How do the believers in Christ differ from Israel?

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Revelation Man.

LOL! I'm just getting started! Your "meaning of hell is hell?" Do you KNOW, then, that Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18, Luke 10:15, Luke 16:23, Acts 2:27, Acts 2:31, 1 Corinthians 15:55, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 6:8, Revelation 20:13, and Revelation 20:14 are NOT talking about "hell" as the "Lake of Fire and Sulfur," even thought they use the word "hell?" These are instances where the Greek word is "haidees" ("hades") is found, translated as "hell."

Okay, now for the other side of the coin:

Do you truly know what "heaven" means? Again, there are a number of Greek words that were translated as "heaven," "heavens," and "heavenly." There are also another word in Hebrew and a PHRASE in Hebrew. You should know what these differences are and when and where each word is used. You also need to know HOW a word is used in its context.

Let's start with the Hebrew: The Hebrew word is "shaamaayim." In Hebrew, "-aayim" and "-iym" are both masculine plural endings; however, "-aayim" is a DUAL word, that it to say, it describes things that come in pairs, particularly body parts, like eyes, ears, hands, feet, etc. This word, "shaamaayim," is also a dual word.

I've also tried to tell people that Jewish literature often begins with a synopsis of what is to follow; that is, it begins with a summary of the details to follow, like in an outline. That often doesn't go over very well, because they still THINK like a Westerner! However, Hebrew is an ORIENTAL language. That's why the area from which it originated is called the "Middle EAST!"

To use Western Hemisphere logic to say the same thing, think of it this way: The things God named in the Creation Account were names that God gave to the things He had JUST CREATED!

Therefore, by STARTING with the verses Genesis 1:8 and Genesis 1:10, we see WHAT He created and then the NAME He assigned to it:

Genesis 1:6-8
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven (shaamaayim). And the evening and the morning were the second day.
KJV

The word "Heaven" in verse 8 is the Hebrew word "shaamaayim." Later, we are given a limiting factor of this word:

Genesis 1:20-23
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven (again, "shaamaayim").
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
KJV

Therefore, this word "heaven" is talking about the air, the atmosphere where the birds can fly. That's why the NIV translates these verses like this:

Genesis 1:6-8
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning — the second day. 
NIV

Genesis 1:20-23
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning — the fifth day. 
NIV

Now, briefly consider the word "earth" which is the Hebrew word "erets," which starts with the Hebrew letter alef.

Genesis 1:9-10
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth (Hebrew: erets); and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
KJV

Genesis 1:9-10
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," (Hebrew: erets) and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. 
NIV

This was when God created the dry ground and this was when God named it "erets."

Now, in Hebrew, the definite article is a prefix that is attached to a word, "h-." The vowel sounds that follow this prefix depend on the word it is modifying. For "shaamaayim," the attachment of the definite article prefix is "ha-." Therefore with the definite article, the word becomes "hashaamaayim."

For "erets," the definite article prefix changes the sound of the next vowel as well. Thus, the word with the definite article becomes "haa'aarets," which now displays the apostrophe (') for the alef and the vowel sound is "aa" which sounds like an "aw," as in "saw."

These words, hashaamaayim" and "haa'aarets," are found in Genesis 1:1:

Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the Heaven (hashaamaayim) and the earth (haa'aarets).
KJV

Now, you can see why this is a summary of verses 8 and 10 below. 

More to come....

 

I know exactly which is being discussed without a copy & paste history lesson. That's the point.

[wingnut-]

On 7/10/2017 at 11:53 PM, Marilyn C said:

The `Tree of Life,` is a symbolic picture of the Lord giving of His life to others.

 

Where in scripture is Jesus ever equated or compared to the tree of life to support this claim?

 

On 7/11/2017 at 0:00 AM, Marilyn C said:

If we look at Hebrews 11, we see that God is talking about the OT saints who looked for the city, the New Jerusalem. It is for them and not for us as we will be in the third heaven with Christ.

 

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

 

Revelation 22: 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

Here are two passages from Revelation that directly contradict your claim.  Who are those who wash their robes?  The great multitude is one group alone.  Verse 19 warns against taking away from the words of the book, or the individual loses their share in the holy city.  So if we take your position, then any Gentile can change whatever they want because these aren't things for them anyway.

