Revelation, Sequenced by the Actual Events

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Keras said:

This accusation is made from sheer ignorance. You completely fail to understand how the true people of God have always been those who are faithful to Him. The congregation in the desert, the 7000 of Elijah's time, the 3000 Jewish converts at Pentecost, the Pilgrim fathers and now all true Christian believers are the real Israel of God. Those who call themselves Israel and don't believe in the Lord, are of the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

Read John 3:16, does that say you need to be a Jew to be saved?   But, of course, I know why you have to promote a separate salvation for Christians and Jews. It is so the rapture to heaven theory can work. That false theory falls apart when scriptures like Romans 9:27 But of Israel, [the Jewish people] only a remnant will be saved.  and Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, + are read and not glossed over, as you do.

Though a lot of what you say is true, a lot of what you say misses the mark. If I die tomorrow I will die a Christian and an American. That will never change. Just because Israel goes through the 70th week, which God designed for them, you try and suggest that makes them different, even though I have clearly demonstrated that they will have to come to God via the blood of Jesus Christ, something you just can't comprehend for some reason. 

Israel is blinded IN PART until the time of he Gentiles is OVER.....That is not that hard to understand.

[Revelation Man]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am not calling anyone anti-Semitic, except for the early Church fathers.  They were virulently anti-Semitic and they are the ones responsible for this view that the Church is the new Israel.   It was developed from an anti-Semitism that views Israel as the emblem of God's contempt.   Anti-Semitism was very prevalent in the pagan world and pagans who got saved carried it over into the Church and entire theology was built around projecting their hatred of the Jews on to God.

No doubt about that. I have explained it to them multiple times, but just like the rapture, they think I am cuckoo for coco puffs lol. God is revealing many deep things in these last days brother, and many can't even receive the simple truths of God. 

God Bless, you know your bible brother, I can tell. I am called to prophecy, so I am usually on a ledge other aren't willing to venture out on. However understanding prophecy is a gift from God.

[George]

On 6/6/2017 at 7:03 PM, Revelation Man said:

This just proves to me you missed the reasoning gene somewhere down the line. 

This would be considered a personal attack.  Let's stick to the topic at hand and refrain from remarks like this.  I certainly don't want to ban you from your own thread when these types of things can easily be avoided.

God bless,

George

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

In Malachi he says Elijah will be sent to turn the hearts of fathers and children, people (Jews hearts will be turned). not all of Israel, just people that listen. please don't try to qualify or quantify by a scripture that is also expressed in Revelation 11 tells the power God gives them that will cause many men not race specific to turn to God by the wonders and power of God shown through them as the preach repentance.

 

That is exactly what I stated,ALL ISRAEL will turn to God, that doesn't mean ALL JEWS will be Saved, it means Israel as a Nation turns back to God. Those others God is not PROTECTING in the Wilderness, God sees Israel as DIFFERENT, He will Save/Spare them from extinction. 

 

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

Zechariah speaks of the remnant that remains faithful unto God through the tribulation and doesn't take the mark of the beast, most assuredly the ones that run to the hills. they will be the ones (in my opinion, no scripture to back it up) that remain on this earth reigning for 1000 years, before satan is released one last time before being put down for eternity.  I think they will be the ones paid to clean up all the dead bodies, and paid to find bones and burry them for the next 7 years.

On 6/7/2017 at 6:21 AM, Revelation Man said:

Those who flee and the Beheaded (Rev. 20:4) will reign with God 1000 years. I agree. I think maybe the Holy Spirit will clean it up, He destroys them, but that's just a guess, they will have Jesus living with them, and this planet will need rehabilitating quickly. Have you ever dissected Matthew 24 brother? Matthew 24 1-6 is the Temple/Jerusalem destruction, 7-13 is the 2000 year period between 70 AD and the Rapture (34-42 is, IMHO, the Rapture) 14-27 is the Tribulation period, 28-31 is the Second Coming, 32-34 is the parable of the Fig Tree. The reason I mention this is Jesus is warning Israel in like 21-27 not to come out of their "Safe Place" where the false prophet and ant-christ are trying to get them to "come to the desert or the Secret Chambers", Jesus them tells them where to look for him at, Look in the Eastern Skies, Immediately after the Tribulation of those days. In other words Jesus has warned them, do not fall for the lies of the anti-christ and false prophet. So he has warned the ones to flee what to look for. Amen.

