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16 hours ago, Sister said:

Another valley, which is already there, just between the City of Jerusalem and the Mount of olives,  (I was wrong before, I thought it was on the west of the city) this valley is called Jehoshaphat (or valley of Hinnom), where they once sacrificed their children,...and the armies will travel down north from Megiddo through this valley making their way to the Mount of Olives to attack Christ.

Yes, this is the Kidron Valley aka the Valley of Decisions and the Valley of Jehoshapat as mentioned in the book of Joel, located a mile southeast the city of Jerusalem.  

http://bibleatlas.org/valley_of_jehoshaphat.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Decision

So when do you think this battle takes place?

 

Quote

1 seal - past (Christianity spread, but not according to the truth/nevertheless, Christ name is preached to the gentiles) - and it continues...

2nd seal - past (ww1 & ww2)...and wars continue.....

3rd seal - past (after affects of war)....and continues....

4th seal - FP and the beast are given power, death follows him, ...it starts next

5th seal - Mark of the beast is issued, then persecution of the saints.

6th seal - 7 angels/vial begin - up to the 6th angel.

7th seal - 7th angel/The coming/picking up of the saints/Christ fights back/final destruction of Babylon/Christ announced King.

This looks like a 7 Seal tribulation. How did you come to all these conclusions? Is this something taken from some website? 

Do you have the first 6 trumpets and vials placed anywhere in your picture?

 

===================================================

It's probably not worth much in the eyes of others but I see the Seals, Trumpets and Vials successively sequential and asynchronous. The first 4 Seals occurring just before the Tribulation (are now past), we're currently at the 5th Seal. All 5 Seals the time of birth pangs.

The rapture and the church seen in heaven, and the sealing of the 144,000 takes place at the 6th Seal. The commencing of the tribulation at the 7th Seal. 

The first 6 Trumpets covers the entire first half of the tribulation with the 7th Trumpet occurring a short duration just a little pass the middle of the tribulation. All 7 vials covering the rest of the 2nd half.

Currently we're at the 5th Seal, the time of the martyrs, the great Christian persecution.

Christian Persecution Hits All-Time High Worldwide: Report

Dated Oct 14, 2017

https://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-all-time-high-worldwide-report-202955/

 

Horror as Persecution of Christianity Hits All-Time High

November 23, 2017

https://pamelageller.com/2017/11/horror-persecution-christianity-hits-time-high.html/

 

WORST YEAR YET: Global Persecution Of Christians Hits Another All-Time High

Nov 15, 2017

https://biblicalsignsintheheadlines.com/2017/11/15/worst-year-yet-global-persecution-of-christians-hits-another-all-time-high/

The next prophetic event in the book of Revelation is the 6th Seal: The rapture of the Church. However there are tons of other prophecies that will be fulfilled as mentioned in the old testaments before the rapture takes place. A few of the big ones below.

~Israel will be at war, Israel's final war before the tribulation begins.

~Israel wins the war with help from America and expands her borders in all directions.

~The peace treaty.

~Israel will own Jerusalem and not just occupy the city.

~The capital will move to Jerusalem. The city of Jerusalem also expands, much larger.

~The construction of the 3rd Temple begins, and the foundation will be laid.

~The rapture of the church.

~The Two Witnesses appears at the unfinished temple.

~Then the tribulation begins.

All prophetic fulfillment and more come next year.  Sorry! I can't resist sharing, I'm just a prophetic know-it-all and can't help not throwing all that in.

And we both know the 70th year is upon us.

 

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There are two great wars to occur.  The Kings of the East are the "Mede's" (Islam and their brothers).  They have a grudge against the FP and his kingdom.  God is using them to incite this war and to destroy the "hardware" of Babylon, and all her strongholds.  All the kings of the earth join in this battle, and this war starts off as man against man, nation against nation.

Whilst they are all there in Israel (how convient), Christ appears to cut that war short or else no flesh will be saved.  But Christ is just showing signs in the sky at this moment, not making himself known yet.  Now they assemble at Armageddon to war the Lamb.

So two wars here, as soon as one finishes, preparations for the next one follow immediately leading to the destruction of all those soldiers there in the one place, ...in that valley of Jehoshaphat.

Two great wars or did you mean two huge battles in one great war?

