Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Limey_Bob]

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 Galatians 3:26, For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29, And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

v. 27, Baptized into Christ;

To put on Christ in this passage means to be clothed with Him: to assume His person and character; and to act the part and sustain the character of Christ in daily life (Gal. 5:24; 2 Cor. 5:17-18; Rom. 6:1-14; 8:1-13). To profess Christianity is to take on the life and works of Christ and follow in His steps, and do His works (John 14:12-15; 1 Pet. 2:21; 4:1-2; Rom. 13:14).

v. 28, There is neither Jew nor Greek,

All races, classes, and sexes are one in Christ and equal in rights and privileges regarding gospel benefits. They make one body with Christ the head (1 Cor. 12:13, 28-31; Eph. 1;20-23; 2:19-22; Col. 3:11).

The gulf between Jews and Gentiles, masters and slaves, and male and female have been bridged by Christ and the gospel.

V. 29,  And if ye be Christ's;

All Christians are one in unity, in rights, and privileges as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one in unity and not in person (john 17:11, 21-22; John 5:7).

"and heirs according to the promise." 

There are seven Equal Blessings for Christians;

1 All are children of God (v. 26).

2. All are baptized into Christ (v. 27).

3. All have put on Christ (. 27).

4. All are equal and one in Christ (v. 28).

5. All belong to Christ (v. 29; 5:24).

6. All are Abraham's spiritual seed (v. 29).

7. All are heirs by promise (v. 29).

 

 

 

Hazard, can we then agree that God has one single people of God, the believing gentiles are drafted into this single people (of believing Jews), nobody is replaced and there are not multiple bodies of Christ, only one single people of God (church), comprising male, female, believing Jew and believing gentile.

 

[Limey_Bob]

11 hours ago, angels4u said:

No Hazard, I was asking Bob, we don't know him that good yet and with all the posting  people do on this topic  , it's good to know when a person stands with the Lord, don't you think?

I know your answer....

 

Angels4you please post questions, addressed to me personally, thanks or else it will get confusing. I cannot say who is or who is not saved, only God can do that, but salvation is by covenant within the nature of God; i.e. God the Father covenants with the Son of God to save a people, this covenant is mediated through the Holy Spirit who also then brings people into that covenant (Hebrews 9:13-15). Because God (within himself) saves us, we cannot add anything to him justifying us, so we cannot add our own works to grace (in justification) see Romans 4:5, yet in sanctification, our works certain do play a part in sanctification (see James 2), but never in Justification which is by grace through faith alone.

[Limey_Bob]

9 hours ago, angels4u said:

Amen ,I don't understand how Christians can even think that we're living in the Millenium ,all you have to do is look around , satan is the prince of this world ,where do we see him bound?

 

Angels4u, I have made it clear that I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE MILLENNIUM IS PHYSICAL AND LITERAL UPON THIS EARTH, I kind of give up now with this post, as everyone seems to insist upon misrepresenting me. Firstly, I'm going to stop using the word "millennium" as it's not found in scripture, I'll speak of the 1,000 years, that term is used six times, four times representing from Adam to Christ and twice (Revelation 20:4 and 6) it's applied to heaven where Christ is spiritually reigning right now, this reign was extant when Paul wrote Colossians 1:13 which uses the present tense to take about the "kingdom of his dear Son." So the kingdom of God was extant when Paul wrote Colossians. Secondly, I am willing to debate this one on one, but I think that my replying to this thread is going to be counterproductive, as people are not listening to me, and they are making assumptions about me that are both unfair and completely inaccurate, how would you like it if you voted for Donald Trump and then some left wing person kept on calling you a Nazi, over and over again, it would become annoying and its unfair and Trump supporters aren't Nazi's that's simply how some unreasonable anti_Trump and pro-Hilary people argue (its called a Straw man Argument). I hope that the Admins take note, as it's just a waste of time trying to dialogue with people who refuses to allow me to outline your own position and keeps on saying .... oh you must believe XYZ because I say that you believe that ridiculous nonsense, and I refuse to allow you to define your own position.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Limey_Bob]

8 hours ago, Davida said:

Yes , it seems crazy to us. But I get where they are...I used to be there.  To those who aren't saved the world doesn't look that bad and they even think it is getting better- they are under the  delusion by the Adversary.   

I recall being under that deception, before I was actually saved. I didn't think people were that great but I loved the natural world & foolishly thought humanity had the capacity to improve. Now, since being born again,  I see that the natural world is living under the curse & groaning under sin as well & humans are helplessly wicked & need the Lord Jesus Christ to rule fully in their lives. Unfortunately the children of this fallen world and those who think they are "Christians" are grouped together --scoffing at the true Biblical born- again fundamentalist Christians who know the Bible and know these are the last days & Jesus Christ is returning to snatch away His bride soon & then we will be back to fight the great war of Armageddon.

 One poster called me a deist, now I'm told that I am unsaved and deluded by the Adversary. I want nothing more to do with this thread, I hope that the admins take not of how unreasonable people are. I have said repeatedly that the kingdom over which Christ is currently ruling (in heaven) is spiritual (Revelation 20:4), that he has a kingdom is obvious from the present tense of Colossians 1:13 .... "kingdom of his dear son." Just because other Post-Millennialists believe that the Kingdom is literal and physical on this earth, and that the world will get better and better, does not mean that I have to believe that too, I don't, I happen to reject that, but as people insist on misrepresenting me and calling me a deity and unsaved controlled by satan, I'm out of here seeing that the Admins arn't ensuring that everyone is polite  and quotes the other person accurately. I will only discuss this further in a one on one debate.

