angels4u Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, wingnut- said: Hey angels, Yes, I am very familiar with those threads, particularly with the pre-trib position as I once held that position myself and argued that position. I believed pre-trib for the majority of my life, until one day I was presented with something that could not be reconciled to that position. I asked the Lord for guidance on the matter and that ultimately led to my current beliefs, so I have no doubts about the timing of the gathering anymore. God bless Lol,it was the Lord (I believe ) who changed my view again too,most important part is are we ready to meet the Lord,Amen brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, angels4u said: Lol,it was the Lord (I believe ) who changed my view again too,most important part is are we ready to meet the Lord,Amen brother? Amen sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, wingnut- said: Hey angels, Yes, I am very familiar with those threads, particularly with the pre-trib position as I once held that position myself and argued that position. I believed pre-trib for the majority of my life, until one day I was presented with something that could not be reconciled to that position. I asked the Lord for guidance on the matter and that ultimately led to my current beliefs, so I have no doubts about the timing of the gathering anymore. God bless Wingnut can I ask you why figuring out when the rapture is going to occur is so vitally important to you? All three views Pre, Mid an Post all have very valid points and that is why we have 3 distinct opinions on when it will happen. Are we to so focus on these issues instead of going out and serving the Lord waiting for His return? While I respect your viewpoint it isn't the correct one for sure. Neither is Pre or Mid. Bottom line we don't quite know when the rapture will happen. We do know that it will. So let's look at it this way if Pre-trib (which I know you don't hold to and that is ok neither do I) happens then great we will be pleasantly surprised. If it is Mid-trib(which I hold a little more closely to and I still respect your opinion) God will give us the grace to go through whatever we have to go through. If it is Post-trib (which your view is closest to) then again God will give us what we need to go through whatever we as believers will have to go through. Bottom line is this no one, not even you wing-nut knows when the rapture will occur but yet we can all agree that it will happen because scriptures says it will. To me knowing when that will happen is not an issue since I know it will happen and that I will be a part of it. From reading this thread I do not really see much of a discussion more than I see some arguing about points that godlier men than you and I disagree on. I would prefer to go out and be serving God and pray that when that rapture happens I am in the middle of living for Him. Wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,467 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The Lord certainly will come when it is time and the ready or not will be cry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: Wingnut can I ask you why figuring out when the rapture is going to occur is so vitally important to you? All three views Pre, Mid an Post all have very valid points and that is why we have 3 distinct opinions on when it will happen. Are we to so focus on these issues instead of going out and serving the Lord waiting for His return? While I respect your viewpoint it isn't the correct one for sure. Neither is Pre or Mid. Bottom line we don't quite know when the rapture will happen. We do know that it will. So let's look at it this way if Pre-trib (which I know you don't hold to and that is ok neither do I) happens then great we will be pleasantly surprised. If it is Mid-trib(which I hold a little more closely to and I still respect your opinion) God will give us the grace to go through whatever we have to go through. If it is Post-trib (which your view is closest to) then again God will give us what we need to go through whatever we as believers will have to go through. Bottom line is this no one, not even you wing-nut knows when the rapture will occur but yet we can all agree that it will happen because scriptures says it will. To me knowing when that will happen is not an issue since I know it will happen and that I will be a part of it. From reading this thread I do not really see much of a discussion more than I see some arguing about points that godlier men than you and I disagree on. I would prefer to go out and be serving God and pray that when that rapture happens I am in the middle of living for Him. Wouldn't you agree? Agree,it's not something to be concerned about ,the key is are we ready to meet the Lord at ANY time:) Is it well with our souls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 49 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: Wingnut can I ask you why figuring out when the rapture is going to occur is so vitally important to you? Why is it important? Mostly because of the order of the appearance. You see, what those from a pre-trib position teach is that Jesus will return first, but what scripture reveals is that the anti-christ will appear first. What happens as a result of changing the order around? Well, the anti-christ and his false prophet will come performing great signs and wonders, and this will deceive many people. If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say to an unbeliever, "Well, when all the Christians disappear, you will know the bible is true." So what happens to them when the Christians don't disappear? It wasn't so vitally important to me for most of my life, I was taught and believed the pre-trib theology from the time I was a child, through my teens, through my time at Liberty University where I studied eschatology specifically, and well into my adult life. It was in a discussion on this forum that an individual presented me with scripture that I had no answer for, and as a result of the confusion it brought me I asked the Lord for clarification on the matter. Over time the Holy Spirit has led me to an entirely different conclusion than what I once believed. Christians today are very skeptical when someone dares to mention that the Holy Spirit leads them to something, and I understand that as well, we are told time and again to beware of false prophets and teachers. It stands to reason that we should be skeptical, but we are also told how to determine the truth of any matter, and that is by scripture and the Holy Spirit. So if someone makes a claim and it opposes scripture, it is easy to dismiss such claims. I believe what scripture says, and I will stand on that as long as I live. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit as well, though so many today argue against them and their application today. Now I can't convince anyone of anything, but I am convinced from my personal experience that what I present is the truth, and that anyone who takes it to the Holy Spirit within them will come to the same conclusion. I discuss this matter not because I enjoy confrontation, but because I am certain this is what the Lord wants me to do. As for why He wants me to I can only speculate, but perhaps it has to do with the lateness of the hour and His desire that people be prepared. 29 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: Are we to so focus on these issues instead of going out and serving the Lord waiting for His return? Well, as I said this is something I am convicted to do, and I am serving the Lord according to what He wants of me. If the Lord convicts you to do something, do you do it? I agree no one knows the day or the hour, and that we all serve a purpose. I do not know what your calling or purpose is, but it is most likely not the same as mine, as each part of the body serves a specific purpose. I know I am not the only one the Lord has given this purpose to though, nor do I claim to know all there is to know about the end of days. I know a specific piece of it because I asked to know it, but there are still many questions I have that I do not know the answer to. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I am not that clever and did not come up with this on my own. There is a reason I can present my position with scripture, and it encapsulates all of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had never asked God to know about this, it is not easy to be accused by your brethren, to have accusations levied against you, or even have some go so far as to say you are condemned. Maybe that is why this is how He wants me to serve Him, because I don't really care what people think of me personally. I honestly can't say, but I would certainly hope that my brothers and sisters would understand doing His will. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Why is it important? Mostly because of the order of the appearance. You see, what those from a pre-trib position teach is that Jesus will return first, but what scripture reveals is that the anti-christ will appear first. What happens as a result of changing the order around? Well, the anti-christ and his false prophet will come performing great signs and wonders, and this will deceive many people. If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say to an unbeliever, "Well, when all the Christians disappear, you will know the bible is true." So what happens to them when the Christians don't disappear? Speculation and that is fine I respect your viewpoint. I don't see that debating this issue does any good. It's beating a dead horse really. All three views have been discussed and defended. I stand by my original statement on this. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: It wasn't so vitally important to me for most of my life, I was taught and believed the pre-trib theology from the time I was a child, through my teens, through my time at Liberty University where I studied eschatology specifically, and well into my adult life. It was in a discussion on this forum that an individual presented me with scripture that I had no answer for, and as a result of the confusion it brought me I asked the Lord for clarification on the matter. Over time the Holy Spirit has led me to an entirely different conclusion than what I once believed. And this is totally fine and I never questioned your veracity or your change of thought concerning your viewpoint. You are entitled to that viewpoint as the rest of us are entitled to ours. Your viewpoint may be right but it also may be wrong. But you act as though that you alone have the correct interpretation when everyone else is wrong. This particular discussion has been hashed out numerous times and quite frankly old hat so to speak. All three viewpoints claim that their interpretation is correct. This is a discussion that is better answered, "We don't quite know how this will go down. But we trust that God knows and we have faith that he says a rapture will happen." I don't believe that the whole point of the rapture should be a focus. As a matter of fact it is mentioned very briefly and never fully dwelt on. I wonder why? Yet many believers, including yourself, feel that they have to completely understand end time events and how it all will play out. I prefer to trust the God knows all things and He knows when and how everything will fall into place. We just need to trust Him that what He says will happen will happen in His time and in His way. Everything else that comes from man's mind is just speculation. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Christians today are very skeptical when someone dares to mention that the Holy Spirit leads them to something, and I understand that as well, we are told time and again to beware of false prophets and teachers. It stands to reason that we should be skeptical, but we are also told how to determine the truth of any matter, and that is by scripture and the Holy Spirit. So if someone makes a claim and it opposes scripture, it is easy to dismiss such claims. Again never discredited your knowledge or how the Holy Spirit leads you. That I never questioned. Nor will I. However I have studied scripture and I don't hold to your view. I am not wrong or incorrect. I admit my view is speculation at best but it makes sense to me. Your view makes sense to you. My point was not to discredit your beliefs but to question as to why you are placing such a huge emphasis on this when this topic is hashed out time and time and time again an no one really changes their views from one to another. I would say that most people you talk with would say that they are not totally sure because scripture is not really clear on this topic. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I believe what scripture says, and I will stand on that as long as I live. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit as well, though so many today argue against them and their application today. Now I can't convince anyone of anything, but I am convinced from my personal experience that what I present is the truth, and that anyone who takes it to the Holy Spirit within them will come to the same conclusion. I discuss this matter not because I enjoy confrontation, but because I am certain this is what the Lord wants me to do. As for why He wants me to I can only speculate, but perhaps it has to do with the lateness of the hour and His desire that people be prepared. I am glad that you used the word speculate which indicates that you understand that it is only a speculation and not a solid, matter of fact fact that your view isn't 100% foolproof. I appreciate that honesty. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Well, as I said this is something I am convicted to do, and I am serving the Lord according to what He wants of me. If the Lord convicts you to do something, do you do it? Amen to that. I totally agree that if God calls us to do something we should do it. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I agree no one knows the day or the hour, and that we all serve a purpose. I do not know what your calling or purpose is, but it is most likely not the same as mine, as each part of the body serves a specific purpose. I know I am not the only one the Lord has given this purpose to though, nor do I claim to know all there is to know about the end of days. I know a specific piece of it because I asked to know it, but there are still many questions I have that I do not know the answer to. Just make sure that you are 100% sure of your understanding of scripture in this matter. The way I always look at this view on this matter is this, would you be willing to do for such a belief and int the scheme of eternity does it really matter if you and I have different viewpoints on the rapture. I would rather know what your relationship with Christ is versus what your interpretation of when the rapture will happen. 10 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I am not that clever and did not come up with this on my own. There is a reason I can present my position with scripture, and it encapsulates all of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had never asked God to know about this, it is not easy to be accused by your brethren, to have accusations levied against you, or even have some go so far as to say you are condemned. Maybe that is why this is how He wants me to serve Him, because I don't really care what people think of me personally. I honestly can't say, but I would certainly hope that my brothers and sisters would understand doing His will. God bless Awesome! I hope that my post did not show condemnation or accusation because that was not what I was trying to do. I was asking some questions that I felt need to be answered. You have answered my question and I respect your opinion even if I think it is a flawed one. But that is ok. As I said above I am more concerned about your spiritual walk as a believer than what you believe on the rapture. I won't stay involved in this thread anymore since I believe that I can be used elsewhere. God Bless. 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wingnut- Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 7 hours ago, Jaydog1976 said: Your viewpoint may be right but it also may be wrong. But you act as though that you alone have the correct interpretation when everyone else is wrong. I respect your opinion as well. If you are reading me as though I think I am right though, then you are misreading me. This has nothing to do with me. And if you read this whole thread, you would have noticed that I was mistaken regarding a point and admitted to that, so either you missed that or you didn't read the whole thing. My arguments are based on what scripture actually says versus what people infer it says, I don't believe scripture needs interpreting. I am sure we agree that scripture is never wrong. 7 hours ago, Jaydog1976 said: Awesome! I hope that my post did not show condemnation or accusation because that was not what I was trying to do. I was asking some questions that I felt need to be answered. No, your post was not what I was referencing at all, although you make a few assumptions about me in this post. No worries about that, I was simply answering your questions as best I know how. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,855 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Davida said: I don't agree with the post trib rapture either. I see the pre-trib rapture in the scriptures. I don't think the beast would leave any of us to be raptured after the tribe. But then again one should define what the tribe is before talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 6 hours ago, other one said: I don't think the beast would leave any of us to be raptured after the tribe. But then again one should define what the tribe is before talking about it. I wouldn't imagine so either OO, most likely just those from amongst the remnant of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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