Much like the wars of WW1 and WW2. In each war, there were more than 100 battles, with some great battles involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_I_battles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_battles

We might have to talk about the War of Gog and Magog someday.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Yes, this is the Kidron Valley aka the Valley of Decisions and the Valley of Jehoshapat as mentioned in the book of Joel, located a mile southeast the city of Jerusalem.  

Hi Psalms37:4

Thanks, I didn't know that, I will check it out.

3 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

So when do you think this battle takes place?

At the Mount of Olives? Right at the end, on the day that Christ takes dominion over the nations, probably just an hour or two before.

Christ will come with his angels and appear in the air.  I was confused before because so many scriptures said that Christ was coming with his angels only, and no mention of his saints.  This makes sense now.  He does come with his angels first, then the resurrection/quickening takes place after he has arrived (in the clouds), but not straight away, because the armies have to stop warring, and re-assemble at Megiddo awaiting their orders.  Maybe this takes a day or so, who knows.  This would be the end of the 6th trumpet/6th vial, ...that gathering at Megiddo, then the 7th Angel comes quickly,.... the resurrection/quickening, and they all together with Christ land on the Mt of Olives.  I don't know how long it will take for the armies to travel down from Megiddo and surround Mt of Olives?  An hour or two, maybe less if Christ provides a short cut for them.

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3 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

This looks like a 7 Seal tribulation. How did you come to all these conclusions? Is this something taken from some website? 

 

Psalms37:4

No, not a 7 seal tribulation.  I believe the first seal was during the time of the Romans.  Christ was preached, but only according to their religion, ...from there it continues, and many break off forming new churches etc.  I just see this as "religion", where they borrow the name of Christ, and conquer many souls bringing them into their many different folds.  Nevertherless, Christ name is preached, and the gentiles get to hear that name.  So this first seal would of started around the 1400's or so. 

No I didn't get it from a Website.  I wrote all the seals down many years ago , and lined up the trumpets and the vials side by side, and made comparisons.  That part was exciting for me to work out, but over the years, it's just the fine details I've been wanting to know, and a lot of it made sense when I connected it to many of the prophecies in the OT.

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Do you have the first 6 trumpets and vials placed anywhere in your picture?

Yes, if we go back to the 4th seal (pale horse).  This would be when the 10 kings, and the FP are given power from the dragon.  The FP will enter the scene and we will see is face.  He will rise to fame.  He's the little horn don't forget, so his power grows amongst the people.

The FP and 10 kings have already been given power from the Dragon, but when they receive power from the people, it takes a new direction.  The Mark of the Beast will be enforced as law, and this is when the saints who refuse the mark, start getting persecuted- at the 5th seal.

After nearly all of them are put out of the way, the 6th Seal begins.  This is when the 7 trumpets/vials start.  This is God's punishment on Babylon for what Babylon did to his saints, present and past.  This is when all their prayers will be answered, and vengeance of the Lord starts when the world are forced to drink the cup of his wrath - the 7 angels.

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4 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

It's probably not worth much in the eyes of others but I see the Seals, Trumpets and Vials successively sequential and asynchronous. The first 4 Seals occurring just before the Tribulation (are now past), we're currently at the 5th Seal. All 5 Seals the time of birth pangs.

Psalms37:4

Yes I can see what you're saying, I believe the first 3 seals are past also but the FP has not shown his face yet, and I believe he is that rider on the pale horse.

I understand Christians are being persecuted now, but the main focus on where Revelations ends, is because of this man, the FP, and the death he causes to all the saints world wide for not conforming to his new system and laws.

Quote

The rapture and the church seen in heaven, and the sealing of the 144,000 takes place at the 6th Seal. The commencing of the tribulation at the 7th Seal. 

Ok, that's interesting. 

 Revelation 6:15   And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

  Revelation 6:16   And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

  Revelation 6:17   For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It ends with the men hiding in the caves of the rocks because the Lamb has come.  There must be rubble everywhere.  It seems like it's the end of the trib, because the Lamb is on his throne which means he has taken over dominion of the nations.  This looks like Christ is destroying all the cities, and the nations.

 

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The first 6 Trumpets covers the entire first half of the tribulation with the 7th Trumpet occurring a short duration just a little pass the middle of the tribulation. All 7 vials covering the rest of the 2nd half.