 

On 7/11/2017 at 0:00 AM, Marilyn C said:

Those who are invited to the city are the nations of the earth.

 

Following the GWTJ there are simply believers and non-believers, non-believers will go to the lake of fire, believers will have access to the city.  Nothing unclean can enter the city, so your rendering again contradicts what is written.  You can't have Jews and Gentiles both on the earth while trying to separate them as you are, scripture is clear on the fact that there is ONE body.

 

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

 

Your entire theory is contradictory to scripture, a teaching of men that is flawed at its very foundation.  The above passage cannot be spiritualized away, or dismissed by claiming symbolism.  Pay close attention to verses 21 and 22, which verify precisely what is said in Revelation that you are attempting to explain away.  The Gentiles are made one with the Jew through Jesus Christ, joined together to grow into a holy temple, built together into a dwelling place for God.  I for one will take scripture for what it says and know that the New Jerusalem is my inheritance.

God bless

 

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I know exactly which is being discussed without a copy & paste history lesson. That's the point.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Well, you SAY you know, but YOU'RE the one who said, "All Jews will not go to Heaven," implying that some will! But, the truth is that NO ONE "goes to heaven!" What people call "Heaven," the New Jerusalem, comes here to this earth (after the Millennium, the Fire, and the Re-Creation). As Revelation 21:1-3 says,

Revelation 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle (Greek: skeenee = "tent") of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV

That's what all this "copy & paste history lesson" is all about! I fear you've got a wrong premise upon which you build your eschatology.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Where in scripture is Jesus ever equated or compared to the tree of life to support this claim?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

Revelation 22: 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Here are two passages from Revelation that directly contradict your claim.  Who are those who wash their robes?  The great multitude is one group alone.  Verse 19 warns against taking away from the words of the book, or the individual loses their share in the holy city.  So if we take your position, then any Gentile can change whatever they want because these aren't things for them anyway.

Following the GWTJ there are simply believers and non-believers, non-believers will go to the lake of fire, believers will have access to the city.  Nothing unclean can enter the city, so your rendering again contradicts what is written.  You can't have Jews and Gentiles both on the earth while trying to separate them as you are, scripture is clear on the fact that there is ONE body.

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

 

Your entire theory is contradictory to scripture, a teaching of men that is flawed at its very foundation.  The above passage cannot be spiritualized away, or dismissed by claiming symbolism.  Pay close attention to verses 21 and 22, which verify precisely what is said in Revelation that you are attempting to explain away.  The Gentiles are made one with the Jew through Jesus Christ, joined together to grow into a holy temple, built together into a dwelling place for God.  I for one will take scripture for what it says and know that the New Jerusalem is my inheritance.

God bless

 

Hi wingnut,

Now is the Lord a `lion, a lamb, a door, (to the sheep fold) a vine, a temple, a corner stone, etc etc. God uses all of nature and some man made structures to reveal Christ to us.

Then you ask - Who are those who wash their robes? God`s word tells us -

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light (city), and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

So we read of the nations and their kings who are on the earth but are not in the New Jerusalem, however they can go into the city.  We are not `nations` any more but one new man with the Jews who come into the Body. Note the great multitude are also called the nations but we are not.

We are called the Body of Christ, (Jews & Gentiles), and we have been promised that we will be kingpriests and rule with Christ on His throne in heaven. That is what Ephesians is saying - one new man, (Jews and Gentiles together, therefore not nations (Gentiles and not Israel). You rightly said -

The Gentiles are made one with the Jew through Jesus Christ. 

Thus the `nations` Gentiles are not the Body of Christ which is Jews and Gentile nations.

 You also said, you - know that the New Jerusalem is my inheritance. So....are you in the nations on the earth that are allowed to visit the city or are you in the city?

 

regards, Marilyn.

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Well, you SAY you know, but YOU'RE the one who said, "All Jews will not go to Heaven," implying that some will! But, the truth is that NO ONE "goes to heaven!" What people call "Heaven," the New Jerusalem, comes here to this earth (after the Millennium, the Fire, and the Re-Creation). As Revelation 21:1-3 says,

 

Incorrect BROTHER, the Church is Raptured to Heaven for Seven Years then comes back with Jesus. We do not stay on earth, only Israel and those Beheaded stay on earth with Christ to reign. New Jerusalem is Heaven, the Old Earth will pass away. Why do you think New Jerusalem is called The Bride? Because the Bride is in New Jerusalem when it comes down, but the Old Earth will be no more.

