Rev. 12: Heavenly Sign to appear in 2017 - What could it mean?

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GINOLJC, to all. read most of the post. interesting. but can I make a suggestion. consider this, Revelation chapter 12:1-12 is a past event. if one keep one hand on chapter 12 of Revelation and the other on Matthews chapter 2:1-8 one will see the revelation. 

 

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Pftt

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Just now, Blueyedjewel said:

Pftt

thanks for the response, but I'm new to the site, Pftt?

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Revelation Chapter 12 and Matthews chapter 2

*                                    Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12 
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Judah, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = the evil  person, the Representative  of a political power. king Herod
Red in this chapter is symbolic = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic). the 3rd that fell, or was gathered by the dragon tail
Sun = gospel
Moon = Mosaic Law

step by step analyzes of the chapter, verse by verse.

Verse 1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. 

A. Just because a vision is shown in heaven dose not mean that the vision took place in heaven. B. the woman is the remnant of Judah, the church in the wilderness, whom was never divorce by God only Israel the northern ten tribes. supportive scripture, Jeremiah 3:6-8 "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also". now Judah, Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away". here Judah was put away but not  divorce. yes, this woman is a church that was in the wilderness, the faithful remnant. supportive scripture showing a "church" in the wilderness, Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". there she is, "the church in the wilderness". so the nation of Israel had a church in her, and by representation of this woman she now gives birth to the age of grace. so the woman is checked off.

B. Clothed with the sun, which is God's Righteousness, the Gospel. the sun checked off.

C. the moon under her feet?, here, the moon is the Mosaic Law. let the bible interpreted itself. Proverb 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now this LIGHT at the woman feet, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet the woman feet. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon in nature, which is symbolized as the Mosaic Law, so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law itself. Israel walked by a dim light, but now, no more.  so we got the sun and the moon checked.

D. upon her head a crown of twelve stars. notice it said "A" crown, not 12 crowns, but one crown. crown here is symbolic of authority and stars are messengers, in this vision the stars/messengers are the one from this  remnant who will take the gospel, the good news to all the world.  so crown of twelve stars, checked off.

Verse #2. is self explanatory. next time verse #3.

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GINOLJC to all.

Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”.  as the woman appeared which was "GREAT" in wonder in verse 1, like wise this wonder appeared, but not "GREAT". the first wonder of the woman with child was good. but this wonder is evil as we will see. again just because a vision is seen in heaven, dose not mean it took place in heaven. 

A. a great red dragon. dragon here is symbolic of the evil one. who is working through a willing vessel and that vessel is none other that king Herod. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. this dragon is called red which is symbolic for blood. king Herod had much blood on his hands as we will see. let the bible interpreted itself. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. here king Herod had "blood" on his hands The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he ruled by. so clearly he is a bloody dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2.

B. This dragon is called “great” to which Herod is called the great. So without a doubt the red dragon here is none other than king Herod the great. 

C.seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head. This is the power or the seat of authority  behind king Herod the Roman empire. The beast Daniel saw in his night vision. 

Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”. 
This verse have been misunderstood for a long time, but now revealed. The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here are symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men, who hold the message of God. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of , of, of, heavenly stars. so, Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby Jesus, and slew all the other babies in  Bethlehem and the coast. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven.  drew here, is another word for "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together?. it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born
King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, draw together. lets pick up the account in the scriptures according to, Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part of stars/messengers. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4,  1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. 
see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”. Not one holy angels in heaven fell, but Lucifer only, not here in this account. let God word prove without a doubt that these stars here in chapter 12 are men, and not angels as many believe. everyone one knows that an apostle called a messenger.it's the Hebrew word G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos. let's also see this word messenger identified as "stars". Jude1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever". 

who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. so who are they, men or angels?. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. now verse 11, these same men are describe again, "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core". now the identifying verse of these men one more time, "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever". 
these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". so as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven. “and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men". So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS.

so we have the bloody red great dragon, king Herod, checked. how he "drew" the 3rd of messengers with his tail. and tried to devour /kill the baby Jesus. all checked in Matthews chapter 2.

next time verse 5. 

