Bethel Church - A Different Gospel

[Shazzmazz]

5 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Every Charismatic Megachurch out there makes that same un-testable claim.   "They are making a huge impact in the world for the Gospel."  That is an empty statement.

Explain to us exactly what these "huge impacts" are.  Please present documentation for the vast numbers of people Bill Johnson claims have been "healed" at Bethel.  Please explain to us why occultic practices that God condemns are practiced at Bethel.  If they are valid, biblical practices, that should be extremely easy.

Sounds like you don’t believe God heals people in this day and age? And only the demonic has power and not God? 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Shazzmazz said:

Sounds like you don’t believe God heals people in this day and age? And only the demonic has power and not God? 

No, that is not what he said.   He said he doesn't believe the claims made by Johnson, particularly the empty claim about making a "huge impact."

[Joshua-777]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Do you have an answer to this?...

 

Reading the testimony, it appears she already had a predisposition in her heart against them and the fruit is anger, malace trying to cause division amongst them.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Joshua-777

[Joshua-777]

48 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Michael Brown, I refuse to call him "Dr.," soft-pedals anything and anyone who is Charismatic and Bill Johnson is a notorious waffler when it comes to any aberrant subject his church advocates.  In the interview with Brown, Johnson sort-of denies their doctrine of grave soaking, but in one of his books, he endorses it:

Until Johnson either revises that book, or pulls it from bookstore shelves, he endorses the practice of grave soaking.

Kris Vallotton, (I am sure you know who he is) contradicts himself on Facebook about this practice saying in one paragraph he didn't know anything about it and then in another paragraph that grave soaking has been a running joke inside Bethel for years.

https://www.facebook.com/kvministries/posts/ive-been-asked-what-i-think-about-grave-sucking-several-times-lately-personally-/10152893202998741/

It is also odd that Johnon says he does not endorse the practice when his wife Beni obviously does:  

Bill Johnson is the original practitioner of damage control when his aberrant practices become known to the public sector.  Avoid, distance, spin.  Repeat.

 

Can anointings, mantles, etc be passed down from one general in the faith to another? I believe so, Elijah and Elisha also are a good example. The statement in the book is not saying we get them by graves, but by crying out to God for more, for God to use us like He used Paul, or Jonathan Edwards, John Wesley, Moody, Etc. It's the hearts cry and God's response that we can receive more. Also the grave practice, really isn't a practice there, it's a made up evangelical slam. Don't know what the picture is about but I do not see Beni saying, I'm sucking anointing out of this grave in the pic.

[Joshua-777]

1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Every Charismatic Megachurch out there makes that same un-testable claim.   "They are making a huge impact in the world for the Gospel."  That is an empty statement.

Explain to us exactly what these "huge impacts" are.  Please present documentation for the vast numbers of people Bill Johnson claims have been "healed" at Bethel.  Please explain to us why occultic practices that God condemns are practiced at Bethel.  If they are valid, biblical practices, that should be extremely easy.

Well, I went out with a team of students from Bethel. The team ministered to a lady who was addicted to drugs. She recieved Jesus as her Lord, and smashed her crack pipe in front of everyone in repentance. She then started open air preaching that she's following Jesus now. That same day me and another bethel student tried praying for a drug dealer, he ran off but the girl he was selling to gave her life to the Lord and crushed her drugs as we sang nothing but the blood of Jesus. She is currently in a rehab and connected to a Church. In Brazil, I was with a lady from Bethel and saw hundreds come to the alter for salvation, and was blessed to be a part of many outreaches, on one in Rio we saw a prostitute and her pimp give their lives to the Lord and later on I was sent a video of her getting baptized in a Church. One boy also had a brain tumor in his head and when we landed back in the states we got a message from the pastor that the doctors couldn't find the tumor anymore and that he was completely healed. Those are personal experiences I've had ministering along side people from Bethel and saw the impact of the Gospel.

