Is a divorce unattainable besides unfaithfulness or death of spouse ?

[GandalfTheWise]

27 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

That sounds like highly complex learning their. 

ME I just keep it REAL SIMPLE.  IF JESUS said it was adultery.  THEN IT IS.  I don't have to UNDERSTAND to OBEY.   perhaps

a more childlike approach will work out far better for you.   And lest you become as small children , you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I don't THINK..............just by grace I OBEY THE ONE WHO KNOWS ALL.  and SPOKE ALL for our good unto HIS GLORY when we obey him.   Man I could sing

all day about loving the TRUTH, their jus is no greater joy.  amen.

To have childlike trust, confidence, and faith in our Father is part of our calling as Christians.  However, to exclusively think like a child (or to not think at all) is an entirely different matter.

I have never met a Christian that did not apply some type of interpretation and explanation to particular verses and passages in scripture as to why or why not they don't apply today.   For example, Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.  Exodus 35:3 AV.  I don't know any Christians who believe those of us who live in Wisconsin should turn off our furnaces every sabbath day during the winter because it's a sin to have them on.  I don't know any Christians who refuse to start their automobiles on the sabbath because that would be starting a fire (via the gas burning in the engine).   We look at this verse and say it applied only to the Israelites and not us.  

Many Christians take Exodus 20:13 ("Thou shalt not kill.") and interpret it to mean "except in self-defense or as capital punishment or in a just cause in warfare" or point out that it most likely should have been translated as "Thou shalt not murder." 

The reality is that we all apply interpretation to some degree in order to discern what indeed is what is pleasing to God.  I choose to take this very seriously and study as diligently as possible so as to do it with as much discernment and wisdom as possible to determine what is pleasing to God.  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  II Tim 2:15 AV   

 

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  I Cor 13:7 AV

 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.  Hebrews 5:12-14 AV

 

 

[Reinitin]

6 hours ago, layhoma said:

Even in today's standard in churches when physical abuses are reported in marriages they would intervene by recommending the victim to separate in hopes that restoration may take place to mend the relationship.  But never suggest the possibility of a divorce.

 

Divorce seems like a taboo unless it involves unfaithfulness or the death of a spouse. Anything beyond is like uncharted territory for us Christians.

 

Long story short, it involves the testimony of a female friend.  She got involved back less than  2 years ago with a man she met in her night classes in College. He was a divorcee. Because he knew she was a Christian and he wasn't, he showed his resolve by voluntarily taking up Bible classes and later to become a born again Christian. When the time was ripe, he proposed.  She accepted.  I'm sure you have already spotted a few red flags.

 

Just a few weeks ago, she left him with a few boxes of her belongings, rented a beat up room and is filing for a divorce. She was hiding a lot of shame until she told me all about it recently.

 

I will have to take her words, not only because I've known her for 25 years, but because she is a genuine God fearing woman.  So whatever she confesses it sticks, in my book.

 

Based from her testimony, her husband is not what she thought would be by breaking promises upon promises he made before marriage. There's no point in getting into the nitty gritty details, but based from 4 undeniable facts, this marriage is a sham, for lack of a better word.

 

1. He is driving a wedge between her friends and even her parents. He hates her visiting or contacting her parents by phone. He rejects the idea of helping them out by financial means even though he has high earnings. So much for honouring mom and dad.

 

2. He is a miser.  Even when she requires medical help when she has depression, he refuses to pay for her medical bill.  His reason is it's all in her head.  So much for loving your wife.

 

3. He uses the analogy of having made a bad investment in this marriage.  Always juxtaposing their marriage as a bad investment (yes in monetary value). Whatever that means..

 

4. He publicly and privately demeans and disparage his wife with unfathomable languages in short of physically striking her. He knows not how to build, but quick to accuse.

 

I can't judge this man because I don't know him. More importantly, I can't because I don't want the Lord to judge me.  BUT what I have is spiritual discernment.  I can tell by the fruits of a person by his deeds, that much I can tell you.

 

So back to the initial topic, what would you do if you were in her shoes? She is being emotionally traumatized in the past 18 months.  Their counselor (Pastor) has reached the conclusion that the husband has his heart so hardened that he finds no fault and unwilling to compromise.  In fact, he has made several attempts to threaten her for a divorce just to incite terror and exert control over her. There is no end in sight.  In such an abusive relationship what would you do? Better yet, what would Jesus do?

