Eastern Orthodoxy vs. Biblical Christianity

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, Happinessity said:

I don't believe conjurers of division has any place among the saints of holy God.

Well there is a division:   The EO appeals to the church and man-made  as their final authority.   We appeal to the Word of God as our final authority.  There can be nothing but division in that case.

Quote

Turning the words God inspired to say what someone wants them to say so as to cause division isn't something I participate in. You'll understand. 

That's not what I am doing.   I am simply pointing to the obvious divide that is there even if you don't want to admit it.   And you are the one who misquoted God's inspired words, not me.

[Fidei Defensor]

I do not see Jude recommending Eastern Orthodoxy. I am not condemning Orthodox, I am questioning their theology, doxology, Christology, and more because it doesn't align with Scriptura. They are a Prima Scriptura church (Scripture and Tradition equal, Scripture is tradition) and this concerns me because Jesus said, "Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God," (Mark 7:7), "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules," (Matthew 15:9), and Orthodoxy promotes asceticism which is denounced by Paul, "These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh." (Colossians 2:23 ESV).

[Fridaywinds]

It's kind of strange to find a discussion promoting contention against a group of Christians. I think that says a lot about the heart that intends to do that in a community that is suppose to be dedicated to everything Jesus died to accomplish. And that included rebuking the attitudes of the Pharisees that seem to be popping here.

Paul doesn't denounce asceticism. Getting that out of the way there we can begin to realize the wrong turn that is going on here and maybe make it right with facts.

Maybe this kind of discussion wouldn't exist if more people bothered to learn about Orthodoxy.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [Galatians 5:22-23]

Orthodox Christianity
for Absolute Beginners
http://www.orthodoxresource.co.uk/christianlife/asceticism.htm

That's a great start in reading for anyone who wants to learn about others in Christ under the Orthodox banner.

[Fidei Defensor]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:07 AM, Fridaywinds said:

It's kind of strange to find a discussion promoting contention against a group of Christians. I think that says a lot about the heart that intends to do that in a community that is suppose to be dedicated to everything Jesus died to accomplish. And that included rebuking the attitudes of the Pharisees that seem to be popping here.

Paul doesn't denounce asceticism. Getting that out of the way there we can begin to realize the wrong turn that is going on here and maybe make it right with facts.

Maybe this kind of discussion wouldn't exist if more people bothered to learn about Orthodoxy.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [Galatians 5:22-23]

Orthodox Christianity
for Absolute Beginners
http://www.orthodoxresource.co.uk/christianlife/asceticism.htm

That's a great start in reading for anyone who wants to learn about others in Christ under the Orthodox banner.

In my view It's more of discussion and debate, rather than contention. Contention in my definition is when people actually get offended and start being verbally unkind. In debate there is going to be heated moments, and the fact this is in the Apologetics section is telltale sign like the Eschatology threads, that its going to get deep and perhaps tense.  

I myself have done more than read about Orthodoxy (Kallistos Ware, and other books), I have been to an Orthoodx Friday Vigil, talked to Priest Father Photios, I have talked with a Orthodox monk, I had icons (IC XC Christ Pantokrator, Christ the Teacher, The Crucifixion), I have Dvina The Soul of Orthodox Chant, I have Armenian Orthodox Friends, and I have delved deeply into the materials available online, including videos where Orthodox priests teach the fundamentals of Orthodox theology, soteriology, and doxology. And the truth is that Protestants are Solae Scriptura, and Orthodox like Roman Catholics are Prima Scriptura (according to Orthodox Priests). I think we can be kinder and more respectful when addressing differences between Protestantism and Orthodoxy, but we must remember every thread is basically a discussion and it can turn into a debate (that is the risk of any discussion).

Orthodoxy lost me with, "Salvation is mystery..," hmm.. the Scriptures say, "If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved," (Romans 10:9-10), "For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day," (John 6:40), "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life," (John 3:16),  and "They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:31). No mystery there.
 

[Fridaywinds]

I think if we imagine we know all there is behind God's saving grace that we are highly arrogant in believing we can know the mind of God. Which God says we cannot do. And I think if that is what propels contention against a church dedicated to the mystery of God, respecting his power , honoring and delivering the message of his grace to the fallen human race, then there is a lot of growing that needs be done in order to get right with God. 

