Judah and Tamar

[HisFirst]

20 hours ago, Jayne said:

ANSWERS:

[4]  He had no intention of keeping that word when he promised Tamar his son Shelah.  In his mind, she was responsible for Er and Onan's deaths and he was going to chance it with a third and last son.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Jayne,

I haven't read this before. Its interesting - is this from your perspective or..?

 

 

[HisFirst]

Hi Sister,

Ty for the invite into your thread:)

I haven't studied at length on this subject - but am curious to see different thoughts etc on it.

[Deborah_]

54 minutes ago, Sister said:

THE TESTAMENT OF JUDAH

....

Well, maybe. But it's highly disputed whether this is genuine.

[Jayne]

13 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Jayne

Thanks for taking the time to answer also.

 Please see my answer to Deborah on this question, how it stays in the family.

Yes, I have read that where Isaac commanded Jacob not to marry a Canaanite woman, but to marry within Laban's family.

He said that in part (or in whole) due to his wife's burden of Jacob marrying a local woman.  But was that really her motivation?  Not 100%

Genesis 27 - She had already told Jacob to go to Laban, not for marrying inside the family, but to escape Esau who wanted to kill him.

And then she tells her husband, Isaac, = " And Rebekah said to Isaac, I am weary of my life because of the daughters of Heth: if Jacob take a wife of the daughters of Heth, such as these which are of the daughters of the land, what good shall my life do me?"

Rebekah talked Isaac into sending Jacob away to Laban.  He think it's because of her concern of marriageable women, and it may be - in part.  But for Rachael, it's mostly to keep him safe from Esau who plans on killing him after Isaac dies.

So, Isaac repeats her instructions to Jacob.

 

 

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, HisFirst said:

Hi Jayne,

I haven't read this before. Its interesting - is this from your perspective or..?

 

 

The Bible says he was afraid that his youngest son might die.

Genesis 38:11 = " Then Judah said to Tamar his daughter-in-law, “Remain a widow in your father's house, till Shelah my son grows up”—for he feared that he would die, like his brothers. So Tamar went and remained in her father's house."

He sent her as far away as possible. 

And when Shelah did grow up to marriageable age - he did not keep his promise to Tamar.

Verse 14 says she knew that:  " she took off her widow's garments and covered herself with a veil, wrapping herself up, and sat at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that Shelah was grown up, and she had not been given to him in marriage."

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

Well, maybe. But it's highly disputed whether this is genuine.

It's genuine alright .... but not genuinely from Judah.  I don't know if people from a little before or a little after the 1st century thought they were "assisting" God with this fiction or just creating their own "fan fic" as people do today on the internet.

It was written FAR too late to be from the real Judah and there are too many references and allusions to the statements of Christ for it to be ancient and written by Judah.

And chapter 4:17 mentions the destruction of the temple of God - there was no temple of God, not even a tabernacle as of Judah's days.

Ew .... and it says that Tamar was dressed as a bride because brides in those days had to sit by the gates and be a prostitute for 7 days before they got married! 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Jayne

[Sister]

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

It's genuine alright .... but not genuinely from Judah.  I don't know if people from a little before or a little after the 1st century thought they were "assisting" God with this fiction or just creating their own "fan fic" as people do today on the internet.

Judah left his testimony to his children on his death-bed.  That was handed down to Judah's tribe.  When they found his testimony and translated it into English happened much later.  Doesn't mean that Judah didn't write it.

 

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

It was written FAR too late to be from the real Judah and there are too many references and allusions to the statements of Christ for it to be ancient and written by Judah.

Abraham knew about Jesus, why not his children?  Even the prophets prophesied about the Messiah.

The 12 Patriarchs are the beginnings of the Establishment of Zion on earth.  Through them, the ways of God was practiced and passed down, and you can see that even in the old days, it was not all about rituals and sacrifices, but about righteousness, the type you serve from the heart.

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

And chapter 4:17 mentions the destruction of the temple of God - there was no temple of God, not even a tabernacle as of Judah's days.

He prophesies and warns what will happen to Judah in the times coming, and how they will fall away from God in the end times.  This is prophesied in the Canon also, so does not contradict.

 

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

Ew .... and it says that Tamar was dressed as a bride because brides in those days had to sit by the gates and be a prostitute for 7 days before they got married! 

Tamar was an Israelite.  To trap Judah, she posed as what Judah would of recognised as a prostitute.  But in the customs of the people where she was staying at that time, she was dressed as a bride.  Their custom is that the bride sits in fornication for 7 days.  They don't see a bride as a prostitute, but one who practises their customs.  Maybe their custom was not to charge money?  Anyhow they knew she wasn't one of them.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sister

[Sister]

What we have got here in these writings is better than speculation.  We have something more substantial to ponder on.  We have reasons now of why and how.

[Sister]

I think Judah's testimony is the most powerful.

He tells us the reason why he married a canaanite woman - because he was "drunk", and filled with lust.  This is something we can all relate to.  He did not bear any good fruit from her, and she became a thorn in his side.

It's the same today.  God warns us Christians not to mingle with the children of the world.  If we go into their world and get drunk with them, then there's consequences of an unhappy life.

[angels4u]

57 minutes ago, Sister said:

I think Judah's testimony is the most powerful.

He tells us the reason why he married a canaanite woman - because he was "drunk", and filled with lust.  This is something we can all relate to.  He did not bear any good fruit from her, and she became a thorn in his side.

It's the same today.  God warns us Christians not to mingle with the children of the world.  If we go into their world and get drunk with them, then there's consequences of an unhappy life.

 

 

Why don't we just stick by what the Bible tells us about Judah and  Tamar?

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.Revelation 22:18