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

yes they must atone (makes amends, change their heart, turn to God) that isn't God protecting them, that is them realizing they messed up and rejected the true and one son for the living God.

I understand, but that's not my point. I don't think God would LATER (After they Repent) protect them, if they had never Repented and accepted Jesus as their Messiah, you get my point? THEY DO of course repent, but if they hadn't of repented, God would not have turned His face back unto them. Of course God knows all things anyway.

5 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

see, as you know the Tribulation isn't God killing people, it is his wrath poured out on all mankind. People will be suffering, and in extreme anguish still refusing to turn to God. But there will be people that realize they missed the many signs and wonders, and rejected the true teaching of God over the years. So people will realize they messed up and return to God. Mostly Jews since they have the deepest teaching of God, but lack Jesus in their life. There will be a few Gentiles that turn, but most of them will be the ones that missed the rapture through false teaching, or rejection of teaching of God's truth. The only time it will be over (no chance of salvation, going to hell for eternity) for anyone is 3 things,

Yes, Israel turns to God because the Two-witnesses show up and preach the Gospel just before the Beast/Anti-Christ shows up or gains power for 42 months. Gentiles can be saved at this time, they are the REMNANT of the Church (Rev. 12:17) and Israel is saved a a Nation. Not all Jews of course, but Israel is saved a a Nation, if only 2 people were saved, and the had kids etc. etc. etc. ALL ISRAEL would be saved because the SEED is intact. Bit of course many more will be saved/protected by God in the Wilderness. And I have no doubt, many Jews will decide to serve Satans side, like in the desert, or the many times the Kings worshiped false gods etc. etc. In the Desert as in "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve". 

5 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

yes the 144,000 are the saints of God that have kept themselves pure unto him (virgins, they haven't let the sin of this world corrupt them.) they were the first fruits. are they here today and have remained pure? where they in Jesus time and bought through his blood (some of his students that were pure)? where they the first fruits (first born and redeemed /bought) as instructed by God to Moses? or is it a combination of all three, we don't know, but we do know they are all from one of the tribes, all children from the line of Israel.  

Revelation 14:4-5  4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.

I agree, when I am not given something I try not to conjecture to much. Although I was given this, Rev. 14, 16, ad 18 is the same events as told differently. Ones is treated as the Harvest, one as the Seven Last Seals and and Jesus conquering evil, and one as the Judgments of God come against Evil Babylon. 

5 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

Jesus came to save all Jew and Gentile his actions prove it, and his directions to his disciples tell them his plan.

Jesus brought salvation first to the Israelite, then the Gentile. 

I agree, but Israel, for the most part will be blinded until the Church is Raptured.  But there are some Messianic Jews. 

5 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

Also look at the woman at the well,  in John 4 he talks with her and brings salvation to her. If he was planning on bringing salvation to the Jews alone, the conversation would have never happened, unless you Believe Jesus made a mistake or didn't have a plan that was unfolding before the readers eyes. then it progresses to other Samaritans receiving his living water.

 

Again, it seems subtle, but you miss something here. Jesus never went unto any of these Gentiles, they came to him. He told the Woman she was a Dog, and to go away, but she PERSISTED, thus via great faith Jesus rewarded her. Likewise the Centurion came to Jesus and told Jesus, just say the word and it will be done. Then we have the Woman at the well, she also came unto Jesus. Like I stated, it was not his ministry, but that doesn't mean he was not dying for them also, or did not have compassion for them, but his ministry was to Israel only. Paul was given the ministry to the Gentiles. 

