Revelation, Sequenced by the Actual Events

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Actually, if you read and understand Revelation 12:6-17, you would know that those who keep their faith in God, all the righteous Christians,  will be taken to a place of safety during the GT.

The Holocaust was over a several year period, the judgement that the Lord will instigate will be practically instantaneous. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5b-6, Isaiah 47:9, 1 Thess. 5:3

No, Revelation 12 pertains to Israel being taken to a safe place.  Tribulation believers will be martyred during at least the first half of the Tribulation.

The judgment of God will last 42 months; it will not be instantaneous.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

The tribulation is all about deception,not death and destruction

No, it is about judgment and there will be a lot of death occur during that time.

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

ahh no.

Luke 19:9

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Galatians 3:28

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Jesus came to save the lost not the "Jews."

He died for our sins so we Jew and Gentile are lost sheep, that are grateful to our King, Savoir, Sheppard, God Jesus the Messiah. We are all raised up into life into him and his kingdom, for we are now known as the Children, Temple, and Body of Christ. For the Gentiles are now graphed into the vine, the root of David, the one true God through his gift and sacrifice.

You missed the point entirely, I stated his Ministry was to Israel only, Jesus stated as much. I DID NOT say he did not come to die for all man-kinds sin, you said I said that, I guess, but I never said that.  The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. Lets look at Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

There is no difference between the Jew and he Gentile, you are correct, both can only come to God via Jesus Christs blood. But you miss the TIMING ANGLE....Just because Israel/Jewish peoples can only come to Jesus Christ via the Blood doesn't mean they will come to Christ at the same time as the Gentile Church.

Gentiles and Jews can both come to Christ now via the Blood, that's the EXACT SAME for both, they mist repent and turn from their sins via the Blood of Jesus. Likewise all Jewish peoples and Gentiles who miss the Rapture must still repent during the Tribulation in like manner, via the Blood, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE !! But there is a caveat many people miss.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in.

What does IN PART mean? It means of course Israel is blinded by God because of their sinning against Him, turning to false gods etc. etc. But there will be Messianic Jews such as yourself, and the Disciples, but 90-95 percent of the Jewish people will be BLINDED until the Church is Raptured. The Church Age so to speak. There are Jews in the Church age who accept Christ OF COURSE, but for the most part they are blinded. Likewise there are many Gentiles are never accept Christ before the Rapture. So both Jews and Gentiles can accept Christ before the Rapture, and both Jews and Gentiles can accept Christ after the Rapture. There is NO DIFFERENCE, as you see. We must all come to Christ via the Blood. BUT.....Israel and the Church are of course different Entities, the Church is Raptured, with the Messianic Jews in tow, and Israel, for the most part will remain on earth after the Rapture, they then REPENT, and are Protected by God, just before the Abomination of Desolation, and when the Anti-Christ moves in, then Israel will heed Jesus' voice and flee to the Wilderness. 

As per Salvation, it doesn't matter if you are a Jew or Gentile, all must come to Christ/God via the Blood of Jesus, as per their destinies, the Church will be Raptured, and Israel will be Protected in the Wilderness. Their will b Jews Raptured, there will be Gentiles left behind. 

10 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

in case you are wondering, I am a Messianic Jew.

 

I wasn't wandering, but I am always glad to hear from my Messianic brothers in Christ Jesus. God Bless brother. 

Think Daniels 70th Week Decree.....then look at the 6 things that must come to pass before the 70th Week can be fulfilled. Jesus is CUT-OFF (sacrificed/crucified), then we have 2000 years of the Church Age (Pentecost) then we have the Feast of Trumpets (The Last Trump calls the Church home). Then we have the Feast of Atonement, ISRAEL REPENTS.......Then we have the Feast of Tabernacle which means to DWELL WITH GOD. The First three Spring Feasts Jesus Fulfilled on the Cross (Passover Blood....Unleavened Bread/Without Sin and the First fruits/He rose from the Dead.....we are now in the Feast of Pentecost, or the Harvest.....Of Souls....Jesus is the sower, we are the Body, when Pentecost is over, we will be called home to be with Jesus, and Israel will then be dealt with, its the 70th Week....Israel must Atone before the 70th Week ends !! Then she can dwell with God, BUT ONLY after she Repents. 

