Salvation Issues OSAS Lordship Salvation etc.

[Neighbor]

Hi, The following excerpts from books of the Bible are offered without comment for the moment.  I do suggest reading them  after prayer for comprehension of the word of God, and I suggest, if interested at all, thinking on them writing down questions and conclusions as they are read. Then I suggest  asking of God again for comprehension and reconciliation  where there may  seem to be tension or conflict between the passages that have been lifted from their context to highlight them. Perhaps some comments later after I do my own praying reading study and thinking- 

And credit is given to the work of "Desiring God", John Piper. https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/five-truths-about-eternal-security 

Note: I do not yet know if I agree with the conclusions of John Piper that are a major part of his presentation of these verses and passages as given within the link above, but I certainly do appreciate his scholarship, and will happily utilize his serious work to my best benefit.

 

James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV)

 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,  let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

 

Colossians 1:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

Matthew 10:22English Standard Version (ESV)

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

 

James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV)

 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

 

Philippians 1:6English Standard Version (ESV)

 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

 

Romans 3:28English Standard Version (ESV)

 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

 

 

Romans 8:30English Standard Version (ESV)

And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

 

 

Colossians 1:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

 

Matthew 10:22English Standard Version (ESV)

 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

 

Philippians 1:6English Standard Version (ESV)

 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

Hebrews 3:13-14English Standard Version (ESV)

 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.  For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

 

PLUS: an addition from the Bible to the passage Romans 8:28 that was not part of John Piper's presentation

Romans 8:28-31English Standard Version (ESV)

 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

42 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, The following excerpts from books of the Bible are offered without comment for the moment.  I do suggest reading them  after prayer for comprehension of the word of God, and I suggest, if interested at all, thinking on them writing down questions and conclusions as they are read. Then I suggest  asking of God again for comprehension and reconciliation  where there may  seem to be tension or conflict between the passages that have been lifted from their context to highlight them. Perhaps some comments later after I do my own praying reading study and thinking- 

And credit is given to the work of "Desiring God", John Piper. https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/five-truths-about-eternal-security 

Note: I do not yet know if I agree with the conclusions of John Piper that are a major part of his presentation of these verses and passages as given within the link above, but I certainly do appreciate his scholarship, and will happily utilize his serious work to my best benefit.

 

Ripping passasge out of their immediate and literary context and presenting them as addressing issues they do not address is a very egregious error and misuse of Scripture.   I would not give a wooden nickel for John Piper.  He is out on in left in a other areas about which  he teaches.

[Dennis1209]

I'll admit for most of my life I held to the 'once saved always saved' theology. Many bright academics, scholars, teachers and even my Pastor hold to that. A debate can be made that you can not be unborn, or accepting a free gift by faith can not be taken back. On the other side of the question, there seems to be just as many creditable academics and scholars whom disagree. 

I've noticed in a number of Salvation biblical passages, the conditional word "IF" is applied, leading me to believe Salvation is conditional? So the once firm idea I had of Salvation being permanent upon acceptance of the free gift from God, through the blood of Jesus Christ dying on the cross, leads me to question OSAS?

It appears for every biblical verse in support for OSAS, there's a corresponding verse that has the conditional 'IF'. So, at this juncture of my knowledge of conditional Salvation, I really don't know. I do know that with the Lord's help and His forgiveness for my sins, I'll continue to try and walk the best I can following Jesus' commands and examples and follow the Lord the rest of my days. It's so comforting now, knowing that when I go to bed at night and my heart stops beating while I'm asleep, I have comfort and no more fear of where I'll be spending eternity. Makes for a good nights sleep...

[Heleadethme]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, The following excerpts from books of the Bible are offered without comment for the moment.  I do suggest reading them  after prayer for comprehension of the word of God, and I suggest, if interested at all, thinking on them writing down questions and conclusions as they are read. Then I suggest  asking of God again for comprehension and reconciliation  where there may  seem to be tension or conflict between the passages that have been lifted from their context to highlight them. Perhaps some comments later after I do my own praying reading study and thinking- 

And credit is given to the work of "Desiring God", John Piper. https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/five-truths-about-eternal-security 

Note: I do not yet know if I agree with the conclusions of John Piper that are a major part of his presentation of these verses and passages as given within the link above, but I certainly do appreciate his scholarship, and will happily utilize his serious work to my best benefit.

