convert or disciple?

[Willa]

Yes Jesus made atonement available to all.  The gift of salvation is freely available to all, but many resist God's grace and resist the call of the Holy Spirit.  I don't believe a person must be born again to have the blindness removed from his eyes to see God and have his ears opened to hear the call of the Holy Spirit to repentance.  We receive the right to become children of God when we receive Christ as God in human flesh, sacrifice for our sins and arose from the dead.  We can resist and scorn this message, or we can receive Him as Lord and God. It is God who sets us up to desire forgiveness, but we have the choice to resist His grace.  We can resist His conviction of sin and of rejection Christ.  We can resist the message of Christ's death for our sins or of His resurrection.  We can resist at any point in the process and harden our own hearts against God.

1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 1Ti 2:4  who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth,

1Ti 4:10  For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Mat 23:37  “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets, and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!

Act 7:51  “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do.

 

Joh 3:18  He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Joh 3:19  This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.

 

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

No. There is a difference between Jesus providing redemption for all mankind on the one hand and persons appropriating that redemption by faith on the other hand.

If all their sins are forgiven, why should they bother they are in.

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Again, the point is conversion is God’s work, discipleship is ours.

Where does it say that in the bible? I have never read that. 

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, Robert William said:

That's only the world of believers, scripture does not teach universal salvation.

where does it say that in the bible?

[Robert William]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Why do you misquote? I said redemption was provided for all, a person receives forgiveness BY FAITH on account of that redemptive work.

Let me ask you this, if Jesus died only for the elect how do you know objectively from Scripture that He died for you?

If all their sins are Atoned and they are forgiven, why should they bother they are in.

 

The predestined elect are born again at their appointed time, then they know.

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Robert William said:

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Nobody is saying anything about universal salvation.  How did you get that from what I posted?

If you reread John 3:16-17, you will understand that salvation is for everyone, IF they accept it.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

There are conditions to salvation.

You told me that Jesus Atoned for the sins of all humans if that is true all their sins are forgiven.

Jesus did die for everyone, as the scripture provided verifies.  That does not mean everyone will accept salvation through Him.  There is a huge difference.  Notice what I underlined?  "Whoever believe in Him" and that the world through Him "might be saved".  See the conditions?  Once needs to accept and believe in Christ Jesus in order for the gift to be accepted.

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

where does it say that in the bible?

I hope you don't believe that scriptures teach universal salvation, if you believe John 3:16 is saying that Jesus Atoned  for the sins of ALL humans then you are preaching universal salvation, nobody who's sins have been Atoned for can end up in Hell, and scripture teaches that most will be on the broad path to destruction.

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

2 hours ago, Robert William said:

You told me that Jesus Atoned for the sins of all humans if that is true all their sins are forgiven.

Let us die to our own theology tonight.   NO it don't mean that,  IT means everyone COULD have been forgiven.

but the CONTRACT for this very forgivness states and I quoate .    IF ye believe NOT IN ME , ye shall DIE IN YOUR SINS. 

I can cook a meal for the world, but only those who EAT IT , received IT.

I do believe that response was to me.  He was not replying to you so no need to be aggravated by his response.

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Jesus did die for everyone, as the scripture provided verifies.  That does not mean everyone will accept salvation through Him.  There is a huge difference.  Notice what I underlined?  "Whoever believe in Him" and that the world through Him "might be saved".  See the conditions?  Once needs to accept and believe in Christ Jesus in order for the gift to be accepted.

If their sins are forgiven they don't need to accept, they already have eternal life in the Kingdom.:)

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Robert William said:

If Jesus Atoned for the sins of all humans then all their sins are Atoned for and they are sinless.

Did God destroy man kind? Our grant and age of grace for the full number of gentiles?

 All Israel was not forgiven every year the priest offered the blood of a perfect lamb without spot or blemish for attonement of sin. They just were not destoyed under the weight of sin when they offered the blood but didn't repent a remenant was saved but many were led into captivity. God still opened the books after the 40 day of repentence and put who repented and who didn't in the books. Each Individualy by their own works. just cause you dont understand something of God or can't explain it has no effect on if it is true or not.