Matthew 24: Rapture, Second Coming or Both?

[Broken2007]

Oh... I absolutely LOVED this! Rolling I will be reading your blogs. I have feasted. I now also know what is being required of me . This was a confirmation for me. I also love looking at each persons view of the scriptures as well thats why we must allow ourselves to be lead of the spirit. My only thing is instead of there being arguments about the events,  as "ONE" we should all agree on whats most important here, PREACHING CHRIST! Lets not look for excuses to procrastinate here (my perception) as far as im concerned Rolling you are on your job! The average person only lives about 75-80 years anyways and if you get longer your beyond blessed so there's no gaurantee anyone on here is going to be here for any of it anyways. I say start saving for your retirement now. LOL

Again Thanks

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

WHAT is over? It is the 70th week that is over. The battle of ARmageddon is still future to chapter 16.

Revelation 14, 16 and 18 is the Same event.

1. Rev. 14 is called the Harvest (Babylon Falls).
2. Rev. 16 is the Seven Vials which ends with Armageddon and Babylon Falls in verse 19.
3. Rev. 18 is of course Babylon Falling over a longer period of time. Seals/Trumpets and Vials.

Rev. 16 is Armageddon, they gather together , the verse before the Seventh Vial is poured out says this: Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

So Rev. 16 ends it. Rev. 19 is Rev. 16 as told from the Church who is coming back with Jesus' perspective. 

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Christ's coming is still future also. Jesus told me to find the entire 70th week "clearly marked" and told me how to find it. The same marker used for the exact midpoint would be used for the beginning and ending. (Yes, I heard His voice and His words. They sounded audible, but He was talking to me, so it was probably only to my spirit.)

I found that the exact midpoint was marked by a 7: the 7th trumpet. I rushed to the 7th vial and saw "it is done." I rushed to the 7th seal and saw the 30 minutes of silence. I knew then that I had found the entire 70th week "clearly marked."

You are free to disagree: many people do. But it is truth.

I just pointed out Armageddon is in Rev. 16, the fatal flaw many people make is not understanding the Revelation TIMELINE, which is why I did the Revelation, IN SEQUENCE Thread, and I think people looked past the facts I presented and just continued arguing their same ole talking points. 

Rev. 4, 5, 7, and 19 are the Church in Heaven. Rev. 6,8,9,11,15 and 16 are the Judgment seals/trumpets/vials. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 are all happening over a longer period of time starting in Rev. chapter 6. The Midway point is CLEAR....The Anti-Christ rules 42 Months, he comes forth in Seal number 1, thus that is the midway point. We over complicate it.

 

I think its a waste of time......

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Revelation 14, 16 and 18 is the Same event.

1. Rev. 14 is called the Harvest (Babylon Falls).
2. Rev. 16 is the Seven Vials which ends with Armageddon and Babylon Falls in verse 19.
3. Rev. 18 is of course Babylon Falling over a longer period of time. Seals/Trumpets and Vials.

Rev. 16 is Armageddon, they gather together , the verse before the Seventh Vial is poured out says this: Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

So Rev. 16 ends it. Rev. 19 is Rev. 16 as told from the Church who is coming back with Jesus' perspective. 

I just pointed out Armageddon is in Rev. 16, the fatal flaw many people make is not understanding the Revelation TIMELINE, which is why I did the Revelation, IN SEQUENCE Thread, and I think people looked past the facts I presented and just continued arguing their same ole talking points. 

Rev. 4, 5, 7, and 19 are the Church in Heaven. Rev. 6,8,9,11,15 and 16 are the Judgment seals/trumpets/vials. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 are all happening over a longer period of time starting in Rev. chapter 6. The Midway point is CLEAR....The Anti-Christ rules 42 Months, he comes forth in Seal number 1, thus that is the midway point. We over complicate it.

 

I think its a waste of time......

I think its a waste of time......

In this I can agree 100%! I think your theories are so far out in left field, you have left the ball park. How anyone can even imagine that the Marriage supper is for the birds is beyond me. I won't trust anything else you write.  Sorry. I believe, from what you wrote once, that you are a Spirit Filled believer. Now I wonder.

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, wingnut- said:

ou can talk in circles around this all day long if you so desire, but your entire argument is flawed.  If it was the catching away, Paul would have used the word harpazo

Paul may have had a very good reason to write this as he did. I don't think you should attempt to put words in the Holy Spirit's mouth! In fact, when we take the entire passage, this word can mean nothing else.  In this passage, it is "taken out of the way," which is another good way of saying snatched. It spite of all your arguments, it FITS.

15 hours ago, wingnut- said:

The man of sin is revealed after the falling away as the verse states,

Thank you! Finally you answered. However, The man of sin cannot be revealed unless or until verses 6-8 come to pass. That is, the one restraining MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.

Therefore, whatever Apostasia was or is suppose to mean, it MUST MEAN something "taken out of the way." The Harpazo or the snatching away fits that FAR BETTER than a falling away. Paul's theme was the catching away, not a falling away, so if fits his theme far better.

Therefore, the earlier translations I think are correct: it is a departing.  You can ask Paul later why he chose to use this word. Perhaps he wanted to make sure, if a Roman read his letter, he would not understand it. Only those whom he had previously taught would understand.

