Pharaseeism, or Sadduceism...what is the greater threat?

[brakelite]

C S Lewis in his book Screwtape Letters, described the demon's modus operandi with the following;

“’running about with fire extinguishers whenever there is a flood. Get people to crowd to the side of the boat that is already nearly under. When people are lukewarm and apathetic, get them stirred up about the dangers of enthusiasm and emotion. If they are lazy, talk to them about the hypocrisy of the working community. If they are cruel, warn them against the evils of sentimentality..." In other words, let them hear loudly and repeatedly the warnings they don’t need. 

I have been participating in Christian forums for nearly decades, and have found a common theme running through all forums during that time. By far the most popular debates are the ones touching on themes of works based salvation, as opposed to salvation by grace alone, and inherent in these discussions are the multitudinous warnings against 'legalism'. However, when I look around me at todays churches I see evidence, lots of evidence, that the biggest threat to an individuals salvation is not one of seeking to obey and live up to a certain moral standard, but rather the opposite...believing ones salvation is secure despite rampant worldliness, materialism and selfish pleasure seeking.

[Neighbor]

My salvation IS secure. I suggest there is no salvation issue involved in my enjoyment of life granted me by my creator.  

The Holy Spirit leads me to the places of corporate worship that God wills for me to be part of, and He leads me in my sanctification as He does. In each stay at a corporate body of Christ Jesus He has taught me evermore of Himself.

So I thank God  for all the churches of the saints in Christ, those I perceived as good and those I perceived as being not so good, for each has served His good purposes in my life.

Praise God.

Maranatha

Edited August 14, 2017 by Neighbor

[brakelite]

Yes...antinomianism is by far the easist way. Aside from the fact that anyone trusting in his obedience is doomed to failure, to live ones life striving to obey and do good works, or living up to a moral standard that is above that of your neighbors and friends, is a road paved with hard work, courage, conviction, and at times ridicule. For that reason not many choose that path: in fact, history will reveal that the great majority throughout Christendom chose the easier option...

[Sower]

32 minutes ago, Yowm said:

They say legalism and antinomianism are two sides of the same coin both without the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. It does seem these days we are on the antinomian side of the coin.

No mater which side of the coin is used, it's counterfeit. We worship God in spirit and truth. A legalist worships through his proud stand on his keeping of the law. The  antinomianism  (had to look that one up) I think, see's the crucifixion as a cheap ticket to liberty "the power or scope to act as one pleases" 

The more a believer  study's the person, Christ Jesus, the provider of "liberty in Christ" the more they become aware of their sin, from which they have been saved from. As the spirit opens my eyes, I'm overcome with an understanding of just how much mercy flows from my Lord. As I think most any believer in the word would understand. My obedience is the desire to please my savior, not impress Him or anybody else. I don't think anyone claiming salvation in Christ, can continue in the flesh. Yes, it is a work in progress.   If they are saved, God will deal with them, as his child.

Rom 6:17  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20  For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.  (Not after knowing/believing)

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

20 hours ago, brakelite said:

C S Lewis in his book Screwtape Letters, described the demon's modus operandi with the following;

“’running about with fire extinguishers whenever there is a flood. Get people to crowd to the side of the boat that is already nearly under. When people are lukewarm and apathetic, get them stirred up about the dangers of enthusiasm and emotion. If they are lazy, talk to them about the hypocrisy of the working community. If they are cruel, warn them against the evils of sentimentality..." In other words, let them hear loudly and repeatedly the warnings they don’t need. 

I have been participating in Christian forums for nearly decades, and have found a common theme running through all forums during that time. By far the most popular debates are the ones touching on themes of works based salvation, as opposed to salvation by grace alone, and inherent in these discussions are the multitudinous warnings against 'legalism'. However, when I look around me at todays churches I see evidence, lots of evidence, that the biggest threat to an individuals salvation is not one of seeking to obey and live up to a certain moral standard, but rather the opposite...believing ones salvation is secure despite rampant worldliness, materialism and selfish pleasure seeking.

Indeed this has truly destroyed the churches.  so many men brought in the term legalism and used it to support a belief system that destroyed the church.

I have preached saved by grace alone for years............yet the grace I preach they call legalism, cause it corrects and wont let people stay comfortable in sin.

Any kind of correction and you get termed legalist.  YET.........I use JESUS own words to correct.   How on earth Is that being legalistic...................

[brakelite]

6 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Indeed this has truly destroyed the churches.  so many men brought in the term legalism and used it to support a belief system that destroyed the church.

I have preached saved by grace alone for years............yet the grace I preach they call legalism, cause it corrects and wont let people stay comfortable in sin.

Any kind of correction and you get termed legalist.  YET.........I use JESUS own words to correct.   How on earth Is that being legalistic...................

Yes, those that "sigh and cry concerning the abominations done in Israel" are labelled extremists, and Pharisaical. Or in the language of the current post modernist, 'intolerant'. 

