Apostles and Prophets

[firestormx]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

Those requirements applied to the 12 apostles.  That particular office died with the last apostle.   The role of church planter/missionary is the closest thing we have to that office.    I don't think we have the biblical office of prophet as we see it in the book of Acts operating  in our day.

I agree there is a difference between the role or office of the 12 and the office of the Apostle that I am speaking of. 

[firestormx]

3 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

One of the requirements for being an Apostle was that an Apostle had to be a witness of Jesus' ministry while Jesus was alive.

I thought this was a requirement for being one of the 12 only? Isn't there a difference between being in the office of an Apostle and being one of the 12?

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, firestormx said:

Are Apostles and Prophets for today?

Were the only Apostles the 12 and Paul or were Barnabas and James the brother of the Lord Apostles as well?

If you believe Apostles are for today, then what are their responsibilities? 

 

Posted by edit after original post

What makes someone an Apostle or what are the qualifications to be an Apostle.

obviously your gonna get different answers because of different doctrins and church beliefs.

probably should study on your own. there are the 12 Apostals of Christ their names written on foundation stones of New Jerusalem. most references to apostal in scripture refer to them. There are scriptures that tell us the requirements of these 12 selected by God in acts. They had to be with jesus for all his teaching, witness the resurection, be filled with the Spirt and sent out at penticost. you can look at acts for the qualifiers.

Then in some places like John apostal and diciple are often innerchangable.

Then you have a generic apostal, one who is sent this would be banabas and others i include Paul here. I do not count him as one of the 12 who's names are written on the foundation stones of New Jerusalem. 

also see warnings on false apostal in 2 chorinthians. I believe some of the churches restoring the office of apostal fit under the description of the false apostals.

I also think if the Lord has equiped us and sent us we fit as apostals described in the scripture under the generic apostal

 

[firestormx]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

You asked, "Who has that authority now if Jesus can't make Apostles anymore."

So I brought up Acts 17:11 showing the writings of the Prophets and Apostles are our authority.

There is no new biblical revelation despite what groups like NAR try to claim.

thanks for clarifying your position 

[firestormx]

2 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In the New Testament, the only people that are referred to as Apostles are the original 12, Matthias, who took Judas's place, Paul and Barnabas.  That's it.  15 people in all.  There were no other persons referred to as Apostles at all. There where no further Apostles after these Apostles died.  Peter gave the requirements for being an Apostle when Matthias was chosen and we have no other people being chosen as Apostles after that except Jesus directly chosing Paul Himself as an Apostle to the Gentiles and Barnabas who seemed to be chosen to aid Paul with his ministry although I can't find anywhere that talks about how or why Barnabas was chosen.

Acts 1:20-26  20 "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, " 'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, " 'May another take his place of leadership.'  21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,  22 beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."  23 So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias.  24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen  25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."  26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
 

What is your position on James the brother of the Lord? Unless I'm wrong didn't he lead the early church? could he have done that and not been an apostle? just picking your brain, hope you don't mind.

[firestormx]

14 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

obviously your gonna get different answers because of different doctrins and church beliefs.

probably should study on your own. there are the 12 Apostals of Christ their names written on foundation stones of New Jerusalem. most references to apostal in scripture refer to them. There are scriptures that tell us the requirements of these 12 selected by God in acts. They had to be with jesus for all his teaching, witness the resurection, be filled with the Spirt and sent out at penticost. you can look at acts for the qualifiers.

Then in some places like John apostal and diciple are often innerchangable.

Then you have a generic apostal, one who is sent this would be banabas and others i include Paul here. I do not count him as one of the 12 who's names are written on the foundation stones of New Jerusalem. 

also see warnings on false apostal in 2 chorinthians. I believe some of the churches restoring the office of apostal fit under the description of the false apostals.

I also think if the Lord has equiped us and sent us we fit as apostals described in the scripture under the generic apostal

 

yeah, I agree the 12 are different from the office that Paul and Barnabus held.

[firestormx]

3 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Apostle was not the only leadership position in the church.  Prophets were mentioned but no clear guidelines are given for who qualifies as a NT prophet or what the qualifications are.  There were pastors, teachers, etc.  James leading a church does not mean he had to be an Apostle.