 

 

 

You almost have to go to bible law school to answer this. People have verses and doctrins and all kinds of strange ideas. If a man didnt treat his wife good she could go back to he parents house. women can't file divorce in the old jewish law but we could freely leave to pray or go back to our parents if we were mistreated. Fathers could keep the bride price if men were horrible to their daughter. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, GandalfTheWise said:

To have childlike trust, confidence, and faith in our Father is part of our calling as Christians.  However, to exclusively think like a child (or to not think at all) is an entirely different matter.

I have never met a Christian that did not apply some type of interpretation and explanation to particular verses and passages in scripture as to why or why not they don't apply today.   For example, Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.  Exodus 35:3 AV.  I don't know any Christians who believe those of us who live in Wisconsin should turn off our furnaces every sabbath day during the winter because it's a sin to have them on.  I don't know any Christians who refuse to start their automobiles on the sabbath because that would be starting a fire (via the gas burning in the engine).   We look at this verse and say it applied only to the Israelites and not us.  

Many Christians take Exodus 20:13 ("Thou shalt not kill.") and interpret it to mean "except in self-defense or as capital punishment or in a just cause in warfare" or point out that it most likely should have been translated as "Thou shalt not murder." 

The reality is that we all apply interpretation to some degree in order to discern what indeed is what is pleasing to God.  I choose to take this very seriously and study as diligently as possible so as to do it with as much discernment and wisdom as possible to determine what is pleasing to God.  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  II Tim 2:15 AV   

 

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  I Cor 13:7 AV

 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.  Hebrews 5:12-14 AV

 

 

Yeah but when our so called MEAT allows us to go around JESUS sayings , that aint MEAT its poison.   remarriage is adultery.  If your problem is with me

its not with me.......JESUS said it first, I only repeat what HE says.   fornication or death , the only justifiable means for remarriage in JESUS EYES.

and I sure am not better nor wiser than JESUS.  oh let me say that again.  I say, I say I am no better nor wiser than JESUS.  So I don't find a way around his sayings .

I just have the joy of living them out by the SPIRIT.   no meat which allows a way around JESUS sayings is meat.   Its wrapped as meat , meant to make us seem wise

but really the serpent has one job.  ready.  okay.  HE COMES in and get us to do one thing, DISOBEY JESUS.  that is his entire mission. 

And he sure knows how to feed mens minds who are filled with worldly wisdom.    Me,   JESUS SAYINGS ONLY and ONLY JESUS SAYINGS shall be loved and kept. 

 

[Heleadethme]

We don't have to wrack our brains interpreting the law about marriage........because Jesus explained it for us.  He said Moses permitted divorce only as a concession due to the  hardness of hearts.......hopefully none of us think we are wiser than He.  We're under a new covenant now.......one that serves in the new way of the Spirit not the letter of the Law.........so that by the Spirit we seek to obey and keep the commandments that Jesus gave us.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, Heleadethme said:

We don't have to wrack our brains interpreting the law about marriage........because Jesus explained it for us.  He said Moses permitted divorce only as a concession due to the  hardness of hearts.......hopefully none of us think we are wiser than He.  We're under a new covenant now.......one that serves in the new way of the Spirit not the letter of the Law.........so that by the Spirit we seek to obey and keep the commandments that Jesus gave us.

That is so beautiful sister.   I don't justiy myself by the law.    who understands the whole rightly divided law best.  Us or JESUS.

GOOD THEN.   I am glad everyone agrees , ITS JESUS.  SO WHO IS OUR LORD.................us, our pastor........OR JESUS ONLY. GOOD I am glad we all agree

JESUS ONLY.  SO FOLLOW HIM and KEEP HIS SAYINGS , IF he is your LORD, if not ,well, their is no hope .

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

We don't have to wrack our brains interpreting the law about marriage........because Jesus explained it for us.  He said Moses permitted divorce only as a concession due to the  hardness of hearts.......hopefully none of us think we are wiser than He.  We're under a new covenant now.......one that serves in the new way of the Spirit not the letter of the Law.........so that by the Spirit we seek to obey and keep the commandments that Jesus gave us.

By grace sister I see the same thing...........I don't need to understand or wrack my brain about this or that.  ITS SIMPLE.  IF JESUS SAID IT DO IT

IF HE CALLED IT EVIL DONT.   NOW HOW SIMPLE IS THAT>     I warned us all, I am just a plain simple man.   Don't know my right hand from my left.

BUT I SURE KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES KNOW ALL.  and that is all I NEED. amen.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, GandalfTheWise said:

To have childlike trust, confidence, and faith in our Father is part of our calling as Christians.  However, to exclusively think like a child (or to not think at all) is an entirely different matter.