[fixerupper]

I read up to here....

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here king Herod had "blood" on his hands The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he ruled by. so clearly he is a bloody dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2.

B. This dragon is called “great” to which Herod is called the great. So without a doubt the red dragon here is none other than king Herod the great. 

C.seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head. This is the power or the seat of authority  behind king Herod the Roman empire. The beast Daniel saw in his night vision. ...

....and then gave up.

What is it about Christians who believe they can interpret things John wrote and prophesied in 90-95 AD, but occured prior to that!  Herod the Great died four years after Christ was born.  This just isn't right.  There are some rules to abtaining truth.  There are METHODS of interpretation that are absolutes that MUST be employed because if you don't, you are making John and Daniel false prophets, and ultimately debunking the divine inspiration of the bible.  A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed.  Atheism knows, but Christians just disregard it.  The most accepted interpretation of Daniel 7 is, "the lion is Babylon.  That "DEBUNKS" Daniel as a true prophet of God and ultimately the bible because Babylon had risen some 50 years before Daniel prophesied it.  

But Christians just don't care.  

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68 days  and those signs will be in the sky.

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5 hours ago, fixerupper said:

I read up to here....

....and then gave up.

What is it about Christians who believe they can interpret things John wrote and prophesied in 90-95 AD, but occured prior to that!  Herod the Great died four years after Christ was born.  This just isn't right.  There are some rules to abtaining truth.  There are METHODS of interpretation that are absolutes that MUST be employed because if you don't, you are making John and Daniel false prophets, and ultimately debunking the divine inspiration of the bible.  A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed.  Atheism knows, but Christians just disregard it.  The most accepted interpretation of Daniel 7 is, "the lion is Babylon.  That "DEBUNKS" Daniel as a true prophet of God and ultimately the bible because Babylon had risen some 50 years before Daniel prophesied it. the bible.  

But Christians just don't care.  

GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. second, what was interpret ?.  scripture was given for every event. there is no personal interpretation, if so please point it out.  you said, "Herod the Great died four years after Christ was born. This just isn't right". what's not right?.  third as for  John and Daniel they are certified. fourth, you said, "A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed". I'll let the bible speak, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" this is a "REVELATION" a disclosure of the Lord Jesus the Christ. and John was told to write the thing that "WAS" meaning past, scripture, Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter". here John was to write the things he "saw", read that verse again. so I strongly dismiss your claim . fifth, U said, "A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed". God do it all the time, especially his reminding them of their captivity. Prophecy, Prophesy, Prophesying signifies the speaking forth of the mind and counsel of God. it;s just not only about future events. let the bible prove you in error. as you know that Jonah was a prophet... right. let's see what he did. Jonah was sent to Nineveh to do what? let the bible speak. Jonah 3:1-3 "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey". did you see what Jonah did now? PREACHED. prophet preached, just like John the Baptist. so that premise is also corrected.

I suggest you might want to re-read Revelation chapter 12, or maybe the whole book again. but in fair defense, if you see chapter 12 differently, please post your beliefs so that we can examine your point of view.

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Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

A. "she brought forth a man child". OT, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". NT, Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins".

B. "he is the Ruler of all Nations". Rule here is to  shepherd, or feed sheep. it's the Greek word,        G4165 ποιμαίνω poimaino (poi-mai'-nō) v.
1. to tend as a shepherd of.
2. (by implication) to feed sheep.
3. (figuratively) to supervise, direct, and feed.

clearly this child, this son is the Lord Jesus who is the chief shepherd , the bishop of our souls.  supportive scripture, John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine". 1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls".

C. "Rod of Iron". a Rod is for correction, scripture, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (also see Ps 23:4 for correction). Iron is for unchanging, for God change not. Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever". 