Case in point: verse 6  "  And now ye know what withholdeth (or who it is that is restraining)

HOW Paul? HOW can we know? I think, if Paul could answer, he would tells us, "just back up verse by verse and find something "taken out of the way."

There is yet another problem if the real meaning is a falling away. Paul's argument is to show anyone how they can know for sure that they are IN the DAY - that the Day of the Lord has already started and they are IN IT. First, they must see a very SIGNIFICANT departing. If it is a falling away of some kind (Paul did not say from what) how would anyone know if ENOUGH PEOPLE had fallen away to qualify as a signifcant falling away? On the other hand, if it was the departing of the church, a part of a whole spacially removed to another place, everyone would know almost instantly. The departing of the church fits the context better.

There has always been a falling away, but at the same time, MORE have come. It just does not fit as something that is restraining the man of sin. If we look at graphs of the growth of Christianity since 32 AD, it has been on a steady climb.  Todate, perhaps 30% call themselves Christian. Only God knows how many of these are truly born again. Therefore, I am convinced that a SIGNIFICANT "falling away" is not what the Author intended.

[fixerupper]

Quote

 

Revelation 14, 16 and 18 is the Same event.

Rev. 14 is called the Harvest (Babylon Falls).

Rev. 16 is the Seven Vials which ends with Armageddon and Babylon Falls in verse 19.

Rev. 18 is of course Babylon Falling over a longer period of time. Seals/Trumpets and Vials.

 

So what happened?  Why did God find it necessary to repeat the same event three different times, three different ways?

[fixerupper]

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There has always been a falling away, but at the same time, MORE have come.

That really isn't true.  It's pretty clear from the text that this "falling away" is AN END-TIME EVENT." It's talking about the parousia, the gathering, and the day of Christ. Those are end-time events and so is the apostasy. 

Quote

It just does not fit as something that is restraining the man of sin.

The apostasy is what's restraining the man of sin.  It's what he's waiting for!

Quote

If we look at graphs of the growth of Christianity since 32 AD, it has been on a steady climb. 

Look again.  Christianity is today on the decline especially in the U.S. and Europe.  Churches are closing more than you think.

Quote

Todate, perhaps 30% call themselves Christian. Only God knows how many of these are truly born again. Therefore, I am convinced that a SIGNIFICANT "falling away" is not what the Author intended.

The falling away has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

Edited June 29, 2017 by fixerupper

[simplejeff]

18 minutes ago, fixerupper said:

Those are end-time events and so is the apostasy. 

Cool.

Who said in Scripture,  in 1st John I think, by revelation from YHWH, His Word Breathed,   "we are in the last hour " ?

[wingnut-]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Paul may have had a very good reason to write this as he did. I don't think you should attempt to put words in the Holy Spirit's mouth!

 

Unbelievable, accuse me of what you are doing.  

 

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore, whatever Apostasia was or is suppose to mean, it MUST MEAN something "taken out of the way." The Harpazo or the snatching away fits that FAR BETTER than a falling away.

 

What part of this don't you grasp, TWO DIFFERENT WORDS WITH TWO DIFFERENT MEANINGS.  It is not harpazo, apostia means exactly what those who understand the language said it did, and you by your own admission are not one of those individuals.  You want it to say harpazo, but it does not, so you are in denial to try and make it fit.  This entire discussion is unreal, this is why I can't have a serious discussion with you.

 

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You can ask Paul later why he chose to use this word. Perhaps he wanted to make sure, if a Roman read his letter, he would not understand it. Only those whom he had previously taught would understand.

 

You must be confused as to whom is the actual author of scripture, that would be the Holy Spirit.  God is not confused about what word He wanted to be used there, you are just in denial about the word used not being the one you want it to be.

 

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

There is yet another problem if the real meaning is a falling away.

 

The problem is that while you admit to not knowing Greek, you still choose to think you know it better than those who do know Greek.  I'm not sure what to even call that line of reasoning.  I guess since you cannot address the seed sown on the rocky soil being contradictory to everything you have to say on the matter you will just ignore it, as though the scripture I posted were invisible to you.

You're more interested in pretending you are more qualified than people who actually know Greek in regards to the meaning of the words, and worse yet, the foundation of your argument is predicated on calling the reliability of scripture into question to support your theory.  Very sad, so I'm just going to leave it at that and wish you well.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

So what happened?  Why did God find it necessary to repeat the same event three different times, three different ways?

Rev. 14 is the Harvest, go read it. You can't harvest until you come back. Jesus comes back in Rev. 16 on the Mt of Olives. 

Rev. 16 is about the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath. 

Rev. 18 is a longer chapter has per the happenings, but 16 ends it all. This is a Vision about a Longer Event than Rev. 14 or 16. This is about Babylon being Destroyed by the Plagues of God. The Seals, the Trumpets and the Seven Vials. 

Why did God give us Genesis one and two? One was Creation with MAN and one was about Man being Created. One Event took 13.7 Billion years. The Second event happened in a moment of time. 

All three of the Chapters are about Babylon falling. Until you understand Revelation is not in Sequence, it will be hard to see.

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

You telling me the church is restraining the antichrist?

It is sure not a falling away or the opposite of a falling away that is restraining. I believe it is the Holy Spirit working through the Believers. When suddenly all the believers are caught up, He will have no one to work through - at least for a while.