I have never met a Christian that did not apply some type of interpretation and explanation to particular verses and passages in scripture as to why or why not they don't apply today.   For example, Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.  Exodus 35:3 AV.  I don't know any Christians who believe those of us who live in Wisconsin should turn off our furnaces every sabbath day during the winter because it's a sin to have them on.  I don't know any Christians who refuse to start their automobiles on the sabbath because that would be starting a fire (via the gas burning in the engine).   We look at this verse and say it applied only to the Israelites and not us.  

Many Christians take Exodus 20:13 ("Thou shalt not kill.") and interpret it to mean "except in self-defense or as capital punishment or in a just cause in warfare" or point out that it most likely should have been translated as "Thou shalt not murder." 

The reality is that we all apply interpretation to some degree in order to discern what indeed is what is pleasing to God.  I choose to take this very seriously and study as diligently as possible so as to do it with as much discernment and wisdom as possible to determine what is pleasing to God.  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  II Tim 2:15 AV   

 

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  I Cor 13:7 AV

 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.  Hebrews 5:12-14 AV

 

 

Hey Gandalf, Jesus DID however SAY................BUT I SAY , BUT I SAY, BUT I SAY, BUT I SAY, BUT I SAY, but I SAY unto YOU

that whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another commits adultery , and who ever even marries her commits adultery.   Paul knew it too.

SO, with all your learned high and mighty man madewisdom.   WHO knows the law better YOU , ME,  OR JESUS.  exactly . JESUS.  so

lets not encourage ADULTERY .   Ps........I used to be a wicked pig and I cant help but notice something .  Where on earth did you pick the name GANDALF from.

IT SEEMS so FAMILIAR.   SO on the tip of my tongue.   Anyway just ponder on what I said. 

[Heleadethme]

56 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

By grace sister I see the same thing...........I don't need to understand or wrack my brain about this or that.  ITS SIMPLE.  IF JESUS SAID IT DO IT

IF HE CALLED IT EVIL DONT.   NOW HOW SIMPLE IS THAT>     I warned us all, I am just a plain simple man.   Don't know my right hand from my left.

BUT I SURE KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES KNOW ALL.  and that is all I NEED. amen.

  Amen brother.....I can hardly chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.....it's a good thing I don't have to lean on my own understanding, especially as I get older.......the carnal mind is ENMITY with God...........but HE gives understanding without upbraiding to those who ask.  Where I find the intellect at work, I always see mixture, including my own.  And God hates mixture!.......so best not offer that to Him as the fruit of our lips.

[Wayne222]

One thing if a man misrepresent himself then when they marry she is really not married to the person she committed her vows to. If he pretended to be a Christian and then they married and he really was not then that's fraud. She should have a adulment then. God did not honor that marriage under those lies.

[appy]

A person can NOT be both an abuser and have Christ like actions and qualities at the same time. Any individual who claims to know and serve Jesus but abuses his or her family is a hypocrite of the worst kind. Abuse is not just limited to physical damage but also emotional distress by using abusive language or behavior with specific intent to demean, intimidate, threaten and tear down. In a marriage ceremony the bride and groom both promise to love and honor one another. When either of the spouses abuses the other, then the promise they made was a lie.

Both emotional and / or physical abuse violates the command to love and honer God with all your heart and mind.

Both emotional and / or physical abuse violates the command to love one another as Christ loves us

Both emotional and /or physical abuse violates the command that husbands are to love their wives just as wives are to submit to the husband

Both emotional and /or physical abuse violates the command to live the Christian life through the denying of self

Both emotional and /or physical abuse violates the command that as Christians we are to have wholesome speech

Both emotional and / or physical abuse shows that the abuser has pride and lacks the fear of God

Both emotional and /or physical abuse causes the abuser to feel that he or she deserves glory, honor, and praise.

Both emotional and / or physical abuse is betrayal to God and people by trying to be like God and deceiving others.

People who get enjoyment out of abusing a spouse and it doesn't matter which gender does the abuse. Are people who do not want to change. They are not willing to change. So in most situations the only option for the victims is divorce. Divorce in this case allows the victims to get completely away from the abuser. Abusers can never be trusted, because they can not or will not control their own emotions. An abuser resists the call to repentance, either by overtly fighting against having to take responsibility for his or her abusive behavior, or by counterfeiting repentance to get the admonishers off his/her back and make them think he/she is really changing.

Along with unfaithfulness, abuse of spouse and / or family is a valid reason for a divorce to take place. Since both have already abandoned the marriage through their actions. No one likes to be abused, and I'm very sure that those who claim that other people have to stay with an abusive spouse, would NOT enjoy being abused themselves in any shape or form. So why put the same burden on someone else, that you , yourself would not want to happen.