As per the WHEAT, Jesus said the WHEAT and the TARES would grow together until the end, and be harvested at the same time. The Church is Raptured, so the Wheat can not grow together with the Tares until the end. The Wheat (Israel) is gathered into the Barn, meaning they have repented/Atoned and the Tares are bundled into the Grave where they will be Judged in 1000 years. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No one regardless of their view on the rapture, could ever be prepared for what is going to happen during the tribulation.   There is no way to prepare for it, as it is going to be a universal destruction like nothing anyone has ever seen.  The Holocaust will be a walk in the park by comparison. 

Exactly....and the Church is not going through it, even though some want to it seems.

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Actually, if you read and understand Revelation 12:6-17, you would know that those who keep their faith in God, all the righteous Christians,  will be taken to a place of safety during the GT.

 

That is Israel....you are replacing Israel with the Church, that is replacement theology. 

 

2 hours ago, Keras said:

The Holocaust was over a several year period, the judgement that the Lord will instigate will be practically instantaneous. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5b-6, Isaiah 47:9, 1 Thess. 5:3

The Day of the Lord is a 3 1/2 year period of Gods Wrath.....

 

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

The tribulation is all about deception,not death and destruction

I am not going to be here, Israel will be protected, he will deceive those who have been rejecting God. TRUE.

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Then you also understand you have taking the point out of context. Let me break it down for you in slow scrawl so you can understand, though I pretty much assume you to be trolling with this answer.  

 

What I understand is that you want to change His coming into Him not coming.  As part of the ministry here on WCF I don't troll, I point out errors when I see them with scripture.

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I understand you do not understand it.

 

I understand it just fine, which is why I can explain it with scripture.

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, some people are not logical thinkers, some are.

 

Clearly.  You've been given a lot of latitude on your treatment of others, but you seem determined to continue being abusive despite my gentle reminders.  The following is from the TOS, pay attention.

 

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned.

 

We don't have to agree you see, but you will treat others with respect per the rules you agreed to when you joined.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, wingnut- said:

What I understand is that you want to change His coming into Him not coming.  As part of the ministry here on WCF I don't troll, I point out errors when I see them with scripture.

 

The very reason I stopped replying to you before was every  reply post started out with YOU ARE WRONG....or God did't tell you that you are hearing from someone else etc. etc. I don't need the hassle sir. To me anyone I see that doesn't get the Rapture right, I am suspect of everything they say, that's just me. YOU POINT OUT ERRORS, or LET ME TELL YOU YOU'RE WRONG....Etc. etc. etc. 

You will not ever hear of me replying to you again. I don't need the negative static. Every one of my threads you have been in you try and take it off course, this thread is about the TIME-LINE of Revelation. 

 

[wingnut-]

9 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The very reason I stopped replying to you before was every  reply post started out with YOU ARE WRONG....or God did't tell you that you are hearing from someone else etc. etc. I don't need the hassle sir. To me anyone I see that doesn't get the Rapture right, I am suspect of everything they say, that's just me. YOU POINT OUT ERRORS, or LET ME TELL YOU YOU'RE WRONG....Etc. etc. etc. 

You will not ever hear of me replying to you again. I don't need the negative static. Every one of my threads you have been in you try and take it off course, this thread is about the TIME-LINE of Revelation. 

 

 

If it says something other than what scripture states it is an error    Scripture is never wrong my friend.  I have been pointing out issues with your timeline with scripture, you don't address the scripture I post, and instead attack me personally.  As far as whether you reply to me or not is irrelevant, I am not the only person you have attacked in this manner, and I am simply pointing out to you that it is a violation of the TOS.

His coming is talking about His return to earth, that is an important distinction to understand.  It will be the same as in the days of Noah until this occurs, that is what scripture says.