God Bless.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Revelation Man.

You also have another problem I was going to address next: You said, several times, "It seems you are confused as to what Paul is speaking about here, he is speaking about the ELDER (Israel) serving the YOUNGER (Gentile/Church) because God elected them to serve Him, just like he elected Issac instead of Esau!!" But, this is ENTIRELY BOGUS!

Romans 10:12-15
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. ...

Quote

Joel 2:27-3:2
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD (Hebrew: YHWH) your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with (Hebrew: vanishpaTtiy = "and-I-will-judge") them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
KJV

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
KJV

Quote

Isaiah 52:4-10
4 For thus saith the LORD God, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God (God's RESCUE of the children of Israel).
KJV

So, do YOU see what's really at stake and what's going on here in Romans 10? It's not about the "elder serving the younger," when we are on the SAME FOOTING in the Messiah! It's about God's RESCUE of Israel! It's we who are GENTILES (NON-children-of-Israel) who are the tag-alongs! It's we who are GENTILES who are grafted into the Olive Tree as UNNATURAL, WILD oleander branches!

So, the PROPER response is to LISTEN to Paul's words:

Romans 11:16-24
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES. (the individual children of Israel!) But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."
20 Well; BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF (not YOU) they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but FEAR:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he (God) also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
KJV

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Incorrect BROTHER, the Church is Raptured to Heaven for Seven Years then comes back with Jesus. We do not stay on earth, only Israel and those Beheaded stay on earth with Christ to reign. New Jerusalem is Heaven, the Old Earth will pass away. Why do you think New Jerusalem is called The Bride? Because the Bride is in New Jerusalem when it comes down, but the Old Earth will be no more.

God Bless.

Shabbat shalom, BROTHER.

Book, chapter, and verse! There is NO PLACE in Scripture where this PHILOSOPHY of "Raptured to Heaven for Seven Years" is taught!

Why do I think the New Jerusalem is called "the bride?" Because, my BROTHER, it's a SIMILE and a METAPHOR in Revelation 21! It has NOTHING DIRECTLY to do with this trumped-up entity called "the Church!" Look carefully at the following verses:

Revelation 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

THAT'S a SIMILE, "a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave AS a lion, crazy LIKE a fox)."

Revelation 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee 'the bride,' the Lamb's 'wife.'"
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ...
KJV

THAT'S a METAPHOR, "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable." 

And, it is such belief systems as you suggest that LEAD people to believe that the "New Jerusalem is Heaven," but it's just not true.

Regarding "the Old Earth will pass away" and "the Old Earth will be no more," apparently you've never investigated this claim or have never listened to Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-13:

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God (Creation) the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Quote

 

Genesis 1:6-10
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven (Hebrew: shaamaayim = "(2) skies"). And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth (Hebrew: erets = "land"); and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
KJV

(Verse 10 shows that the earth was "standing out of the water." Verse 7 shows that the earth was "standing in the water" as it was under the waters above the expanse called "skies.")

 

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water (the FLOOD), perished: (Gen. 7-9.)
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (the Great White Throne Judgment, Rev. 20:10-15).
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens (Greek: hoi ouranoi = "the skies") shall pass away (Greek: pareleusontai = "shall-come-near/shall-come-aside/shall-go-by") with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (the FIRE to come, Rev. 20:7-9)
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (Rev. 21:1-2).
KJV

Now, unless you're willing to say that we moved to a whole other PLANET when the original creation was destroyed by water in Noach's FLOOD, the FIRE will be the SAME WAY! God will send the FIRE and it will purge the SURFACE of the earth, not destroy the entire planet! It will be focused on destroying "men's WORKS!" "Pass away" LITERALLY means "to PASS - to approach, be along side, and go by, going away!"