I believe alot of the occultic practices that people claim are garbage and lies from the pit of hell. Others things, like glory clouds, gold dust, and strange manifestations, people don't understand so they condemn. A glory cloud appearing where God is exalted and worshiped is actually more biblical than the doctrine of cessationism.

http://documentedhealings.com/bethel-church-healing/

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Joshua-777 said:

They believe Jesus is the son of God, born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, died on a cross for all mans sins, and rose again. They believe that we are saved through faith in Jesus and repentance, (turning from sin to serve the living God). the believe in a literal heaven and hell, and that Jesus is coming again. Te believe in the authority of scripture. They also believe the continuation of spiritual gifts and the need to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth,

They hold to the core doctrines of Christianity
 

They mix in just enough truth to make the error look plausible.

Quote

They carry the fruit of the Spirit. I have ministered with many people from Bethel, and Some of my good friends have graduated Bethel's school. The fruit of the Spirit is abundant in their lives, they are humble, passionately in love with Jesus, bold to share the Gospel of Christ, and many of them are leading non-believers to the Lord on a daily basis.

Which doesn't mean they are not teaching false doctrine. 

Quote

I have asked many people who go to the school about "grave sucking" and other strange things heresy hunters like to accuse them of and each one of them think that is ridiculous and it it not taught, practiced, or encouraged at Bethel. Bill Johnson Himself did an interview with Dr. Brown addressing many of these issues. If someone has something against Bethel, let them get it from Bethel first hand and not some heresy hunter video or blog. People slant and twist their opinions and even straight up lie about it. The devil is the accuser of brethren, we should never act like him.

Yes, like Johnson has any credibility after he affirmed the ministry of adulterer , Todd Bentley.  And don't get me started on that heretic.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

16 minutes ago, Joshua-777 said:

 

Can anointings, mantles, etc be passed down from one general in the faith to another? I believe so, Elijah and Elisha also are a good example. The statement in the book is not saying we get them by graves, but by crying out to God for more, for God to use us like He used Paul, or Jonathan Edwards, John Wesley, Moody, Etc. It's the hearts cry and God's response that we can receive more. Also the grave practice, really isn't a practice there, it's a made up evangelical slam. Don't know what the picture is about but I do not see Beni saying, I'm sucking anointing out of this grave in the pic.

Nothing in the Bible teaches that mantles are passed down.   You fall into really bad teaching when you start making doctrines out of stories in the Bible.  God doesn't necessarily use anyone like He uses someone else.    We should not be seeking someone else's anointing.

[Joshua-777]

21 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Nothing in the Bible teaches that mantles are passed down.   You fall into really bad teaching when you start making doctrines out of stories in the Bible.  God doesn't necessarily use anyone like He uses someone else.    We should not be seeking someone else's anointing.

For me, I love Church history and when I read in the past how thousands and thousands came to the Lord, In my private prayer life I cry out to God to use me like that. I want to see multitudes come to the Lord. It may not be the same anointing as a past revivalist but it positions my heart for more.

[Joshua-777]

27 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

They mix in just enough truth to make the error look plausible.

Which doesn't mean they are not teaching false doctrine. 

Yes, like Johnson has any credibility after he affirmed the ministry of adulterer , Todd Bentley.  And don't get me started on that heretic.

 

 Bill Johnson rebuked Todd Bentley personally for his sin, and counseled him and helped him get back to a healthy place in the Lord. Where much of the Church would slap heretic on him and would rather see him die than be in ministry, Bill Johnson walked with him and poured into him all they while not agreeing with his errors.

[Guest shiloh357]

51 minutes ago, Joshua-777 said:

 Bill Johnson rebuked Todd Bentley personally for his sin, and counseled him and helped him get back to a healthy place in the Lord. Where much of the Church would slap heretic on him and would rather see him die than be in ministry, Bill Johnson walked with him and poured into him all they while not agreeing with his errors.

I saw that "restoration" video.  His adultery was completely whitewashed.   He was having an affair with his current wife while married to someone else and that was glossed over, like it was water under the bridge.  

Anyone who says that the Holy Spirit tells him to kick people in the face, knock them to the ground and choke them is a grade A heretic and is no doubt hearing from 'a' spirit but not the Holy Spirit.