Those that make an enemy of this church, the Orthodox, in the name of Christ at that, are far from knowing God's grace when they imagine their hubris entitlement condemns hundreds of thousands of people to fall under that opinion that they are not in Christ. The effort in my view indicts the offender in such a style. Not those they desire to offend. 

[Happinessity]

2 hours ago, Fridaywinds said:

I think if we imagine we know all there is behind God's saving grace that we are highly arrogant in believing we can know the mind of God. Which God says we cannot do. And I think if that is what propels contention against a church dedicated to the mystery of God, respecting his power , honoring and delivering the message of his grace to the fallen human race, then there is a lot of growing that needs be done in order to get right with God. 

Those that make an enemy of this church, the Orthodox, in the name of Christ at that, are far from knowing God's grace when they imagine their hubris entitlement condemns hundreds of thousands of people to fall under that opinion that they are not in Christ. The effort in my view indicts the offender in such a style. Not those they desire to offend. 

  We don't hate the offenders. We hate their assault on Christ.  God forgive them. 

[Fridaywinds]

Just now, Happinessity said:

  We don't hate the offenders. We hate their assault on Christ.  God forgive them. 

Amen. God have mercy. 

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, Fridaywinds said:

I think if we imagine we know all there is behind God's saving grace that we are highly arrogant in believing we can know the mind of God. Which God says we cannot do. And I think if that is what propels contention against a church dedicated to the mystery of God, respecting his power , honoring and delivering the message of his grace to the fallen human race, then there is a lot of growing that needs be done in order to get right with God. 

Those that make an enemy of this church, the Orthodox, in the name of Christ at that, are far from knowing God's grace when they imagine their hubris entitlement condemns hundreds of thousands of people to fall under that opinion that they are not in Christ. The effort in my view indicts the offender in such a style. Not those they desire to offend. 

Then I suggest you discuss the topic and not the people supporting their side of the argument.  Provide scripture to back your view and others will provide scripture to back theirs.  In all posts, don't make it personal about the poster as that is against the TOS.

Statements like this are not allowed:

On 5/4/2017 at 1:07 PM, Fridaywinds said:

And that included rebuking the attitudes of the Pharisees that seem to be popping here.

[Happinessity]

8 hours ago, Fridaywinds said:

Amen. God have mercy. 

 

17 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

In my view It's more of discussion and debate, rather than contention. Contention in my definition is when people actually get offended and start being verbally unkind. In debate there is going to be heated moments, and the fact this is in the Apologetics section is telltale sign like the Eschatology threads, that its going to get deep and perhaps tense.  

I myself have done more than read about Orthodoxy (Kallistos Ware, and other books), I have been to an Orthoodx Friday Vigil, talked to Priest Father Photios, I have talked with a Orthodox monk, I had icons (IC XC Christ Pantokrator, Christ the Teacher, The Crucifixion), I have Dvina The Soul of Orthodox Chant, I have Armenian Orthodox Friends, and I have delved deeply into the materials available online, including videos where Orthodox priests teach the fundamentals of Orthodox theology, soteriology, and doxology. And the truth is that Protestants are Solae Scriptura, and Orthodox like Roman Catholics are Prima Scriptura (according to Orthodox Priests). I think we can be kinder and more respectful when addressing differences between Protestantism and Orthodoxy, but we must remember every thread is basically a discussion and it can turn into a debate (that is the risk of any discussion).

Orthodoxy lost me with, "Salvation is mystery..," hmm.. the Scriptures say, "If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved," (Romans 10:9-10), "For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day," (John 6:40), "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life," (John 3:16),  and "They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:31). No mystery there.
 

I think to be intellectually honest in a debate we cannot first decide to define for ourselves words that describe the atmosphere in a debate. 

Contention: The definition of contention is a struggle, dispute or something that someone argues about.

[Fidei Defensor]

36 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

 

I think to be intellectually honest in a debate we cannot first decide to define for ourselves words that describe the atmosphere in a debate. 

Contention: The definition of contention is a struggle, dispute or something that someone argues about.

"Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen," (2 Timothy 2:14), and "Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels." (2 Timothy 2:23).

You know words have multiple meanings, so its disingenuous to shame someone for saying how they view contention. Argument has two well known connotations, it can be dispute and contain harsh behavior, or it can be "I make my argument based on these facts" and it is done in a more scholastic and academic way.

Fighting over words is really what Apostle says, "of no value."