I guess I've always thought of Apostle as the highest position a person can be granted by Christ in the church. thanks for letting me pick your brain.

[Zemke]

I'm with Shiloh on this one.

A church planting missionary is different than a pastor and a denomination like Calvary Chapel has suffered from not making that distinction. They follow a pattern of the one who plants the church is the pastor of that church and actually will be for a while as he builds up those who God saves but at some point Gods gifting will wain as it increases in others. Leadership is plural and the single pastor governing of that denomination, while for a time may work well, eventually creates problems if others aren't matured into elders.

The church planter at some point will notice this and he should be happy and should start taking steps back and becoming even more personal with the men preparing them for leadership, responsibility,  becoming just one of the guys until the Lord calls him elsewhere.

The term apostle trips us up because we think of the twelve and Paul and our minds tend to think in worldly leadership format. There are none like the twelve and like Paul anymore. But God still gifts men to be church planting missionaries.

It's like the Prophets of old. A real prophet a person would not want to be so they had many false prophets. Well if we look at the real lives of missionaries most of us will be thankful for our portion.

I was in Germany with a man who was a pastor of a Calvary and he approached a statue with skin heads on and around the statue. He had an interpreter with him and we were about 50 feet or so away and within 5 minutes they were coming off the statue surrounding him and he sat on the base of the statue and had them captivated. He also gave some teachings in churches that were far above the quality he was giving back home. It reminded me of when I first attended his church.

I don't use the term apostle because of the social hangups it has but church planter or missionary is different than a pastor.

I've seen the gift first hand and it's natural and amazing. Supernaturally natural was a term he used to use.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Zemke

[Reinitin]

7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Apostle was not the only leadership position in the church.  Prophets were mentioned but no clear guidelines are given for who qualifies as a NT prophet or what the qualifications are.  There were pastors, teachers, etc.  James leading a church does not mean he had to be an Apostle.

The testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy              ( Revelation). All of us that testify of Christ, empowered by the Spirit of truth unto salvation are new testiment prophets:)

Edited August 28, 2017 by Reinitin

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, firestormx said:

Are Apostles and Prophets for today?

Were the only Apostles the 12 and Paul or were Barnabas and James the brother of the Lord Apostles as well?

If you believe Apostles are for today, then what are their responsibilities? 

 

Posted by edit after original post

What makes someone an Apostle or what are the qualifications to be an Apostle.

Hi firestormx,

A question dear to my heart. I was brought up in the Apostolic Church, the leaders having come from the Welsh revival, (early last century). My grandparents came out from Scotland and brought the revelation with them to Australia. I am the third generation Apostolic. My grandfather and uncle were (passed on now) Apostles and both were Presidents of the denomination at different times. I grew up under many Apostles and Prophets.

We were laughed at for our beliefs, by even other Pentecostals, however in time they also have come to recognise those ministries upon certain people. There are many false Apostles and Prophets today, as it has become the `flavour of the month` as it were.

The Apostles and Prophets as well as the other ascension ministries of our Lord, are given from Himself because He has ascended. They are to build the Body of Christ to maturity in Christ. (Eph. 4: 11 - 16) The other 12 Apostles which the Lord chose before He ascended, were to witness to Israel of His life and resurrection, that God made Him Lord and Christ. They will eventually rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Acts 1: 21 & 22,  2: 36,  Matt. 19: 28)

Now there are many Apostles mentioned in the New Testament. eg. 1 Thess. 1: 1 & 2: 6 show that Paul, Silvanus and Timothy were Apostles. The main aspect of an Apostle would be His Christ-likeness. Christ exhibits Himself in a marked way through these people. They are not CEO`s of organisations as people try to label their leaders. Often the Apostle will exhibit many of the other ministries, eg prophet, teacher, etc. And may I say that all over the world the Lord, the Head of the Body will have these individuals building up His body, & often where the media and public eye does not see. These Apostles are humble people, & not making money selling their tapes, books etc.

The most important thing that stands out to me from my experience under Apostles, is their deep revelation of our Lord, His character and His purposes.

regards, Marilyn.  

BTW If people read what I write in my blog then that is what I have learnt under these Apostles.