Did JESUS live in the past?

[angels4u]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Friend, I call you friend even though I don't know you, but because of the way you are thinking. 

Let me put my question in a different way. 

Mary before she gives birth she has name her baby Jesus. 

So we can say before baby Jesus enter our world, by ejecting himself,

(or by the natural design that makes it happen that way)

Out from Mary and breathing for the very first time our air, and now he is ours, one of us. 

And he lived in that state for about thirty three years. 

But before that he lived in the womb for nine months. 

Did he create anything in the world during those nine months. 

The answer is obvious, and his mother can give witness that he never left her tummy. 

And his mother can give many witnesses, that when he was born in a created world. 

The first man was created by someone else, the whole universe was all ready at work.

Now his mother would have told him stories about the stars y the moon, and she would have to answer questions about who did this and who did that. 

Mary whould have recounded the stories from the Bible. 

And Mary would tell him we worship the God of the Creation. 

So I am asking the question , if we have asked Mary who Created the world and everything in it, she would denied that was JESUS, and she had the scriptures to prove it. 

So this is the question: 

Did JESUS created anything before he was born. 

The answer is the same as his mother NO. 

How you understand things yourself. 

Did JESUS created anything before he was born? 

12

You said:

Out from Mary and breathing for the very first time our air, and now he is ours, one of us. 

I believe this article from igotquestion tells it all the way it really ,don't you think?

 

Question: "Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?"

Answer: Since Jesus’ conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary (Luke 1:26-38), the real identity of Jesus Christ has always been questioned by skeptics. It began with Mary's fiancé, Joseph, who was afraid to marry her when she revealed that she was pregnant (Matthew 1:18-24). He took her as his wife only after the angel confirmed to him that the child she carried was the Son of God.

Hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, the prophet Isaiah foretold the coming of God's Son: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). When the angel spoke to Joseph and announced the impending birth of Jesus, he alluded to Isaiah’s prophecy: "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God with us’)" (Matthew 1:23). This did not mean they were to name the baby Immanuel; it meant that "God with us" was the baby’s identity. Jesus was God coming in the flesh to dwell with man.

Jesus Himself understood the speculation about His identity. He asked His disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" (Matthew 16:13; Mark 8:27). The answers varied, as they do today. Then Jesus asked a more pressing question: "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15). Peter gave the right answer: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16). Jesus affirmed the truth of Peter’s answer and promised that, upon that truth, He would build His church (Matthew 16:18).

The true nature and identity of Jesus Christ has eternal significance. Every person must answer the question Jesus asked His disciples: "Who do you say that I am?"

He gave us the correct answer in many ways. In John 14:9-10, Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Bible is clear about the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ (see John 1:1-14). Philippians 2:6-7 says that, although Jesus was "in very nature God, He did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." Colossians 2:9 says, “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Jesus is fully God and fully man, and the fact of His incarnation is of utmost importance. He lived a human life but did not possess a sin nature as we do. He was tempted but never sinned (Hebrews 2:14-18; 4:15). Sin entered the world through Adam, and Adam’s sinful nature has been transferred to every baby born into the world (Romans 5:12)—except for Jesus. Because Jesus did not have a human father, He did not inherit a sin nature. He possessed the divine nature from His Heavenly Father.

Jesus had to meet all the requirements of a holy God before He could be an acceptable sacrifice for our sin (John 8:29; Hebrews 9:14). He had to fulfill over three hundred prophecies about the Messiah that God, through the prophets, had foretold (Matthew 4:13-14; Luke 22:37; Isaiah 53; Micah 5:2).

Since the fall of man (Genesis 3:21-23), the only way to be made right with God has been the blood of an innocent sacrifice (Leviticus 9:2; Numbers 28:19; Deuteronomy 15:21; Hebrews 9:22). Jesus was the final, perfect sacrifice that satisfied forever God's wrath against sin (Hebrews 10:14). His divine nature made Him fit for the work of Redeemer; His human body allowed Him to shed the blood necessary to redeem. No human being with a sin nature could pay such a debt. No one else could meet the requirements to become the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (Matthew 26:28; 1 John 2:2). If Jesus were merely a good man as some claim, then He had a sin nature and was not perfect. In that case, His death and resurrection would have no power to save anyone.

Because Jesus was God in the flesh, He alone could pay the debt we owed to God. His victory over death and the grave won the victory for everyone who puts their trust in Him (John 1:12; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 17).

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-in-the-flesh.html

[Mike 2]

On 6/16/2017 at 2:54 PM, angels4u said:

Genisis 1:26

New International Version
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

God-Jesus and the Holy Spirit are us  in that verse and they are God. Jesus was there to create everything..

If  a person can't believe that for some reason, that person can't understand what the Bible talks about , it all starts by believing that Jesus is God.

If a person teaches otherwise we have the Bible to let us know that:

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."

1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."

2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

 

1 John 2:18-19 "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us."

I vaguely remember discussing this topic before and don't really remember for 100 % if you believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God?

Father-Son and Holy Spirit and those are One.