 

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Your timeline does not align with what scripture says.  My other point was in regards to the harlot and your claim she is judged in Revelation 6, there is not one verse in the entire chapter that speaks of the harlot or her being judged.  If it were so you would produce the scripture, instead you try to make it personal.  My pointing these discrepancies out is not personal.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

KERAS posts to me....no one heard me crying, some people might be from "Phily" and like the verbal jousting and banter, its not really me, but I am not going to cry about it, if someone jabs me I usually give them a jab back. But I don't cry about it. We know who does. 

KERAS....QUOTES just n this thread.

You say: The Army is the Church as verse 8 clearly states. Quote Rev Man.  I ought to accuse you for this falsehood, but I just ask that other members read Revelation 19:8 for themselves and see that it doesn't say that at all.

Your  belief that the church accompanies Jesus at His Return, is faulty and a serious error. It follows the major error of a rapture to heaven; a false idea that is never said to happen in the Bible.............{{{80 percent of Christendom believes as I DO }}}

So what RevMan says, is the absolute truth?   Very interesting.

You're a funny guy, RevMan.   Your opinion is factual?   It would be far better for you to admit you are wrong, than to find yourself still here when things get tough and maybe renounce God for not doing what you have been deceived to believe He would.

Well RevMan, while you continue to promote false teachings, I will continue to refute you. 

 

I disagree with most of it because he (ME) takes no cognizance of the truth that there is only one people of God.  And when I read the incredibly pretentious notion of humans riding white horses with Jesus at His Return, I threw the whole fabrication into the bin.

Why can't good Christian people see that we have work to do here on earth? That is our destiny and our great privilege, have none of the fable of skiving off, while the Jews get tribulated.

 

SO...I am a False Teacher, Pretentious, I have no cognizance of TRUTH, I am a funny guy (inference crazy), I should admit I am WRONG,  I believe in fables, I am in serious ERROR.......And last but not least I am accused of FALSEHOOD !! 

Move on...I am just pointing this out because we have a guy crying, so since I gave him what he gave back, I am OK, he didn't complain. My dad told me not to be bullied by anyone. 

 

[wingnut-]

7 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

SO...I am a False Teacher, Pretentious, I have no cognizance of TRUTH, I am a funny guy (inference crazy), I should admit I am WRONG,  I believe in fables, I am in serious ERROR.......And last but not least I am accused of FALSEHOOD !! 

Move on...I am just pointing this out because we have a guy crying, so since I gave him what he gave back, I am OK, he didn't complain. My dad told me not to be bullied by anyone. 

 

Rather than reply in the same manner why not report the post when you feel you are being attacked personally?  When I said you had done so to others as well I was not referring to just this thread, or limiting it to just people with a different view of the rapture.  There are a lot of posts every day, you can't expect us to keep up with every single one, that is what the report button is for.  People need to keep in mind that they are not having a private discussion, most eyes reading this thread do not post a thing.

God bless

[Keras]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You have that right of course, but you are in the vast minority of Christendom. It has always intrigued me to be honest, many of the ones who cite these verses only confuse themselves, not others. 75-85 percent of Christendom understand the Rapture and its timing, but according to post trib people everybody but them is confused. The Old Testament is about Israel, one day you will learn its not a good reference point when seeking answers about the Church per se, yes their are veiled messages about the Church like in Leviticus 23, but ONLY in Reference to Israel. 

Well, if the 'rapture' is from the father of lies, a Satanic deception and the Bible doesn't have a verse that proves it; then why do you believe it?

You are right, about 75-85% of Christians do believe in a rapture to heaven. This is often because that theory is all they have been taught and it also shows how successful Satan has been in deceiving so many.

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Dead Souls are Raptured....those under the Alter in Seal number 5 are the Martyrs of the Tribulation. They probably are in Heaven, I never thought about that, that's what the Scriptures say, but we see that the Dead Souls of the past 2000 years are STILL IN THE GRAVE.....1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead souls kept under the Altar in heaven, in Rev 6:9-11 are all the martyrs since Stephen.  But only the ones killed by the 'beast' are brought back to life at Jesus Return. Rev 20:4  They reign with Him, along with those who remain alive, ON EARTH for the 1000 years.