 

James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV)

 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,  let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

 

Colossians 1:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

Matthew 10:22English Standard Version (ESV)

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

 

James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV)

 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

 

Philippians 1:6English Standard Version (ESV)

 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

 

Romans 3:28English Standard Version (ESV)

 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

 

 

Romans 8:30English Standard Version (ESV)

And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

 

 

Colossians 1:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

 

Matthew 10:22English Standard Version (ESV)

 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

 

Philippians 1:6English Standard Version (ESV)

 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

Hebrews 3:13-14English Standard Version (ESV)

 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.  For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

 

PLUS: an addition from the Bible to the passage Romans 8:28 that was not part of John Piper's presentation

Romans 8:28-31English Standard Version (ESV)

 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though we may not understand everything yet, because understanding is something we are growing in, clearly there are promises as well as warnings in scripture......so we do well to heed them all and keep seeking the Lord.  When I was a child I thought as a child and reasoned as a child but as I grew I began to put childish ways behind me (this is not referring to where Jesus spoke of becoming as little children, as that is entirely a different point).......but when I think about what we were like as children, and all the pleasant illusions we had about life.......and then as we started to grow and mature, some angst to struggle through as we began to grapple with the realities of life on our way to full autonomous adulthood, and it seems to me that we can compare that to the strong meat we start to have to chew and digest as we mature.

[Justin Adams]

I have to agree with Shiloh that John Piper, being the 'New Calvinist' that he is, is not my idea of someone to adhere to or study.

Some earlier works of his have limited merit, but I would suggest Christians steer clear of him. It can be a very pervasive and intimidating doctrine that he espouses. He weaves too much pop-Psyche and classical philosophy into his works.
That he seems to be so popular is a sad commentary on peoples' discernment and questionable taste.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Justin Adams

[warrior12]

It is all about the revelation of absolute truth.   Once you have been witnessed to the truth, how could you go back to a lie.  Your eyes or i should say spiritual eyes have been opened to the truth of the word and a born again believer just cannot deny the  truth.  He now knows the consequences as light has been shone and revealed the darkness that he was once captured by.  A born again believer now knows that heaven and hell exist and God has made it clear that he would never leave us or forsake us.  The truth of the Gospel is now resident in a believer and the all hell's power cannot take away the belief of the born again child of God, though they would certainly come with all the tricks of the bag to entice and persuade ect.   The cross and the blood of Christ is now at the believer  seat in throne of his heart.  

It is the work of the devil to sow discord and present doubt, but the servants of the Lord would persist and run the race to the end as Paul so eloquently puts it.  No heights, no depths, you know the rest. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by warrior12

[Neighbor]

Hi all,

 From a list of commentaries ( http://biblehub.com/commentaries/james/5-19.htm )  on the first verse from the opening post ( James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV) My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,  let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. ), I find the most  helpful to me this one below:

19. if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him …] Better, as the verb is passive, if any of you be led astray. The “truth” here is obviously not the faith which was common to Jews and Christians, but specifically “the truth as it is in Jesus,” the truth which the “brethren,” who held the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ” (ch. James 2:1), had received as their inheritance. To convert one who had so strayed, in thought or will, in belief or act, was to bring him back to the truth.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi all,

 From a list of commentaries ( http://biblehub.com/commentaries/james/5-19.htm )  on the first verse from the opening post ( James 5:19-20English Standard Version (ESV) My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,  let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. ), I find the most  helpful to me this one below:

19. if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him …] Better, as the verb is passive, if any of you be led astray. The “truth” here is obviously not the faith which was common to Jews and Christians, but specifically “the truth as it is in Jesus,” the truth which the “brethren,” who held the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ” (ch. James 2:1), had received as their inheritance. To convert one who had so strayed, in thought or will, in belief or act, was to bring him back to the truth.

 

John piper has been exposed big time.    Hi neighbor.    I truly pray this it not one of those good churches you been telling me about.  John piper is exposed huge

Bring another example if you want to support something you believe.   John piper ,NOT a good example at all.   Just trying to expose and help is all.