Hi angels4u,

I find what you have written interesting in that many of us look at the verses like you have quoted and consider them the same way. However, if we take the time to take the words apart and look at them closer we see that there is a deeper meaning.

You said ...Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

"God-Jesus and the Holy Spirit are us  in that verse and they are God. Jesus was there to create everything."

The bible says:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Col 1:15  The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation  Col 1:16  For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him. 

Sorry.....it does not say JESUS was there, it says the Word/ the Son was, you are not separating the physical from the spiritual.

Other than to simply state it, I don't see where you have made the connection that Jesus was there to create everything.

 

You are actually doing what we all do without realizing it (and I'm part of the all), lumping the Son, the Christ and Jesus all into one category. 

There is nothing wrong with doing that, provided all of the people in the conversation are aware of what we mean.

What I am saying is that we need to be aware that there is a difference and it can be confusing to someone that is trying to understand Christianity because of the assumptions we make (probably subconsciously) when we lump these terms together. 

Even the word CHRIST should be understood as THE Christ, when we do that it gives us a different understanding because where we see the word Christ being used can change the whole meaning of a passage as it may no longer be referring to a person but what that person did/ does. Why the word "the" has been dropped I don't know, I've asked a friend of mine that has a Phd. in New Testament textual criticism and he says it should be there and that it is definitely understood to be "the" Christ.

You said: The Bible is clear about the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ (see John 1:1-14). Philippians 2:6-7 says that, although Jesus was "in very nature God, He did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." This verse doesn't say just Jesus, you have stressed that but ignored the word Christ and it's meaning, in so doing we the readers are missing what the verse is actually addressing. It is talking about his nature.... the Christ. The word Jesus is used to identify the physical manifestation and everything we see the Christ working through.

I don't think that was your intention at all, this is something we all do, we all bring are own theology to the text . I know I've read something for years, have a conversation with someone, go back and read the text and ...oh snap....I misunderstood that.

 Colossians 2:9 says, “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” this says Christ, not Jesus. Christ lives IN the bodily form.....of Jesus
We quickly make the jump from Christ to Jesus because we most often see them together.

When we look at the verse quoted above 1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh ......and understand that it is really saying "Jesus THE Christ" we see that the writer is pointing to something we know and see to direct us to something in the spiritual....the Christ. ....in the flesh... is indicating there is a spiritual and a physical component here, the "flesh" is the creation we call Jesus, the Christ is the spiritual in the flesh that the verse is directing us to recognize. Isn't it interesting to note that it is talking about a spirit confessing.

Another example of how we get confused if we drop the word "the" is when speaking of THE HOLY SPIRIT. There seems to be a fad to drop the word THE before Holy Spirit.... it changes the meaning from the Holy Spirit into something different. I believe people are doing that intentionally to personalize the Holy Spirit. But I don't see it written that way in the bible except in a few occasions where, when taken in context the meaning does not change. Personally, I don't think we should be encouraging referring to the Holy Spirit as "Holy Spirit". 

I myself do not deny that when I look at the man that walked the earth 2000 years ago, the man that died on the cross, the man named Jesus  that his Spirit was the Son of God incarnate in the flesh and that in him and what I see him do, that he is the Messiah/ Christ. I can easily say, and do, that Jesus is the Christ. But I am not saying that same body that died on the cross, that was born 34 years prior to that, existed in eternity past. The bible doesn't tell me that and I think we often use the name of Jesus in ways we don't realize can be confusing to some.

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Mike 2

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

Hi angels4u,

I find what you have written interesting in that many of us look at the verses like you have quoted and consider them the same way. However, if we take the time to take the words apart and look at them closer we see that there is a deeper meaning.

You said ...Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

"God-Jesus and the Holy Spirit are us  in that verse and they are God. Jesus was there to create everything."

The bible says:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Col 1:15  The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation  Col 1:16  For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him. 

Sorry.....it does not say JESUS was there, it says the Word/ the Son was, you are not separating the physical from the spiritual.

Other than to simply state it, I don't see where you have made the connection that Jesus was there to create everything.

 

You are actually doing what we all do without realizing it (and I'm part of the all), lumping the Son, the Christ and Jesus all into one category. 

There is nothing wrong with doing that, provided all of the people in the conversation are aware of what we mean.

What I am saying is that we need to be aware that there is a difference and it can be confusing to someone that is trying to understand Christianity because of the assumptions we make (probably subconsciously) when we lump these terms together. 

Even the word CHRIST should be understood as THE Christ, when we do that it gives us a different understanding because where we see the word Christ being used can change the whole meaning of a passage as it may no longer be referring to a person but what that person did/ does. Why the word "the" has been dropped I don't know, I've asked a friend of mine that has a Phd. in New Testament textual criticism and he says it should be there and that it is definitely understood to be "the" Christ.

You said: The Bible is clear about the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ (see John 1:1-14). Philippians 2:6-7 says that, although Jesus was "in very nature God, He did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." This verse doesn't say just Jesus, you have stressed that but ignored the word Christ and it's meaning, in so doing we the readers are missing what the verse is actually addressing. It is talking about his nature.... the Christ. The word Jesus is used to identify the physical manifestation and everything we see the Christ working through.

