Is Maryology Idolatry?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

13 minutes ago, Davida said:

I presented the Bible scripture where we are told explicitly to ask others in the Body of Christ to pray for us.

When you die and go to heaven. Are you still part of the body of Christ?

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

Oh Please Judas, that is so clearly a deflection in order to cling to what is obviously NOT taught in the Scripture.  The Holy Bible is QUITE CLEAR whom it is referring to. Why would you not get that? Why try to pretend the Scripture is referring to include those who DIED?  It is obvious in the context of the passages that the Scripture is clearly speaking of those who are walking the earth who we can see with our own eyes and "go to".  The Bible does not make these things fuzzy but speaks clearly.  When it speaks of those dead in Christ, the Bible is explicitly clear.

So why not answer my question? Are those in heaven part of the body of Christ?

[kwikphilly]

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You would have to concede that those in heaven are no longer part of the body of Christ. 

Blessings Judas

   I'm sorry but that is quite an outrageous thought,why would I ever think something so ridiculous,that makes it very clear to me that you have absolutely no idea what I am saying or what I believe.....I Believe the Word of God,I don't believe we should assume anything nor do I believe we should do anything that God Forbids us to do,like "attempting" to contact the dead.....No,I do not believe the dead know what is going on here in this corrupt & very temporal physical world or our physical lives(or their own)....I'm sure everyone has their own picture of Paradise,mine does not include any visions of my deceased(Saved) loved ones seeing & grieving over what I endure before I get there.....in the Bible I read that is not what I see waiting for me when Jesus Calls me Home......

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John 16:20-24

 

"Truly, truly, I say to you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will grieve, but your grief will be turned into joy. "Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world. "Therefore you too have grief now; but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.

 

[Kindle]

On 4/28/2017 at 6:47 PM, Judas Machabeus said:

Can you give the verse that says that? 

Has anyone brought up,Ecclesiastes 9:5?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

Really? Give me a break Judas you think the two are the same? You are attempting to set up a false equivalence and it is an obvious deception and it is obviously GOD does not contradict HIMSELF , when HE says it is an ABOMINATION to seek the dead , HE means it. It is an affront to GOD to try to sneak this in as acceptable.  

Why can't you answer the question. When you die are you still part of the body of Christ?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

26 minutes ago, worthy said:

Has anyone brought up,Ecclesiastes 9:5?

Yes Kwik did

[Kindle]

1 minute ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Yes Kwik did

Ok,just asking.

What is your interpretation of that verse?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

42 minutes ago, worthy said:

Ok,just asking.

What is your interpretation of that verse?

I'm not familiar with it so I would have to do some reading up on it. 

My initial reaction will be shredded to pieces and I would feel obligated to try and defend an interpitation that I'm shooting from the hip. 

So at this point I would respond, that's interesting and I would have to go back and read the context that is written in. 

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edit

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actually I will say this, I would have to look at it in light of the question I asked David. Are those in heaven part of the Body of Christ. If so than there's a problem with this verse being taken in a literalist way. To take it in a literalist way than one would have to answer that those are no longer part of the Body of Christ. This is why David refuses to answer my question. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Judas Machabeus
It's obvious

[Kindle]

52 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I'm not familiar with it so I would have to do some reading up on it. 

Ok,thank you for your answer.

[Fidei Defensor]

16 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

While I wait for those paragraph numbers, here's some I'll share with you. I'll also provide paragraph numbers and links.

494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."¹³⁹ Thus, giving her consent to God's word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God's grace:¹⁴⁰

 

As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."¹⁴¹ Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert. . .: "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."¹⁴² Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."¹⁴³

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm#494

 

she's serving the mystery of redemption and her son and dependant upon him all by Gods grace. Doesn't sound like she being called a saviour.

 

Judas: As I am writing this you replied...... 993 talks about the resurrection.  But I think I found what you were talking about. There is one part that if you ripe it out of context you can make it sound suspicious. So let me do some underlining so nothing important gets missed here. 

 

967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)⁵¹⁰ of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Saviour's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."⁵¹¹

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."⁵¹²

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."⁵¹³ "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."⁵¹⁴

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm#969

Judas speaking: Paragraph 969 I think is the one that brings the concern. The wording can be misunderstood in the way that Protestants do. But here's the problem with understanding 969 as to say that Mary is a redeemer, Paragraph 970 (the very next paragraph) says that she or any other created being can not be a redeemer or take the place of Jesus. Paragraph 970 completes refutes the Protestant understanding of 969. I will concede that the language used in 969 is difficult to understand, especially from the outside looking in and having anti-Marion biases in place (biased comment is not ment to be insulting. I'm Canadian so natural I would have a bias towards Canada on global issues we all have biases). But the language used in 970 is plain and straight forward.

Side bar: sorry for the formatting. Something is gliching with my phone.

Cheers and God Bless 

I appreciate you shared so much information. I just have one question, is this from Roman Catholic Catechism or a Reformed Catechism?