D. "her child was caught up unto God and his throne". the Key word here is "child", and note the Greek word for a male child (son which is, G5207, huios). these two words alone gives us the revelation. but let the bible reveal itself. caught up means here in the chapter means "come in POWER, of the Spirit". Lets examine this word, G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pad'-zo) v.
1. to seize
{in various applications} 
[from a derivative of G138]
KJV: catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force) looking at the derivative below, now we can understand, G138 αἱρέομαι haireomai (hai-reh'-om-ai) (Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai hel'-lom-ai; which is otherwise obsolete) v.
1. to take for oneself, i.e. to prefer
[probably akin to G142]
KJV: choose 

Matthew 11:12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force". this is the exact same word used in Revelation 12:5  SEE ABOVE  G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo. I suggest one read John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, this commentary gives the clear meaning as how "suffereth violence" is rendered. it mans, "comes with force". in Power of the Spirit. just as our Lord, the son here was empowered, so are we. listen, Acts 1:4 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me". verse  8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth". his authority was from the "throne" of God. this is crystal clear.

that takes care of verse 5. as always, if anyone who have a different view please feel free to post your thoughts. again I say this vision of event John have already seen, meaning this is the complete Revelation of the Christ who is Jesus..   

[fixerupper]

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GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. second, what was interpret ?.  scripture was given for every event. there is no personal interpretation.

There is a method of interpretation that you and several others know nothing about. And your belief that "scripture was given for every event" makes no sense when it comes to good interpretation.  Take a look at the passage...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

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This is a "REVELATION" a disclosure of the Lord Jesus the Christ. and John was told to write the thing that "WAS" meaning past, scripture, Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter."

Keep in mind verse one said, "which must shortly come to pass;" The interlinear words it like this...

"To-SHOW to-THE SLAVES OF-Him what IS-binding TO-BE-BECOMING....

NOT A HINT OF ANYTHING PAST in verse 1.  BUT ALL FUTURE SINCE JOHN WAS TOLD, "things which must shortly come to pass;."

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Here John was to write the things he "saw", read that verse again. so I strongly dismiss your claim . fifth, U said, "A prophet cannot prophesy about something that already passed". God do it all the time, especially his reminding them of their captivity.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

You can't apply any of this to Herod.  John would have just been born in 4 AD when Herod died!  And that's NOT the time period the passage is refering to.  YOU READ IT AGAIN!  I think most bibles have this one a bit wrong.  This is how it's worded in the interlinear...

Write-you which you-perceived and which they-are and which is-about to-be-coming AFTER THESE.

Now look at what Vines says...

From the same root as eidon, "to see," is a perfect tense with a present meaning, signifying, primarily, "to have seen or perceived;" hence, "to know, to have knowledge of," whether absolutely, as in Divine knowledge.
So to help you out with this...

This is a tricky verse to get right.  It's easily misunderstood and I'm not sure any bible really has it right.  I'm not even sure I have it right. I'm about convinced most bibles don't have it right.  In my view far more English words are required to describe what's said in Greek.  

John is instructed to write what he perceived in 90 AD.   Vines isn't always right, but he said the word "eidon, "to see," is a perfect tense with a present meaning.

The interlinear, i.e. the Textus receptus, words it different...

Write-you which you-perceive and which they-are and which is-about to-be-coming AFTER THESE.  

"Write the things which thou hast seen" is misleading if you use it in the context outside of the vision like you do.
If anything, the things that John had seen was his prophecy to the seven churches in Chapter 2-3 which he was likely familiar with.  

And the things which are,...would be the throne of God etc. in chapter 4-5.

And the things which shall be hereafter;...

Hereafter what?  After John's prophecy of the seven churches AND his vision of the throne in heaven etc.  Hereafter begins in Chapter 6 whith the first seal. 

It could easily be understood like this and I think this may be close to right...

"Write what you perceived in the visions of things that are and are to come."

I'm kind of discouraged at arguing this and other things with people who just don't care about good hermeneutical ethics.  There are ways of figuring things out.  But you can't go around saying Revelation 12 is a prophecy about Herod the Great when it's clear this is in an end-time context.