God Bless

[iamlamad]

On 6/3/2017 at 4:12 PM, OneLight said:

You forgot to add "according to Revelation Man" in your title.

I agree.  But, he did go to a lot of work to show his theories.

Edited June 8, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 6/3/2017 at 4:30 PM, Revelation Man said:

Since I wrote it that would be rather obvious would it not?  Here I spent about 8 hours on this and the first thing I get is a jab, no one has to agree, we actually have people saying the Seals have already been opened. Everything we post is our opinions, unless we are hearing from the Holy Spirit.  

 

 

I agree. I have said that the first 5 seals have already been opened. And I have heard from the Holy Spirit. John tells us the timing of the first seals in chapter 5. In the vision, John got the see the moment Jesus ascended into heaven, which would be right after He told Mary not to touch Him, for He had not yet ascended.  When it time would that have been? Of course, around 32 or 33 AD.  It was a vision of the past. How can we know that? We read and pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal HIS meaning. Oh, first one must take off any preconceived glasses and read as if it is the very first time.

The first thing we notice odd in this vision is that Jesus was NOT immediately seen at the right hand of the Father. This was a vision probably seen by John around 95 AD. Jesus had ascended 60 some years previous to that time. We have many verses telling us Jesus went to be at the right hand of the Father. Stephen SAW Him there. So we must ask, WHY was Jesus not there?  In all of history past, as far back and anyone wishes to go, before anything was created, The second person of the trinity was at the right hand of the first person of the trinity. If we wish to go millions of years into our future today, the SON will be at the right hand of the Father. Not one, not two, but MANY verses tell us He ascended to be at the right hand of the FAther.

However, there was one tiny tiny moment in time, 32 or so years, when the second person of the Godhead was NOT at the right hand of the Father. Why? Because He left Heaven and came to earth, to be born of a virgin. So in the vision, what time was it when John first looked into the throne room? It had to be some time during those 32 years He was on earth.

Next, John saw this mighty angel ask WHO IS WORTHY? And John watched a search take place, first in heaven, then on earth, and then under the earth, for one worthy. But this search ended in failure. If one could read between the lines, one could guess this had been an ONGOING search - perhaps from the days of Adam. The key point is, NO MAN was found, so John wept much. AGain reading between the lines, we can know that as soon as that search that ended in failure ended, another search was started. It was taking place while John was weeping. But now, SOMETHING CHANGED: suddenly someone was found.  Without John telling us, we know another search was started, because if no search, no one would be found.

So what hand changed? TIME had changed. If we read ahead we know that JESUS was found worthy. WHY was He found worthy? Because He had become the REDEEMER of mankind. So what could have happened in Christ's time on earth to cause Him to go from NOT being worthy to becoming worthy? I think the answer is obvious: He rose from the dead. So now we have pinpointed a time during the 32 years He was on earth. He had just rose from the dead. And at that moment He was found worthy.

If we read in the gospels, we see the story of Mary. She was the first to see Him in His Resurrection body. And Jesus told her that He had NOT YET ascended. Therefore, when John turned and found someone NEW had just entered the throne room "as a Lamb having been slain" we can know that Jesus had JUST ASCENDED. It had to be a time right after He told Mary He had not yet ascended.  Hebrews tells us He had business in heaven with His blood. The key point is, John saw this VERY MOMENT Jesus ascended in to heaven. So John was seeing an event that in reality had taken place about 60 years before.

The next thing we can notice is that the Holy Spirit was there in the throne room - as the seven spirits of God. Yet, we also know that Jesus told His disciples that as soon as He ascended, He would send Him down. So we know that in chapter 4, the TIME is before Jesus ascended and before He was found worthy. So it was a time before He rose from the dead. However, John tells us that the moment Jesus arrived in heaven, the Holy Spirit was sent down. This is one more proof of timing: it is around 32 AD.