Revelation 20:11
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away (Greek: efugen hee gee kai ho ouranos = "ran-away the earth and the sky"); and there was found no place for them (Greek: kai topos ouch heurethee autois = "and a-place not was-found for-them").
KJV

As in a nuclear explosion, the sky - the air - and the earth - the ground - rushed by but wound up having no place to go! They ran out of surface on the planet!

Revelation 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Greek: ho gar prootos ouranos kai hee prootee gee apeelthan = "the for first sky and the first earth had-gone-off/had-gone-aside"); and there was no more sea.
KJV

Again, it was NOT the destruction of the planet nor of its atmophere! It was the denuding of the planet's SURFACE!

LISTEN TO PETER! By the way, this shows the "third heaven" quite well and BETTER than Scofield's notes in the Scofield Study Bible of the KJV of the Bible (p. 1238)!

PETER said,

1st heavens = the skies before the FLOOD ("the heavens were of old")
2nd heavens = the skies after the FLOOD and before the FIRE ("the heavens, ... which are now")
3rd heavens = the skies after the FIRE ("new heavens")

 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, BROTHER.

Book, chapter, and verse! There is NO PLACE in Scripture where this PHILOSOPHY of "Raptured to Heaven for Seven Years" is taught!

Why do I think the New Jerusalem is called "the bride?" Because, my BROTHER, it's a SIMILE and a METAPHOR in Revelation 21! It has NOTHING DIRECTLY to do with this trumped-up entity called "the Church!" Look carefully at the following verses:

Yo need to read more then. Its clear you are not up to speed. I don't got time right now to be a teacher. In a bit of a hurry.

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Now is the Lord a `lion, a lamb, a door, (to the sheep fold) a vine, a temple, a corner stone, etc etc. God uses all of nature and some man made structures to reveal Christ to us.

 

Hello Marilyn,

All of those examples are given to us in scripture, what is not ever found in scripture is any relation between the tree of life and Jesus.  The tree of life is mentioned only 11 times in scripture, 3 times in Genesis, 4 times in Proverbs, and 4 times in Revelation.  Not one of those times can it be equated to Jesus, in fact, the exact opposite from this occasion.

 

Genesis 3:24  He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

Following the fall of man, man is kept from the tree of life by cherubim and a flaming sword.  This is irreconcilable to Jesus, who is standing with His arms wide open inviting man to come to Him.

 

Matthew 11:28  Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

The passage in Genesis cannot be reconciled to this fact, man is not driven and kept away from Jesus, but they are kept away from the tree of life until the age to come.  Your position on this is simply not compatible to who Jesus is and His purpose to offer salvation.  It was the very sin that caused the tree of life to be hidden away which resulted in mankind's necessity for a Savior.  They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no talking around this point, either Jesus is accessible or He is inaccessible.  So which is it to you?

God bless

[Marilyn C]

7 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hello Marilyn,

All of those examples are given to us in scripture, what is not ever found in scripture is any relation between the tree of life and Jesus.  The tree of life is mentioned only 11 times in scripture, 3 times in Genesis, 4 times in Proverbs, and 4 times in Revelation.  Not one of those times can it be equated to Jesus, in fact, the exact opposite from this occasion.

 

Genesis 3:24  He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

Following the fall of man, man is kept from the tree of life by cherubim and a flaming sword.  This is irreconcilable to Jesus, who is standing with His arms wide open inviting man to come to Him.

 

Matthew 11:28  Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

The passage in Genesis cannot be reconciled to this fact, man is not driven and kept away from Jesus, but they are kept away from the tree of life until the age to come.  Your position on this is simply not compatible to who Jesus is and His purpose to offer salvation.  It was the very sin that caused the tree of life to be hidden away which resulted in mankind's necessity for a Savior.  They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no talking around this point, either Jesus is accessible or He is inaccessible.  So which is it to you?

God bless

Hi wingnut,

Is Jesus a lion, a lamb, a door, a vine, an olive tree, a temple, etc. The tree of life, is a symbol, as are those others, to reveal some aspect of Christ. Now tell me, when Adam & Eve were sent from the garden, did they then have access to God as before? No, their sin made a barrier. No trees have life, only the Son, and He is a life-giving spirit.

`...The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45) 

The `tree of life,` is a symbol to represent the life of Christ that all will have access to, in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Marilyn.