Daniel 11:36 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. These are these first believers of the coming tribulation period .... all of the 144000 are of Jewish descent [Revelation 7:1-8] And they as mortals will follow the Lord during the period to preach the gospel of the coming millennial kingdom [Revelation 14:6] In contrast are those who have been made immortal in [Revelation 7:9-17] These immortals will come to the earth with the Lord at the ending of the tribulation period to fight the battle of Armageddon and then rule with the Lord as immortals over His millennial kingdom upon the earth just after [Revelation 20:4] .... those on thrones 6]6]6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. These are these first believers of the coming tribulation period .... all of the 144000 are of Jewish descent [Revelation 7:1-8] And they as mortals will follow the Lord during the period to preach the gospel of the coming millennial kingdom [Revelation 14:6] In contrast are those who have been made immortal in [Revelation 7:9-17] These immortals will come to the earth with the Lord at the ending of the tribulation period to fight the battle of Armageddon and then rule with the Lord as immortals over His millennial kingdom upon the earth just after [Revelation 20:4] .... those on thrones 6]6]6 Exactly Daniel, so then one must ask themselves how both Revelation and I Corinthians can both be true? The only answer is that all these events happen in conjunction with each other, otherwise known as the first resurrection in Revelation 20. Those sealed prior to the judgment in the tribulation are caught up in the gathering along with anyone else that qualifies as those who are alive and remain. One event. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 Only one problem .... there is a difference between the current ecclesia and those who will become believers during the tribulation period The first will be resurrected just before and return with the Lord at the end of the coming tribulation .... those who become believers and are killed in the tribulation will be resurrected at the ending of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Only one problem .... there is a difference between the current ecclesia and those who will become believers during the tribulation period The first will be resurrected just before and return with the Lord at the end of the coming tribulation .... those who become believers and are killed in the tribulation will be resurrected at the ending of it Not according to the passage in I Corinthians and the passage from Revelation. I Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. These people are dead already, right? Revelation 7:3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And these people are alive during the tribulation, right? I Corinthians 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. And here is the order given according to Paul in I Corinthians. I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. We see the same order given by Paul in I Thessalonians, the dead in Christ rise first. I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Then those who lived to His coming meet those who had already fallen asleep in the air, exact same order. And in Revelation. Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. The second death has no power over believers, the second death is the lake of fire where unbelievers go, thus ruling out that the dead who did not live again can be anything but unbelievers. Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Not possible to have two events. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Definitely 2 different events Those dead in Christ and those living just before [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; Revelation 3:10] .... and the martyrs from the tribulation period just after {revelation 20:4] Edited May 18, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Definitely 2 different events Those dead in Christ and those living just before [Revelation 3:10] .... and those from the tribulation period just after {revelation 20:4] Revelation 20: And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. These people died during the tribulation, right? I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. If there is another gathering where is that found in scripture? Paul doesn't seem to know anything about it considering each time he discusses the matter is in regards to the Second Coming. John doesn't seem to know anything about it either because he refers to the event in Revelation as the FIRST resurrection, which of course means no other resurrection came before it. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Wrong There is a difference between today and those who have died and those alive .... and then those just after the coming tribulation Those on thrones are today's immortals in Revelation 20:4 .... those resurrected are from the coming tribulation period Those believers living at the time will enter the Lord's millennial kingdom as mortals Edited May 18, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, Daniel 11:36 said: Wrong There is a difference between today and those who have died and those alive .... and then those just after the coming tribulation Those on thrones are today's immortals in Revelation 20:4 .... those resurrected are from the coming tribulation period Ok Daniel, then please explain to me why Paul in I Corinthians 15 continuously uses the word resurrection, and in particular, pay close attention to what he is discussing when he does. I Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? I Corinthians 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. I Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. I Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. There is a reason you don't find the word rapture in your bible, because it is a theology that comes from men, not God. Paul tells us all about the resurrection, and how it relates to the body being raised in incorruption. John tells us in the book of Revelation about a resurrection as well, the proof is found in scripture. Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolem Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 433 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 225 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/24/1990 Share Posted May 18, 2017 On 5/15/2017 at 4:11 PM, kenny2212 said: Missmuffet, read Rev. 14:9,10. Jesus saves. He saves now and he will after the rapture. It most assuredly will count. Why would a believer take the mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) "Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." It is a "first" resurrection of the martyrs of the tribulation The first resurrection is the resurrection to immortality of which there is more than one .... the resurrection of the pre-tribulation immortals just before and the Lord's two prophets and tribulation martyrs just after The "second" type of resurrection is the one at the great white throne judgment .... all of these will be sent to the lake of fire Edited May 18, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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