I don't think that was your intention at all, this is something we all do, we all bring are own theology to the text . I know I've read something for years, have a conversation with someone, go back and read the text and ...oh snap....I misunderstood that.

 Colossians 2:9 says, “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” this says Christ, not Jesus. Christ lives IN the bodily form.....of Jesus
We quickly make the jump from Christ to Jesus because we most often see them together.

When we look at the verse quoted above 1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh ......and understand that it is really saying "Jesus THE Christ" we see that the writer is pointing to something we know and see to direct us to something in the spiritual....the Christ. ....in the flesh... is indicating there is a spiritual and a physical component here, the "flesh" is the creation we call Jesus, the Christ is the spiritual in the flesh that the verse is directing us to recognize. Isn't it interesting to note that it is talking about a spirit confessing.

Another example of how we get confused if we drop the word "the" is when speaking of THE HOLY SPIRIT. There seems to be a fad to drop the word THE before Holy Spirit.... it changes the meaning from the Holy Spirit into something different. I believe people are doing that intentionally to personalize the Holy Spirit. But I don't see it written that way in the bible except in a few occasions where, when taken in context the meaning does not change. Personally, I don't think we should be encouraging referring to the Holy Spirit as "Holy Spirit". 

I myself do not deny that when I look at the man that walked the earth 2000 years ago, the man that died on the cross, the man named Jesus  that his Spirit was the Son of God incarnate in the flesh and that in him and what I see him do, that he is the Messiah/ Christ. I can easily say, and do, that Jesus is the Christ. But I am not saying that same body that died on the cross, that was born 34 years prior to that, existed in eternity past. The bible doesn't tell me that and I think we often use the name of Jesus in ways we don't realize can be confusing to some.

 

It was appointed from the very beginning that the Savior of the world will be the CHRIST. 

To say that we must find the whole world lost and in need of the CHRIST. 

Adam and Eve at the beginning were not lost and we didn't have anyone else, so at the time before they were lost there is not need for the CHRIST. 

But as soon as they were lost, we have the first reference to the CHRIST. 

(We must notice that the word "CHRIST" was not used that time). 

But the words "the seed of the woman" was used, 

These words were spoken by the Creator, who is the same one who gave life to the first man Adam. 

He is the "Father" of Adam, according to the life in Adam. 

What kind of Life he had , the same kind of Life he gave to Adam. 

(So later when we see the Creator born in our world as the seed of the woman, we know what kind of Life he had, the same life as Adam, at the time of his creation . 

At the time after the fall, when God got together, Adam, Eve and the Serpent, and God pronounced the consiquences of what Happened between Adam, Eve and the Serpent, it is important to note how God address the Serpent. 

We may deduce from what God said and from our understanding that we live after the resurrection, in the knew Covenant that God between the lines said something he and the Serpent knew, that the first pair and their descendants are the captives of the Serpent, and will be this way, till the dwell between the seed of the woman and him, and the outcome of that dwell, thus giving hope to Adam and Eve and their descendants, that they will have to wait till that time, to be together with their Creator, and their God. 

Here we have the promise to them, that God has appointed a deliverer for them. 

But at the same time God continues to say that will never be a Deliverer for the Serpent, (and the fallen Angels),  by saying you will crawl on the dust and you will eat dust forever.  And the Devil will loose his authority over the Human race. 

That God has a Savior only for Mankind .

In this passage we see that no Savior can come from Adam and or his seed. 

We also have the promise that the woman will give birth to the deliverer and a man will have nothing to do with that. No man can claim that he is his Son. 

From this passage we know that the deliverer will be a man, a Human been, not an Angel. 

At that moment he said "the seed of the woman", but he didn't made any reference to the gender. 

I mentioned that so we learn to be critical readers. 

If we follow up the events that unfolded, till the clear promises, through the prophets, we can see that the only one who can be the seed of the woman and fulfilled the profile of Christ, the deliverer , the Savior of the world from the captivity of the Devil, must be a seed of the woman with the God's life in him, and not been Spiritual dead, not to identify with the Devil, who one time he had life in him, but as a result of his disobedience he found himself with death in him and not life the first ever to be found with death in him, instant of life.

And the only one who had the life in him is non other than the one who gave life to Adam. 

So the seed of the woman can only be a man with the life in him. 

We may say that the Creator when he just created Adam, he said to him self, that's how I will look my self someday. 

And when he created Eve, the first woman, he may have said, I created a woman, which I will call my mother one day , when she will give birth to me. 

The Lord God knew that when he said the seed of the woman he was referring to himself. 

Isaiah 9:6 and ....

You have increase the people, but you have not increase their joy. (You are not the one). 

And continue to say who will increase their joy and deliver them from their fallen state of death, from the captivity of the Devil and Death, by giving them life, the life of God in his name, and will be call the Everlasting Father, Emanuel, the seed of the virgin. 

For him to be call the Everlasting Father, it means the end of the Father who couldn't increase their joy. And the coming of the Everlasting Father, who will provide everything they need, so their joy can be full. 

JESUS the SON of the Heavenly Father.