What is meant by...?

[enoob57]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:35 PM, Soy Richard said:

Hi. What does Jesus want us to understand when he said, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18,8

Real 'LOVE' the essence of God is only found in His Presence ... that 'PRESENCE' if we are to be in it must come from His Word/Spirit forming a faith that cannot be defiled as it has so been designed by Our God to be so. It is narrow and hard in that all that we began in must be resolved to ending and all that The Word promises must be placed in that void forming a hope not yet realized by what we are presently in (our sensual perception)... once one comes to a place where all that 'IS' to be-> sets oneself to a forward journey with eyes on that prize without looking back in yearning for that which was enters into faith that sanctifies for a new Life created in Christ Jesus... for this reality is structured in God's Word as such

2 Peter 3:11 (KJV)

[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

this is put before us by God so that we may know that to cling to that which passes away being eternal children can only be impossible...
Entering into the understanding of His Holiness we find this about The Heart of our Lord

Jude 23 (KJV)

[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

even though in reasoning the garment (the created essence) had no responsibility toward the begin of sin within it... the holiness of God even in it's presence a reminder of that which has no substance of any kind or form from Him (the sin)... has so designed a transport -faith- a vehicle in that which transports that which is born from above to a place not realized by first creation elements

1 Corinthians 7:31 (KJV)

[31] And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

1 Corinthians 2:9 (KJV)

[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

nothing travels this road of first essence to The New Essence except but by His Word/Spirit forming the faith that will endure the cessation of all that we have began in into The Newness of eternity with God in His fullness of Being...
The uniqueness of God's Word is when ones heart, mind and will is filled with The Word as so written by s/Spirit causing that being to be born form above is ready for the 'WILL' 'PURPOSE' of God both now and forever as His Own in a unity Jesus prayed for >for us< in Him.... John 17

Love, Steven

 

[BK1110]

On 7/7/2017 at 6:23 AM, Soy Richard said:

Thanks BK1110

I'm more interested in the error of doctrine than secularism. Returning to the original question: will he find (the) faith on the earth? you make a very valid point that people will claim to be his followers on his appearance but his response is to reject them. Why? Because they did not worship the Father in spirit and truth (John 4). We can add the wedding guest episode - Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? (Mat.22)

So, the household of faith in spirit and truth. Where is it right now and where will Jesus find it when he returns? That could be before this day has ended!

It sounds like you're asking if He'll find any true Christians on the Earth when he returns. I would say yes, depending on what the true meaning of the rapture and all that is; pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, etc. If we are raptured pre-tribulation, then logically I suppose there would be no true believers left, but then why ask if He'll find the faith on the Earth?

[Soy Richard]

Thanks BK1110. Rapture! What do you suppose is the true meaning of the rapture?

[OneLight]

57 minutes ago, Soy Richard said:

Thanks BK1110. Rapture! What do you suppose is the true meaning of the rapture?

To be caught up with Christ in the clouds.  1 Thessalonians 4:17  "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

There are more technical answers, but this is the basics.

[FresnoJoe]

3 hours ago, Soy Richard said:

Thanks BK1110. Rapture! What do you suppose is the true meaning of the rapture?

~

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

To be caught up with Christ in the clouds.  1 Thessalonians 4:17  "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

There are more technical answers, but this is the basics.

Jerusalem

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. Hosea 5:15

Bound

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

[Soy Richard]

Thanks BK1110. Isn't there a pretty strong case to show that the idea of Jesus capturing his followers and sweeping them off into the air somewhere is just not the truth? If you examine where this concept started and how, then compare scripture with scripture, the idea of rapture is inconsistent. So 1 Thess 4,17 needs a different, more accurate, exposition.

[Karen Reck]

Just saw this online when searching for the meaning " “When the Son of man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” 

The circumstances in which Jesus made this statement were not at a time when He was talking about His return to earth at the end of this age. But it’s clear that He is referring to that time.

He asks this question of whether or not there’ll even be faith left on the earth at His return.

If He is omnipotent and omniscient, why would He ask a question like that? It’s almost like the feeling is that it’s going to get so bad on earth before His return that He asks this question of whether or not there’ll even be faith left on the earth at His return.

What is the context of all this? At the beginning of Luke 18, “He spoke a parable to them that men ought always to pray and not to faint.” He went on to tell about the woman who kept coming to a judge in her city to get justice for a wrong done to her. Jesus said the judge was unjust and didn’t fear God or man. But finally he just wanted the woman to stop bugging him about the matter so he tended to it. Then Jesus asked His listeners, “Won’t God answer His own elect who cry to Him daily?”

It’s all about prayer and having the faith that God will answer. If that unjust judge took action just because that woman kept after him, won’t the God of heaven hear and answer the prayers of His people? But then Jesus asked, “When the Son of man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Here are a few other verses from the Bible that bring light on that time and seem to indicate the dire straits the world will be in then.

[BK1110]

15 hours ago, Soy Richard said:

Thanks BK1110. Isn't there a pretty strong case to show that the idea of Jesus capturing his followers and sweeping them off into the air somewhere is just not the truth? If you examine where this concept started and how, then compare scripture with scripture, the idea of rapture is inconsistent. So 1 Thess 4,17 needs a different, more accurate, exposition.

Is there? I'm unfamiliar with it if there is. Can you explain more?

[kwikphilly]

Quote

 Isn't there a pretty strong case to show that the idea of Jesus capturing his followers and sweeping them off into the air somewhere is just not the truth?

Is it safe to say this is a type-o?

 1 Thessalonians 4:17  "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."     Believers are "caught up"....gathered,taken up

  So What do you think 1 Thess 4:17 means?

Quote

Matthew 24:30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 

Luke 17:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 

35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” 

37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

Mark 13:24 “But in those days, following that distress, “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 

25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 

26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 

27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 

 

 

 

[Soy Richard]

Thank you for your involvement Karen. If you are commenting on the context of the chapter leading up to the words spoken by Jesus that we are considering then, may I suggest, we involve all the words in verse 8 too?

⁸ I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

we might, I think, reasonably consider the first part of this verse to largely cover off the aspect of petitions of prayer from the faithful. that is, they are heard, God is not impervious to pray from the righteous but He acts in His own time and manner, not ours. "

To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste." Speedily from Jesus also renders as suddenly.

But even despite this approach we have the disconnect in Jesus' teaching because he uses the word, 'nevertheless.' In so doing, he separates concepts. He's saying, in effect, regardless of the prayer, will he find faith? Some translations have this 'the faith' which is telling. There is, undoubtedly, considerable faith around and will be around when Jesus appears. The faith as taught by the apostles and the prophets? Well, therein is our original question.