccable. What I suspect happened is you realized that in order to grow your congregation and the keep the funds rolling in, you would have to align yourself with current eschatology.

I don't "align myself" with anyone except the Holy Spirit, and I do not take a salary for preaching, I preach in many different places. I own three businesses and I don't need the money. Your tone sounds more akin to what Satan does to the brethren in heaven daily, The Accuser of the Brethren, not to what Jesus does daily, intercede for the Brethren.

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is generally the role of the pastor, to keep peace and assuage the low in heart. From the behavior you exhibit when challenged I would say you realize you have compromised and you just don't like someone pointing out the fact.

You seem bitter and jealous bordering on petty. You don't get prophecy, maybe you are called to something else, but instead of being the arm, you want to be the arm, leg and eyes. Even Jesus realized he had to target his ministry, to the Jews ONLY, the Lost Sheep of Israel ONLY.....I UNDERSTAND MY CALLING.....

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

This forum is set up the purpose of discussing the word of God necessitating the posting of copious scripture early and often. Your consistent refusal is telling and your 'cluttering' argument is weak.

 

You keep uttering the same drivel....I have posted my beliefs for all to see, you just can't grasp them it seems, or you are to bust accusing the brethren like above.

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

Further, your declaration, "The holy spirit said." Is refuted by the shaming behavior you engage in when challenged and the continual refusal to post even the simplest of verses or the barest of passages. Is this how the Holy Ghost leads? I doubt it. And not only that but I have brought up your insulting behaviour towards me several times and you ignore it. Is this how the Holy spirit leads you to interact with the members of the elect? Again, I think not.

 

So if you are off base and I tell you the truth, it is "Shameless behavior. That's probably just what the Pharisees thought about Jesus Christ, let that sink in. I am frank, not insulting. Jesus was frank likewise. I like being frank. What is insulting is your first sentence above.....I just tell the truth, I do not find you to have any understanding of prophecy, that's OK, not everyone is called to prophecy. I mean you don't understand that Rome is a Beast, and I am supposed to not just stop right there and say something is off kilter here?  And you wonder why.