Our Father Prayer

[Fidei Defensor]

11 hours ago, PlanetChee said:

I believe the prayer means us to encapsulate ourselves in the words and the feeling of security in Christ himself. As if we're making a phone call to the most high. Be in the words, surrounded by the power that gave them life and meaning. Progress through the stanzas and feel the armor of God encompassed within the prayer fill and penetrate your being so as to go forth in your day within the hallowed shade of the Father. 

 

11 hours ago, PlanetChee said:

I believe the prayer means us to encapsulate ourselves in the words and the feeling of security in Christ himself. As if we're making a phone call to the most high. Be in the words, surrounded by the power that gave them life and meaning. Progress through the stanzas and feel the armor of God encompassed within the prayer fill and penetrate your being so as to go forth in your day within the hallowed shade of the Father. 

Very interesting perspective.

[JohnD]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:58 AM, Fidei Defensor said:

The Disciples asked Jesus "How should we pray?" Jesus responded:

^"9 Pray then like this:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name
¹⁰ Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
¹¹ Give us this day our daily bread,
¹² and forgive us our debts (transgressions, sins),
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
¹³ And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil. [Some manuscripts add, For Thine is Power, Kingdom, and Glory Forever and Ever Amen]" (Matthew 6:9-13).

Question, is the prayer in of itself to be prayed as it is word for word, or is it a list where you insert your personal prayers, for example instead of "Give me my daily bread, you say Lord help me pay the bills and put food on table, forgive my debts or transgressions, list them specifically," or is it model for prayers? That each line represents aspects of prayer, Saying who God is, Praise, Requests, Forgiveness for Sins, Safety in Temptation, and protection from Evil Powers.

The thing to remember about this prayer, the disciple's prayer (not the Lord's prayer as the tradition of man dictates) was: 

• a prayer for Old Testament disciples
• requested by Jesus' disciples
• to pray like John the Baptist taught his disciples to pray.

The actual Lord's prayer is John 17.

Jesus taught the New Testament prayer begins with:

John 16:24 (NIV84)
24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

As with all Old Testament, there are hints of New Testament. But it is in fact Old Testament / Old Covenant meaning under the Law / Torah and under the conditions of not being saved.

Our Father in heaven, [discovery / New Testament hint]
hallowed be your name [Old Testament base]
Your kingdom come, [note the kingdom had not yet come... till the cross / death of the testator Hebrews 9:16-17]
your will be done,  on earth as it is in heaven. [note this will not happen till the New Heaven - Earth replaces the old]
11 Give us this day our daily bread, [Old Testament]
12 and forgive us our debts (transgressions, sins) as we also have forgiven our debtors. [definitely Old Testament conditional forgiveness based on our performance]
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [Some manuscripts add, For Thine is Power, Kingdom, and Glory Forever and Ever Amen]" (Matthew 6:9-13).

Most are shocked when they see this for the first time because the old compromised Church Organization has blinded so many to the truth (to control or disable the Church Organism).

[Fidei Defensor]

Well its has several names, Our Father Prayer is how it is written, the Lord's Prayer is Roman Catholic name, and you do raise some interesting points. If we go literal, the real Lord's prayer, in that the Lord Jesus (Romans 10:9) prays literally is indeed John 17. Although one can argue that because Jesus is telling disciples how to pray, He too is praying it while sharing it, and even quotes a part of it at Gethsemane, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."(Luke 22:42).

Very intriguing discussion. Keep it up everyone.
 

[1to3]

About the Lords prayer,

It is good advise that Christ Jesus is giving us the blue print to how we should pray to God, covering all aspects of what we should be asking for and praying giving thanks to God.

 

The part where it says:

"Lead us not into temptation"

I am not sure but maybe something got mixed up in the translations,because God wouod never lead us into temptation.

 it should rather read: lead us AWAY from temptation as God never ever leads us into temptation, only the devil can- try -to lead us into temptation.

satan is the one who -tries- leads us into temptations,

God is the ONE who leads us away from temptation and gives us the strength, the spiritual, physical /mental  strength to overcome sin/ temptations.

God is the One who DELIVERS us from temptation, but never ever leads us into temptation , rather He leads us away from it. And praying to Him, that is what we should be asking Him.: to lead us away from temptation, for He is the ONE who gives us the spiritual, physical/ mental strength to do so

First thing when we pray to Him, we are to give honor and praise with reverence towards Him,

Agreeing that His will is greater than our own, and are ready to accept His will ovder our own will.