[enoob57]

If Christ so lived in His Own Body .... now that we have given Him our body: how shall He live in us>?< There is no confusion in righteousness!
AND do you think He knows whether or not He lives in us 

Galatians 6:7 (NKJV)

[7] Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. [8] For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. [9] And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. [10] Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

 

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

On 8/10/2017 at 4:26 AM, brakelite said:

Pharaseeism, or Sadduceism...what is the greater threat?

Having no faith in Jesus Christ.

 

To all:

It is really hard to please people, and I believe we should not try to please any. But I believe we were called to humble ourselves and believe and follow Christ, and please Him, and honor Him with our new life.

I know I will make mistakes, I know I will sin, but I will not have the desire to rebel against Him who saved me.

 

1.When we try to live according to His Word, there are people who say: "He believes his works or obedience are going to save him".

I believe Christians do not practice good works and obedience to be saved. They do it because of their faith in Jesus Christ, they want to be like Him.

 

2.When we try to admonish our brothers: "You are being legalistic, or judgemental".

I do not believe it is wrong to admonish people.

But I feel it is really easy to get this done improperly, and people start labeling you as legalistic. But I believe that we can label others mistakenly as well.

 

3.And we act according to the Spirit, there are people who say: "You are a fool".

This is usually said or thought by those who are in the world and cannot understand why you do not seek to live according to the flesh.

Then they call you a fool for not acting according to the flesh.

 

"Let all that you do be done with love." - 1 Corinthians 16:14

 

OK, we sometimes make mistakes when we try to do the right thing. It is included in the process of learning.

I really hope your heart is inclined to do the good things our Lord has commanded us. He knows our hearts.

"Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” - John 14:23

 

If I get something incorrectly while writing this post, please be merciful to me. Do not send me straight to hell.

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." - Matthew 9:13

 

Glory to the Lord Jesus!

[brakelite]

Whatever we do in life we do as a natural response and reflection of who we are. We sinned in our unconverted carnal lives because it was natural for us to do so. A truly born again new creature in Christ may as a babe in Christ continue to sin, but it is unatural for him because he is a new creature. As he grows in faith, the sin will decrease and the works shall increase, all as a natural outflow of what is now a branch grafter ontoa good olive tree and producing good fruit.

Unfortunately, what I see in mainstream and evangelical Christianity is rampant materialism and worldliness. This tells me that most 'Christians' today are not new creatures but still carnal branches bearing the natural fruit of a  wild tree destined for destruction.

If I said these words inmost forums I would be criticized as being judgemental, legalistic, and Pharisaical. It woul be good to remember who the Pharisees were, and their lives they led. They were utterly strict keepers of the law. Yet Jesus informs us that unless our righteousness EXCEED that of these most strict law keepers, we shall in no wise enter the kingdom.  Remember also that Jesus did NOT correct the Pharisees when He observed their tithing of herbs...Jesus said to His disciples that that ought to be done, but aded that other aspects of the law were being neglected...love and mercy.

[Guest shiloh357]

23 hours ago, brakelite said:

Whatever we do in life we do as a natural response and reflection of who we are. We sinned in our unconverted carnal lives because it was natural for us to do so. A truly born again new creature in Christ may as a babe in Christ continue to sin, but it is unatural for him because he is a new creature. As he grows in faith, the sin will decrease and the works shall increase, all as a natural outflow of what is now a branch grafter ontoa good olive tree and producing good fruit.

Unfortunately, what I see in mainstream and evangelical Christianity is rampant materialism and worldliness. This tells me that most 'Christians' today are not new creatures but still carnal branches bearing the natural fruit of a  wild tree destined for destruction.

If I said these words inmost forums I would be criticized as being judgemental, legalistic, and Pharisaical. It woul be good to remember who the Pharisees were, and their lives they led. They were utterly strict keepers of the law. Yet Jesus informs us that unless our righteousness EXCEED that of these most strict law keepers, we shall in no wise enter the kingdom.  Remember also that Jesus did NOT correct the Pharisees when He observed their tithing of herbs...Jesus said to His disciples that that ought to be done, but aded that other aspects of the law were being neglected...love and mercy.

Actually, if you study history, the Pharisees were not strict keepers of the law.  They were keepers of tradition and placed tradition in a higher place of authority than the law.  They had a long list of loopholes that gave them the ability skirt the law while being able to hold up the illusion of keeping the law.  They were anything but law keepers.

I agree that the church is full of false converts.  But we have created a system where it is taboo to question whether someone's profession of faith is genuine or not.   We are expected to take their word for it that they are actual believers.  The hardest people to reach with the Gospel is religious people who think they are just fine and don't need the Gospel.

Too many so-called "Christians" abide in "cultural Christianity.  It is a form of Christianity that is absent of Christ.  It is mostly an observance of the externalities of Christian religious rigmarole.  They are very religious, but they have never actually embraced Christ.  They assent to some of the teachings of Jesus, the ones they don't find offensives, but they reject the authority of Scripture for the most part.   They assent to some of what they see as the more benign teaching of Jesus, but they reject their need for the Gospel and the saving work of Christ.