You did see what I sent , you do pay attention to some of the wildest non chritain things this man has said.  I know he is hugs and smiles,  but so is joel

and he is way off too.  These men , they going under the all inclusive mindset in similar ways, some differences in their own doctrine

but the same UNIVERSAL lie ALL who refused and rejected truth are going under.  Some of them are further down the road of destucion.

But never the less,   you don't want to even begin to head down it .   Neighbor.   You know I luv ya.    Just waring out is all.  and if it helps

I will hug the screen when I am done to show this aint being mean at all.  ITS SERIOUS ,   I love ya and I don't want to see you following ones like these.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I have to agree with Shiloh that John Piper, being the 'New Calvinist' that he is, is not my idea of someone to adhere to or study.

Some earlier works of his have limited merit, but I would suggest Christians steer clear of him. It can be a very pervasive and intimidating doctrine that he espouses. He weaves too much pop-Psyche and classical philosophy into his works.
That he seems to be so popular is a sad commentary on peoples' discernment and questionable taste.

Justin YOU RIGHT ON brother.   STEER FAR FROM THIS MAN .    He has said EEERILY the same things like rick warren and others.  

ITS LIKE the same dark spirit is infecting so many now , while they may not agree ON DOCTRININAL issues identical.  THE same INCLUSIVE MINDSET

which will lead to the WHOLE HUGE UNIVIESAL LIE of the interfaith ,   this is seen in them . ITS Not an accident the jews are spreading interfaith

and I have seen the big all inclusive move on them too, well, the jews that REJECT CHRIST that is,  the true jesus ONLY saves JEWS , yeah they spotting the same universal lie

flooding into the camp.   this all inclusive mindset , is creeping into ALL religions , as well as non religious.

But its speeding up Justin.   I nearly fell out of my seat when I seen what some of them so called prophetic rabbies were saying.

This world peace message will lead to the arrival of their messiah, THEY SAY, and that this MESSIAH will unite ALL THE FIATHS < TRIBES < TONGUES

TOGETHER as ONE for world peace.    GEE WHO ON EARTH DOES THIS SOUND LIKE.   ANTI CHRIST ...................its all over, more and more

And piper is under its spell , HE may not believe everything IDENTICAL , BUT the all inclusive part aleady has him, and in time he and others like

olstein Kenny , THA POPE who heads it , will have led the whole world , religious and non religious RIGHT TO IT . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

We got to move forward.     I knows I be sounding this alarm a lot.  But if the people would take the time to investigate this and see how its moving

THEY WOULD BE  A WARNING RIGHT BY MY SIDE.    its time to move over and get off this bickering over once saved always or predeistination orwhatever

TIS COMING the monsters at the DOOR, we have major ISSUES NOW , huge ones..........and the leaders are deceiving ya .  its bad. 

the churchs are being deceived into the largest universal lie that the sepent started long ago.  but they cant see it for what it is

cause they don't come out and tell ya...........WE all serving the same GOD or that all roads lead.  NO it starts smaller at first

then increases, the whole approach , these men of belial AREVERY CLEVER how they work itover on the flocks..........using words like unity , love, friendship

peace,  THEY are liars men of belial , they selling out the flocks for more prestige , ,honor and power IN THIS NEW RELIGOIN , which they

will have power over.   But they are not going to COME RIGHT OUT and say it like it is.  THEY DECIEVE they ALLURE .  they make good seem EVIL

and make the evil seem good.   FLEE PIPER and all the likes of the company he or any of them hangs out with.

ITS a deception and a trap.  IF a lil man like me KNOWS ones like Kenneth , or olstein or rick warren are false or piper

HOW COME many other SO CALLD LEADERS in churches DONT SEE IT.    look if we have spent any time in the word of GOD

WE KNOW the false from the true. THERFORE if any of these leaders cant see it , hang around them.  LOOK OUT its a snare and a trap.

Can you imagine JESUS haning out with KENNY and not warning the flocks about wolves.

can you or any of us .   paul or john.  NO they warned out about the false ones,  so if any of your favorite teachers cannot discern the false from the true

YA GOT PROBLEMS.   any TEACHER should LONG well have had his senses exercised to know the difference. IF they are meeting up

and acting like its no big deal with the major false ones.........they are of the same spirit , whether they teach identical or just similar.    WE being duped .

this all inclusive is all over the place in many forms and its leading to bigger lies right to the ultimate deception