Then asking Him if He can help us to do that by providing us the ways :daily bread" to survive, physically. mentally and spiritually stronger and to protect us against evil and to help us to learn to apply forgiveness always in all of life's circumstances, as keeping grudges and resentments are not His will for us, but rather that we also get delivered from that as well.

Because if we cannot learn to forgive, than Gods will is NOT working in us and if Gods will is not working in us, neither can He unite with us in heaven, because God is Light and no darkness can come into the light. see: 1 John chapter 1.

It is essential for our physical and spiritual health to always practice forgiveness.

Resentments are what make us physical/mentally /spiritually sick, and gives satan  a way to crawl in.

As christian we are called to love one another, that is what Christ Jesus said should stand out in us to  everyone  even non Christians , by doing so we are truly living by His will and not our own, we are truly living a christian lifestyle that mark us as true  Christians.

 

John 13:35

…34A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by 1to3

[Fidei Defensor]

I heard in Greek the Our Father/Lord's Prayer is actually a list like if you are going to market to request things. Does this support reading it literal or as model for how to pray specifics. Let me know what you all think.

[1to3]

I believe Christ Jesus the only begotten Son of god, gave us the "our Father "as a blue print to how to pray, (how to communicate to God and how to live our lives as Christians, what we should request when we pray, for salvation to take place in our hearts and soul

[1to3]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Does this support reading it literal or as model for how to pray specifics. Let me know what you all think.

I think it supports  being both, a model of how we should pray as well a prayer in of it itself .

[Your closest friendnt]

On 5/21/2017 at 9:47 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

Well its has several names, Our Father Prayer is how it is written, the Lord's Prayer is Roman Catholic name, and you do raise some interesting points. If we go literal, the real Lord's prayer, in that the Lord Jesus (Romans 10:9) prays literally is indeed John 17. Although one can argue that because Jesus is telling disciples how to pray, He too is praying it while sharing it, and even quotes a part of it at Gethsemane, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."(Luke 22:42).

Very intriguing discussion. Keep it up everyone.
 

As soon as JESUS stopped praying the disciples asked him the question. 

If we look at JESUS response, he is telling them how he prays himself. 

JESUS  CHRIST was the Temple of God's Holy Spirit, and he taught them how to pray as if they are themselves the Temple of God, as in the new covenant. 

The Jews did not prayed that way, because of their culture, they had their own way of praying, look at the Pharisy how he prayed and if you go to any Synagogue you can get some idea , and you will find out, some of the similarities , of their and our prayers today. 

a ,) they never say, "our FATHER who are in Heaven", 

In their faith, they do not have a Heavenly Father. 

They do not a Heavenly inheritance. 

They can not whorship in spirit and in truth . 

They needed the Temple to bring their gifts , and make their request. 

Offer burned offering , the Jewish way. 

It may be said that Jesus was taking them away from their Jewish ways , introducing them to the new way. 

After the resurrection it is the first time JESUS said to them, 

I have not shown my self to the Heavenly Father ,  MY GOD and your GOD. 

JESUS CHRIST knew that the Kingdom of God as it is in Heaven, can not come on earth just by asking, he knew that he had to be in the will of God and die for that to happen. 

The Jewish were not seeking the Kingdom of God with CHRIST ruling from a Heavenly Throne, but rather an earthy Kingdom, with CHRIST as the King of the Jews , habitating an earthy palace , and an earthy Throne, etc. 

They did not have knowledge of the Kingdom of God as JESUS CHRIST knew, 

That's why JESUS told Nicodemus your consept about your Kingdom of God, will never happen.

And you have no idea what it is , but when you see the Son of Man, (David), on the Cross, and  with the new covenant, you will see the CHRIST sited on an Heavenly Throne, and not an earthy one, just like Stephan show it at the time of his death. 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

I think it supports  being both, a model of how we should pray as well a prayer in of it itself .

That's my view as well. ✞

[Your closest friendnt]

6 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

I think it supports  being both, a model of how we should pray as well a prayer in of it itself .

The prayer starts with thy kingdom comes on earth as it is in Heaven. 

That prayer requests it was good before JESUS CHRIST acoblish this with his death. 

If you pray this request today is like you are saying that the CHRIST has no die yet. 

That's why we never see that any of the disciples the pray or the teach anyone else to pray that way. 

This prayer is not for Believers in JESUS CHRIST. 

We may not pray as if Jesus was not the CHRIST, like that did not happen with his death.