Ok, thanks for explaining that.  Match up the trumpets and the vials side by side, you may of already done this, but I noticed one side (trumpets) gives the view from that angle, and the vials give the view from the other angle.  Like Mat, Mark, and Luke.  They all give their account, but one gives a little more added detail than the other, but all speaking about the same thing, same time, same place.

 

Quote

 

Currently we're at the 5th Seal, the time of the martyrs, the great Christian persecution.

Christian Persecution Hits All-Time High Worldwide: Report

Dated Oct 14, 2017

https://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-all-time-high-worldwide-report-202955/

 

Thanks Psalms, I will take a look at your link.  I've enjoyed our conversation.  Thank you for being polite brother.

God bless

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50 minutes ago, Sister said:

Match up the trumpets and the vials side by side, you may of already done this, but I noticed one side (trumpets) gives the view from that angle, and the vials give the view from the other angle.  Like Mat, Mark, and Luke.  They all give their account, but one gives a little more added detail than the other, but all speaking about the same thing, same time, same place.

I agree.  The connections can't be missed.  Some are more easily discernible than others but the similarities shouldn't be ignored.  The easy connections are:

  • 2nd Trumpet / Bowl - affects the sea.
  • 3rd Trumpet / Bowl - affects fresh water.
  • 4th Trumpet / Bowl - affects celestial bodies.
  • 5th Trumpet / Bowl (first woe) - darkness from the opening of the abyss.
  • 7th Trumpet / Bowl (third woe) - lightening, thunder, earthquake, hailstones.

The "not so easy" connections I see as:

  • 1st Trumpet / Bowl - drought leading to an overburdened water supply
  • 6th Trumpet / Bowl (second woe) - preparations for Armageddon (extreme judgment of the 200,000,000 - death and resurrection of the two witnesses - rallying the troops for the defense of a retaliatory attack)

Rather than different views of the same event, I see the trumpets as the beginning points, and the bowls as the ending points of the seven plagues.

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The seals are a pretext of the coming tribulation period .... the tribulation is the 70th week still to come

The 6th seal notes the beginning of the tribulation and the 7th a period of silence in heaven just before the 70th week begins

The 7 trumpets and vials will come during the tribulation period beginning in chapter 8 and ending in chapter 19

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

I agree.  The connections can't be missed.  Some are more easily discernible than others but the similarities shouldn't be ignored.  The easy connections are:

  • 2nd Trumpet / Bowl - affects the sea.
  • 3rd Trumpet / Bowl - affects fresh water.
  • 4th Trumpet / Bowl - affects celestial bodies.
  • 5th Trumpet / Bowl (first woe) - darkness from the opening of the abyss.
  • 7th Trumpet / Bowl (third woe) - lightening, thunder, earthquake, hailstones.

The "not so easy" connections I see as:

  • 1st Trumpet / Bowl - drought leading to an overburdened water supply
  • 6th Trumpet / Bowl (second woe) - preparations for Armageddon (extreme judgment of the 200,000,000 - death and resurrection of the two witnesses - rallying the troops for the defense of a retaliatory attack)

Rather than different views of the same event, I see the trumpets as the beginning points, and the bowls as the ending points of the seven plagues.

Hi Last Daze

Yes, something like that, and for Psalms37:4 to consider;

1st Trumpet

Revelation 8:7   The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

compare;

1st Vial

Revelation 16:2   And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

The sign of the first trumpet being sounded - is fire over a third of the earth.  When we see this happen, we know the grievous sores upon men are coming soon, those who received the Mark of the Beast, and who worshipped his image.  This is the vial that is poured out.

So the Mark of the Beast is issued first before all this begins.

 

2nd Trumpet

Revelation 8:8   And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

compare;

2nd Vial

 Revelation 16:3   And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

The sign of the 2nd trumpet is a third part of the sea becoming as blood.  When we see this happen, we know that every living soul in the sea will soon die. This will definately shake men up.  This is the vial that is poured out.

These plagues are to make men notice.  It is the Lord's vengeance on mankind who took the Mark to save their lives and not only that, for all their evil deeds, ....all of them who took pleasure in ungodliness and rejected the Lord, ....who served the flesh.  Food will be scarce, and I imagine a lot of crops will be burn't by the first angel.

So according to what happens is the sign of each trumpet, in their order, and what follows is the vial being poured out.  That's how I understand it.

