Did JESUS live in the past?

[Mike 2]

I've posed these questions in another thread but it may be appropriate to ask it separately.

Are there any specific references to JESUS having been alive or interacting with humans in the past (the Old Testament)....not the Christ, or the Son, but JESUS? And if so, what is the context, is it actually using the name Jesus to direct us to the Son or the Christ?

Please use a reference and keep in mind context.

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Mike 2
looking for references to the OT

[OneLight]

57 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I've posed these questions in another thread but it may be appropriate to ask it separately.

Are there any specific references to JESUS having been alive or interacting with humans in the past....not the Christ, or the Son, but JESUS? And if so, what is the context, is it actually using the name Jesus to direct us to the Son or the Christ?

Please use a reference and keep in mind context.

 

Not sure what you are asking as Jesus, Christ and the Son cannot be separated.  Where there is one, there are the others as well.

[Guest BacKaran]

Time is a concept created by God for mankind. The Trinity has always existed.

Preincarnate Christ is everywhere in the OT, just a couple of references. Hermanuetics helps one understand this.

The burning bush for Moses

The arm of the Lord

The angel of the Lord

Who ate lunch with Abraham?

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by BacKaran

[Mike 2]

1 hour ago, BacKaran said:

Time is a concept created by God for mankind. The Trinity has always existed.

Preincarnate Christ is everywhere in the OT, just a couple of references. Hermanuetics helps one understand this.

The burning bush for Moses

The arm of the Lord

The angel of the Lord

Who ate lunch with Abraham?

 

So if The Son created everything, when we see the burning bush or the arm for example...are you saying we are seeing the Christ created,

or are we seeing a burning bush and an arm ? (and the angel and the lunch guest)

Do these passages say that what we are seeing is Jesus?

Or is this the Son of God at work?

 

[HAZARD]

4 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

I've posed these questions in another thread but it may be appropriate to ask it separately.

Are there any specific references to JESUS having been alive or interacting with humans in the past....not the Christ, or the Son, but JESUS? And if so, what is the context, is it actually using the name Jesus to direct us to the Son or the Christ?

Please use a reference and keep in mind context.

 

John 1:  1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2, The same was in the beginning with God.
    3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

John 1: 14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word, who was with God and also was God, and has been God and with God throughout eternity past,  as a member of the Godhead, He became flesh so that He could die for our sins. As God he could not die, but as a man He could die.

It was He who created everything, spoke with Adam appeared to and spoke with Abraham and Moses.

The Word, before He became flesh even spoke with and wrestled with Jacob, and named him Israel.

Gen. 32:24-39;

   24, And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
    25, And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
    26, And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
    27, And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
    28, And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
    29, And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

 

[Mike 2]

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

John 1:  1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2, The same was in the beginning with God.
    3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

John 1: 14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word, who was with God and also was God, and has been God and with God throughout eternity past,  as a member of the Godhead, He became flesh so that He could die for our sins. As God he could not die, but as a man He could die.

It was He who created everything, spoke with Adam appeared to and spoke with Abraham and Moses.

The Word, before He became flesh even spoke with and wrestled with Jacob, and named him Israel.

Gen. 32:24-39;

   24, And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
    25, And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
    26, And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
    27, And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
    28, And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
    29, And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

 

I agree the WORD was made flesh, that He became flesh (something created)

To say "The Word, before He became flesh even spoke with and wrestled with Jacob, and named him Israel.".... would indicate that the Word had to become flesh in order to wrestle with Jacob. I understand that you are saying that the Word became physical at another time before incarnating as Jesus.

The passage you have highlighted indicates a time that God choose to manifest (create) in the form of a man to wrestle with Jacob.  But there isn't anything indicating it was "Jesus". 

I think I see the assumption that if the Word became flesh in the NT and we know that to be Jesus then any manifestation in the OT is Jesus, but was the burning bush and the arm that BacKaran referred to in his post above Jesus......or the Son, at work?

 

 

 

[MorningGlory]

There are several historical references to Jesus, the Christ outside the  Bible.  Although, for me, the Bible is enough. 

http://reasonabletheology.org/jesus-outside-the-bible-1-tacitus/

From the article:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular "

[Mike 2]

7 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

There are several historical references to Jesus, the Christ outside the  Bible.  Although, for me, the Bible is enough. 

http://reasonabletheology.org/jesus-outside-the-bible-1-tacitus/

From the article:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular "

Thanks for bringing that up. I have edited my OP to identify that I am looking for references to occurrences in the Old Testament

[Mike 2]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

Not sure what you are asking as Jesus, Christ and the Son cannot be separated.  Where there is one, there are the others as well.

I can agree with that, in the sense of what they mean and stand for, starting 2000 years ago.

I don't think I can before that though, because then Jesus would have had to be alive in eternity past.

[HAZARD]

34 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I agree the WORD was made flesh, that He became flesh (something created)

To say "The Word, before He became flesh even spoke with and wrestled with Jacob, and named him Israel.".... would indicate that the Word had to become flesh in order to wrestle with Jacob. I understand that you are saying that the Word became physical at another time before incarnating as Jesus.

The passage you have highlighted indicates a time that God choose to manifest (create) in the form of a man to wrestle with Jacob.  But there isn't anything indicating it was "Jesus". 

I think I see the assumption that if the Word became flesh in the NT and we know that to be Jesus then any manifestation in the OT is Jesus, but was the burning bush and the arm that BacKaran referred to in his post above Jesus......or the Son, at work?

 

 

 

El, is the Hebrew word for "God" in 250 places in Scripture. It means the Strong One, or Elohim the Omnipotent, while Elohim is God the Creator, putting His omnipotence to work. All three persons, the Father, the Word, who became the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all omnipotent.

Elyon, is the Hebrew word for "Most High," and it is so translated 40 times in Scripture. It means Supreme, Most High, Highest, Lofty. It is El, the posessor of Heaven and Earth, and Elohim, the Creator of Heaven and Earth. It is translated "High" (Ps. 78:35; Dan. 4:2); and "higher" in referring to Jesus as God's "first born" (Ps. 89:27). Jesus of the New Testament is never called the Most High, but only the Son of the Most High God (Mark 5:7; Luke 1:32-35; 8:28). Angels, when Christ was born, sang to the "God in the Highest," who was not Jesus (Luke 2:14). The Father is still the "head of Christ" (1 Cor. 11:3); so He is rightfully the Most High God.