Genesis 1 & 2

[BobRyan]

On 5/9/2017 at 7:44 AM, Allroses48 said:

In my study of Genesis 1 and 2 there have been some scholars who say that there are actually two different times man was created. Other scholars believe Genesis 2 goes into more detail of Genesis 1. I believe that Genesis 1:26 was actually the trinity speaking, one of the first prophecies of Jesus Christ, when it says Let Us create man in our image...Elohim bera Let Us create. Elohim plural for God and bera singular verb for to create. What's interesting about this I founid is that the Hebrew verb noun agreement is stricter than the English so the author was çlearly trying to convey the Trinity in this passage.

It's interesting in Genesis 2:4 it does say this is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day the Lord God made earth and heaven. So it definitely does seem like a review and not a 2nd creation of a different creation story. I'm wondering if in 2:4 it isn't talking about the period of the dinosaurs when everything was extremely tropical, humid, and the atmosphere was encased over by clouds but not saturated enough for rain? Because it says, "a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground". Now is this literal for the environment of the earth or could it be something else? In Hebrew according to one scholar it's actually a defiling mist and represents Satan being clearly present on the earth during the beginning of creation. What do you think?

Recall that Moses had no chapter divisions in his book of Genesis. You are right that instead of trying to come up with a conflicting contradictory "two chapters" Moses was writing one consistent document. Notice that we have details in Genesis 2 that you do not find in Genesis 1. And we have birds, fish, Sun and Moon etc in Genesis 1 - that you do not find "again" being created in Genesis 2. 

Genesis 2 is focused detail on the Garden, the two trees, Marriage, the detailed creation of man vs woman... details not in Genesis 2. Details necessary in Genesis 3.

[BobRyan]

On 5/15/2017 at 7:43 AM, Aryeh said:

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. <    > And he said to me, "The waters <...> are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

Why do you think that the "water" in the Bible is H2O, and the light is photons?[/quote]

 

Because of the obvious "evening and morning were the first day" - -and so on for 2nd day etc.

Lev 23 "from evening until evening shall you celebrate your Sabbaths".

Ex 20:8-11 "Six DAYS you shall labor and do all your work...for in Six DAYS the Lord MADE"

[BobRyan]

On 5/15/2017 at 7:43 AM, Aryeh said:

...and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. <    > And he said to me, "The waters <...> are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

 

 

Genesis is not apocalyptic text. You mixed Rev 17 with Genesis 1 as if they are both apocalyptic texts. As James Barr points out - no professor of Hebrew or OT studies -- in all the world-class-universities denies the intent in Genesis as a literal historic text. The text is not apocalyptic symbolism.

[Aryeh]

20 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

Genesis is not apocalyptic text. You mixed Rev 17 with Genesis 1 as if they are both apocalyptic texts. As James Barr points out - no professor of Hebrew or OT studies -- in all the world-class-universities denies the intent in Genesis as a literal historic text. The text is not apocalyptic symbolism.

Yeah, if the professor, then he knows for sure.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 5/9/2017 at 8:44 AM, Allroses48 said:

I believe that Genesis 1:26 was actually the trinity speaking, one of the first prophecies of Jesus Christ, when it says Let Us create man in our image

That is totally correct. 

Some would try to explain that away as the so called Royal plural but that didnt exist in biblical times. Nowhere else in the bible do you ever see God or earthly kings speak of themselves as 'we' or 'us'

Some like the JWs believe God was speaking to His angels but then that would make angels our co creators. Any created being cannot be a creator. And we are not made in the image of a created being.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

I'm wondering if in 2:4 it isn't talking about the period of the dinosaurs when everything was extremely tropical, humid, and the atmosphere was encased over by clouds but not saturated enough for rain? Because it says, "a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground".

Very probably. As there is no mention of a second period of creation (creating the dinos, I mean) after, say, Adam and Eve were kicked out. Its probably also at least partially why Adam and Eve ad the first few generations could live for centuries. No UV light getting through.

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

.... Nowhere else in the bible do you ever see God or earthly kings speak of themselves as 'we' or 'us'

..... Any created being cannot be a creator. And we are not made in the image of a created being.

I LOVE HEBREW SO MUCH !    "Let us ....."    < SMILE >   is quite frequent.  (or not)

My earthly father and mother 'created' me,  YHWH BE PRAISED! ,  and I was made in the image of them ...  (or not)....

As GIFT FROM YHWH ~  GIVER OF ALL LIFE!

We were all made in the SINFUL IMAGE of our parents.......   "everyone born consigned under sin".....

Everyone who gets "born again" a new creation~  !  Walking in fellowship with YHWH in Y'SHUA......   so COOL !

Just now, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Very probably. As there is no mention of a second period of creation (creating the dinos, I mean) after, say, Adam and Eve were kicked out. Its probably also at least partially why Adam and Eve ad the first few generations could live for centuries. No UV light getting through.

.... and no "fast food" ....    < SMILE >   "Moses Wasn't Fat"  (Delightful Book explained why Israelites weren't sick)

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

19 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

I LOVE HEBREW SO MUCH !    "Let us ....."    < SMILE >   is quite frequent.  (or not)

My earthly father and mother 'created' me,  YHWH BE PRAISED! ,  and I was made in the image of them ...  (or not)....

As GIFT FROM YHWH ~  GIVER OF ALL LIFE!

We were all made in the SINFUL IMAGE of our parents.......   "everyone born consigned under sin".....

Everyone who gets "born again" a new creation~  !  Walking in fellowship with YHWH in Y'SHUA......   so COOL !

We are all made in the image of GOD so I dont know where you are going with this

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, to all.

Who are these, darkening the doors of God's Holy Scriptures with all this pointless drivel?!

Job 38:1-5
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
KJV

Just who do any of you think you are to CONTRADICT what YHWH Eloheinu had Mosheh ("Moses") write?!

And, "Aryeh," "Lion," you're the biggest offender! TAKE GOD'S WORD AT FACE VALUE, and quit putting words in GOD'S mouth!

And, "TheMatrixHasU71," not everyone "made in the image of God" is a child of God!

John 8:34-44
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
KJV

John is also the one who informed us...

John 3:1-11
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
KJV

This is to what "simplejeff" was referring.

[other one]

57 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, to all.

Who are these, darkening the doors of God's Holy Scriptures with all this pointless drivel?!

Job 38:1-5
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
KJV

Just who do any of you think you are to CONTRADICT what YHWH Eloheinu had Mosheh ("Moses") write?!

And, "Aryeh," "Lion," you're the biggest offender! TAKE GOD'S WORD AT FACE VALUE, and quit putting words in GOD'S mouth!

And, "TheMatrixHasU71," not everyone "made in the image of God" is a child of God!

John 8:34-44
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
KJV

John is also the one who informed us...

John 3:1-11
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
KJV

This is to what "simplejeff" was referring.

Scripture abuse....