What is the first thing Jesus does in this vision, after the worship? He goes immediately and gets the book out of the hand of the Father and begins to break seals. WHEN? Around 32 AD. No one can find 2000 years anywhere in those verses, because it is not there.

What we learn then from chapters 4 & 5, is TIMING: the timing of the breaking of the first seals.

So we get to chapter 6 and see the first seal broken. John used the color white for this horse. He used the color white 17 more times in this book, and each time it was to represent righteousness. It would be ludicrous to even imagine that this one use of "white" could mean evil or deception. Neither God nor John would do that. In other words, we can be SURE that the color white here is also to represent righteousness.

We see then, a rider on a white horse, going forth conquering and to conquer (present and future?) Yet, the Greek word translated here for "conquer" was translated many times as "overcoming." So this horse and rider are to represent a RIGHTEOUS force sent forth overcoming and to overcome. We must ask then, what entity on earth was seen as righteous by our Heavenly Father around 32 AD? There can be only one answer: the infant church. They were sent forth to make disciples of all nations. They were to take the GOSPEL or the good news from Jerusalem, and then spread it around the world. We know that Philip went to Samaria.

AT this time, 32 AD, WHO was the god of this world? Of course we know, it was and still is, Satan. Was Satan to just step aside and allow the gospel to enter new territories held my principalities and powers of the devil? OF COURSE NOT! There had to be OVERCOMING where ever the gospel went. We see this rider had a bow, a weapon of war, but no arrows. I believe this represents the fact that the church had weapons but they are SPIRITUAL weapons.

Next we see a rider on a red horse, with a sword, then a rider on a black horse bringing famine and hunger, and finally a rider on a pale horse bringing Death.  And we are told that power was given unto them (the red, the black and the pale) to kill with the sword, with hunger, and with death.  However, these three that ride together are LIMITED in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the surface of the earth. WE can also know, this 1/4 will be centered on Jerusalem where the gospel began. So this would take in Europe, the Middle East and AFrica. Where have the two great world wars started? Of course, Europe. Where did the black plague hit twice, and each time kill (death) about 1/3 of the people? Of course, Europe. Where have the famines been in our lifetiime? AFrica.

It seems then, that these three, the Red horse and rider, the Black horse and rider, and the Pale horse and rider are to reprent the devil and his efforts to stop the advance of the gospel.

Finally we get to seal # 5, the martyrs of the church age. Remember, it is 32 AD. That would be thousands of years before any martyrs of the Day of the Lord, still future to us. No, we can be sure, these are church age martyrs. A 70th week martyr would know they only had to wait for the end of the 7 years. But a church age martyr, such as Stephen, would have NO IDEA how long it would be before judgment could come. They are told they must wait for the very last martyr to be killed as they were killed - as church age martyrs. In other words, they were told they will have to wait for the END of the CHURCH AGE.

So what is the very next event John covers? Of course, the 6th seal and the beginning of judgment. In other words, those of the 5th seal have to wait only to the 6th seal - but that time has stretched now almost 2000 years.

The Holy Spirit then, causing John to write, started at the church age, and advanced to the end of the church age, in the first 5 chapters of the book. The church has been waiting - waiting for the final martyr  - between the 5th and 6th seal, since 32 AD. I believe we are VERY CLOSE now to the breaking of the 6th seal and the start of the Wrath of God.

HOWEVER, God has promised us that He would not set any appointments for us with His wrath. We, the church, must be OUT OF HERE before the 6th seal. Therefore, I place the rapture of the church in Revelation a moment before the 6th seal.  It was no mistake then, that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in the next chapter.

Paul told us that at the same moment of the rapture, there would be "sudden destruction." When the dead in Christ rise, this will cause a world wide earthquake. That earthquake, the very same earthquake as seen at the 6th seal, will be Paul's Sudden destruction.