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

The next prophetic event in the book of Revelation is the 6th Seal: The rapture of the Church. However there are tons of other prophecies that will be fulfilled as mentioned in the old testaments before the rapture takes place. A few of the big ones below.

~Israel will be at war, Israel's final war before the tribulation begins.

~Israel wins the war with help from America and expands her borders in all directions.

~The peace treaty.

~Israel will own Jerusalem and not just occupy the city.

~The capital will move to Jerusalem. The city of Jerusalem also expands, much larger.

~The construction of the 3rd Temple begins, and the foundation will be laid.

~The rapture of the church.

Psalms37:4

Thank you for sharing.

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5 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Last Daze

Yes, something like that

The only issue I can see with the trumpets and the bowls being different views of the same thing is that there will be five months of no fresh water.  I don't see anything to indicate that the effects of the plagues subside until the death of the two witnesses.

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22 hours ago, Sister said:

 I don't know how long it will take for the armies to travel down from Megiddo and surround Mt of Olives?  An hour or two, maybe less if Christ provides a short cut for them.

Hi Sister,

LOL! Well you actually stumped me. I have no idea how long it'll take them to travel that distance. I just know it's about 90 miles from Jerusalem to Megiddo. So your guess is as good as mines.

 

21 hours ago, Sister said:

Ok, that's interesting. 

 Revelation 6:15   And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

  Revelation 6:16   And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

  Revelation 6:17   For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It ends with the men hiding in the caves of the rocks because the Lamb has come.  There must be rubble everywhere.  It seems like it's the end of the trib, because the Lamb is on his throne which means he has taken over dominion of the nations.  This looks like Christ is destroying all the cities, and the nations.

Revelation 6:15-17 is a figurative scenario of what will happen immediately after the rapture (Revelation 6:12-14) when everyone on earth will realize there's a God and Jesus and the biblical prophecies of the tribulation when Christ will come to judge and destroy the wicked are all true. The wicked and unbelievers are in fear realizing His wrath has come and no one can stand or escape knowing they will be judged.

I just finished writing about the rapture on another site for a friend. I've mentioned Revelation 6:15-17 in it with more information. It'll make more sense.

http://www.cpals.net/forums/index.php?/topic/18398-scriptures-on-the-pre-tribulation-rapture/

The rapture happens in Rev 6:12-14.  Those on earth, particularly the wicked, that didn't make the rapture are reacting over what will happen is from Rev 6:15-17. Everyone on earth will know they've entered into the tribulation as given here too in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Here Christ is telling us two things. The 1st message is when He comes for the church, it'll be at a time when people are conducting normal daily routine activities.

The 2nd message is nobody knew the world entered into tribulation until the flood came back in the days of Noah. It'll be the same thing here when the rapture hits. The one single event that will happen to cause the whole world: the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man etc realize His wrath has come is when the rapture happens. 

Thousands or millions of cars, trucks, planes, trains, boats, helicopters around the world will suddenly be without drivers and pilots and crash. The whole world will know what had happened and the tribulation has started for them too just like the days of Noah when they saw the flood. 

Kinda like the second video in the link below.

 

 

 

Contrary to many beliefs, the tribulation doesn't start when the a/c confirms the covenant. That's another misunderstanding from someone reading Daniel 9:27. An honest mistake. Many even think the a/c negotiates the treaty but it's currently Trump working on the deal, not the a/c. Another honest mistake reading into bible prophecy.

The rapture of the church starts the tribulation. It's also why you see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7:9-17, which is still the 6th Seal.

 

Quote

Ok, thanks for explaining that.  Match up the trumpets and the vials side by side, you may of already done this, but I noticed one side (trumpets) gives the view from that angle, and the vials give the view from the other angle.  Like Mat, Mark, and Luke.  They all give their account, but one gives a little more added detail than the other, but all speaking about the same thing, same time, same place.

I actually did do something like that about 4 years ago lining up the Seals with the Trumpets and Vials and noticed the wordings can make it appear like the Seals can happen again during the timing of the Trumpets and again during the timing of the Vials too.

God has a way with words.

 

Quote

Thanks Psalms, I will take a look at your link.  I've enjoyed our conversation.  Thank you for being polite brother.

God bless

Oh I should actually thank you for being such a patient and tolerant sister, a real sweetheart. You know I actually wanted to explain to you what the Last Trump and the Mystery of 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 is but have been holding back not wishing to say something that would disappoint.

 

 

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