[Guest shiloh357]

40 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Worthy, I'd suggest that you look at Colossians 1:13 which states that Christ is ruling RIGHT NOW, the use of the word "Kingdom" implies both a King and a people whom the King is ruling over: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" This verse is written in the present tense; implying that this Kingdom was already extant, it is not written as a future tense implying that it was not then extant when Paul was writing. Please note that I do not believe as most Post-Millennialists that this kingdom is here on earth, being literal and physical at the present time, it's a spiritual kingdom which then extended and made physical (to this earth) at Christ's second coming. Thank you for your patience with me.

Just seeking clarification, Bob...    Do you believe the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 a literal event, or is it something else?  If so, what does that 1000 years really refer to in your view?

And as a point of fact, Col. 1:13 does NOT say that Christ is reigning right now.   Jesus is a king to be sure, but according to Scripture He is now operating in the office of Great High Priest, not as King.  

 

[Limey_Bob]

9 hours ago, worthy said:

Christ hasn't started his reign. 

Christ is reigning NOW as King over his Kingdom, to prove this Saint John at Revelation 1:9 states that he is a part of this kingdom: "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

 

This kingdom is primarily spiritual, Christ rules now in heaven over his saints who are said (before John wrote this book in the mid 60s AD) to be "souls" (that is dis-incarnate spirits - Revelation 20:4). Christ is thus ruling now as King, over his Kingdom (a spiritual kingdom of saints, not some literal physical geographical area upon this planet at the present time), another verse which proves this is 2^nd Peter 1:11: "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

 

Paul writing at Ephesians 5:5, uses a present tense to describe the Kingdom as being then extant (i.e. described by a present tense) when he wrote this book: "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." 

 

Finally, Paul at Colossians 1:13 again speaks of the kingdom of his Son, using (once again) a present tense to describe this (spiritual) kingdom, thereby proving that it was then existing when Paul wrote this book: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."

 

I therefore rest my case that for two thousand years, since his ascension into heaven the Christian theological position in Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant positions, is that Christ has been ruling (in heaven) over his (spiritual) kingdom of dead saints (as Revelation 20:4 states). To claim that Christ is not now a King, and that Christ does not at the present time have a Kingdom over which he is ruling runs counter to 2,000 year of Christian teaching and is extremely dishonouring to Christ, who said to be ruling (as King) over his Kingdom when these verses were written: Colossians 1:13, Ephesians 5:5, Revelation 1:9 and 2^nd Peter 1:11. I certainly grant you freedom to come to different theological positions on the Millennium; Pre-Mill, Post-Mill and A-Mill, nobody is a heretic or a false Christian for coming to a different positon to somebody else. But to deny that Christ is now, in some way or in some sense ruling as King (over some sort of Kingdom) is a serious error which undermines the person and work of Christ.

 

I will only discuss this further in a one on one debate, seeing that I am being repeatedly misquoted.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Christ is reigning NOW as King over his Kingdom, to prove this Saint John at Revelation 1:9 states that he is a part of this kingdom: "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." This kingdom is primarily spiritual, Christ rules now in heaven over his saints who are said (before John wrote this book in the mid 60s AD) to be "souls" (that is dis-incarnate spirits - Revelation 20:4). Christ is thus ruling now as King, over his Kingdom (a spiritual kingdom of saints, not some literal physical geographical area upon this planet at the present time), another verse which proves this is 2nd Peter 1:11: "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Paul writing at Ephesians 5:5, uses a present tense to describe the Kingdom as being then extant (i.e. described by a present tense) when he wrote this book: "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Finally, Paul at Colossians 1:13 again speaks of the kingdom of his Son, using (once again) a present tense to describe this (spiritual) kingdom, thereby proving that it was then existing when Paul wrote this book: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son." I therefore rest my case that for two thousand years, since his ascension into heaven the Christian theological position in Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant positions, is that Christ has been ruling (in heaven) over his (spiritual) kingdom of dead saints (as Revelation 20:4 states). To claim that Christ is not now a King, and that Christ does not at the present time have a Kingdom over which he is ruling runs counter to 2,000 year of Christian teaching and is extremely dishonouring to Christ, who said to be ruling (as King) over his Kingdom when these verses were written: Colossians 1:13, Ephesians 5:5, Revelation 1:9 and 2nd Peter 1:11.

None of that actually says that Jesus is reigning at this time.   The throne Jesus will reign on is David's throne which is always an earthly throne in the Bible.  That's the throne He inherits as Israel's Messiah and it is the throne He will reign on for the 1000 year Messianic reign.  

Much of protestant theology fails to take into account the Messianic prophecies and promises that God has made to the 12 tribes of Israel that He is still going to fulfill in the future when Jesus reigns over them as King and Messiah.

[Limey_Bob]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

And as a point of fact, Col. 1:13 does NOT say that Christ is reigning right now.   Jesus is a king to be sure, but according to Scripture He is now operating in the office of Great High Priest, not as King.  

Nonsense, Christ is Prophet, Priest and King .... all three not just one. If you or anyone else wants to discuss this with me, then propose a one on one debate title.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Limey_Bob said:

Nonsense, Christ is Prophet, Priest and King .... all three not just one. If you or anyone else wants to discuss this with me, then propose a one on one debate title.

But Jesus doesn't operate in all three offices at the same time.   Jesus operated in the office of prophet in the Gospels.  He was a King and a Priest then, but He was not reigning and was not fulfilling the high priestly role at that time.    So, it is perfectly legitimate to say that He  is a King but is not operating in either the role of prophet or King, but in the role of Great High Priest at this time.  

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Limey_Bob said:

Nonsense, Christ is Prophet, Priest and King .... all three not just one. If you or anyone else wants to discuss this with me, then propose a one on one debate title.

I definitely side with Shiloh on this understanding... it is the Word that presents different times and ways The Lord dispenses His Will and this present is definitely ascribed to in the Hebrews...