At that moment in time, a split second after the dead in Christ have risen, two groups of people will get two different results: those living in the light of the gospel, and are born again, will get "salvation" or get raptured, and will get to "live together with Him." (So shall we ever be with the Lord.) AT the same moment in time, those living in darkness will suffer this worldwide earthquake. No one can escape, for it will be worldwide. The dead in Christ are worldwide.

Therefore, John and Paul are in perfect agreement: the rapture will be before the start of the 70th week, which will begin at the 7th seal.

[Keras]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Or it shows you and others like you are easily deceived. And the bible clearly have verses I have cited to you, ones your clearly know about in Thessalonians and Corinthians. Remember what Jesus told the disciples, he gave them the word in parables, because it  is not given unto the world to understand the things of God. Paul clearly explained the Rapture, you just don't want to hear it. 

We will soon see just who it is that has been deceived.

The verses that you think are about a rapture, do not say that God will take people to heaven at all. Paul does not 'clearly explain' a rapture removal to heaven. What he does make clear, is that there is only one people of God and only a remnant of Israel [the Jews] will be saved. Romans 9:27

Why I 'don't want to hear' the rapture, is not because I don't like the idea, but because I know what God has actually planned for His people. How we Christians will all be gathered and settled into all of the holy Land, where we live in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Rev 7:9

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Again, it seems subtle, but you miss something here. Jesus never went unto any of these Gentiles, they came to him. He told the Woman she was a Dog, and to go away, but she PERSISTED, thus via great faith Jesus rewarded her. Likewise the Centurion came to Jesus and told Jesus, just say the word and it will be done. Then we have the Woman at the well, she also came unto Jesus. Like I stated, it was not his ministry, but that doesn't mean he was not dying for them also, or did not have compassion for them, but his ministry was to Israel only. Paul was given the ministry to the Gentiles. 

God Bless

Good point, Revelation Man. Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But when He died, He died for all.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Keras said:

We will soon see just who it is that has been deceived.

The verses that you think are about a rapture, do not say that God will take people to heaven at all. Paul does not 'clearly explain' a rapture removal to heaven. What he does make clear, is that there is only one people of God and only a remnant of Israel [the Jews] will be saved. Romans 9:27

Why I 'don't want to hear' the rapture, is not because I don't like the idea, but because I know what God has actually planned for His people. How we Christians will all be gathered and settled into all of the holy Land, where we live in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Rev 7:9

 Like you said, very soon we will all see. I believe it will be ISRAEL living in Israel. But since most of the world will have either been raptured to heaven or died, there will be very few people in their natural bodies to repopulate the earth. Mostly my guess is it will be ISRAEL - those descendants of Jacob that survived. Didn't God say the time would come when seven women would cling to one man? Most of the men alive today will be gone. There will be few men left alive to begin the Millennial reign.

[Keras]

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

HOWEVER, God has promised us that He would not set any appointments for us with His wrath. We, the church, must be OUT OF HERE before the 6th seal. Therefore, I place the rapture of the church in Revelation a moment before the 6th seal.  It was no mistake then, that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in the next chapter.

Paul told us that at the same moment of the rapture, there would be "sudden destruction." When the dead in Christ rise, this will cause a world wide earthquake. That earthquake, the very same earthquake as seen at the 6th seal, will be Paul's Sudden destruction.

Just a few errors here.

God did say we are not appointed to His wrath, but He did not say He would remove us from the earth to avoid it. Many prophesies says He will protect us during it.

You are right that the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will change the world, but we Christians look forward to a blessed future, as we all live in the holy Land.  That is where we are, as described in Revelation 7:9-14, come thru the great devastation of the Sixth Seal. It is sheer wishful thinking that there will be a rapture then, 1 Thess 5:1-11 does not even hint of such a thing. It says we must put on the breastplate of faith and the helmet of salvation and stand strong when these things happen.