I Thes 5:22

[Heleadethme]

18 hours ago, Davida said:

I do not agree with that interpretation.

I'm probably not saying it very well.....I just see and know that one understanding is freedom to serve God and another understanding puts one in bondage and the fruit of it is self righteousness.  Looking at the fruit of a thing is also helpful to see if it is of God or not.  Understanding it as meaning to abstain from all forms and kinds of evil, also makes sense with the verse that is conjoined to it.  And to abstain from an outward appearance of anything, just doesn't seem to agree with what we know of God Himself and other parts of the bible, as well.  Anyhow I guess we will agree to disagree on that for now, bless you Davida.

[simplejeff]

Woe to those who cause the little children to stumble.....  the mildest of many warnings against the apostate rcc and all of its doctrines and all of its pagan practices. 

Yes, it is offensive to life. Yes, it is an abomination.  It is deadly .......  it corrupts all of God's Word.

1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said:

If you're saying that those in charge here can't tell a cultist from a true Christian, why tell me as I'm not running this website?

Practically all of the cults and heathen and other pagan practitioners are permitted to post.  They are all known and 'exposed' already,  but not stopped from posting.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said:

"Jesus said to them, 'Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:53).

That's the very point.........unfortunately the Catholic church is just dead as a doornail and worse than dead actually, like a black hole.......in spite of your saying.  But we can only discern that if we actually do have the life of Christ dwelling in us, His Spirit.  We have to actually drink of HIS life and Spirit and eat the bread of HIS word to have life.   I'm not trying to be unkind, and I pray the God and Father of Jesus Christ to deliver you from the bondage that keeps you and other Catholics from seeing the truth.

[Heleadethme]

7 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Woe to those who cause the little children to stumble.....  the mildest of many warnings against the apostate rcc and all of its doctrines and all of its pagan practices. 

Yes, it is offensive to life. Yes, it is an abomination.  It is deadly .......  it corrupts all of God's Word.

AMEN AND AMEN.  And it is just as subtle as it is deadly, it puts on such a nice, kind, comforting and gentle outward appearance.

[Heleadethme]

12 hours ago, Butero said:

I have a suggestion for those in charge at Worthy Christian Forums.  I think there should be a new label for Catholics.  Instead of Royal Member, why not just say Catholic?  That way we know what we are dealing with up front.  It certainly explains a lot.  The same thing could be done for cults like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.  That way we will immediately recognize they are not real Christians.  

Let me point something out.  I would imagine that a Catholic, that believes that when you take communion, you literally eat flesh and drink blood, must also believe that to be denied communion means you can't be saved.  As such, they can't believe those outside of the Catholic Church are really saved, so before anyone gets on their high horse and gets upset that non-Catholics may question the salvation of Catholics, I would like to know how Catholics look at non-Catholics that believe that communion is symbolic and we don't really eat flesh and drink blood.  

I don't have any wisdom at all for how forums should operate, but in general when talking to people I would rather deal with them as individuals and what they believe personally and discern by the Holy Spirit.  We can tend to make assumptions and judgments that are not completely in accordance with how God sees a person if we try to pigeon-hole them, so to speak.  Though on the other hand it can be helpful to know off the bat where a person is coming from and the kind of bondage they are in, so maybe I should just rephrase that and say we should be careful of judging by the hearing of the ear and seeing of the eye.  And amen to your second point.......it's a good one in my opinion, might borrow that sometime. 

[Guest shiloh357]

48 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

"I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty..." (John 6:35).

Do you have enough faith in Christ alone to believe that he is the "bread of life" in the here and now?

Yes, and that is why I am saved in the here and now.  And I don't take communion to stay saved.  I am saved through faith alone in Christ alone, unlike the unregenerate sinners that put their faith rituals and rites and dead saints.

Quote

How good is your uptake on this biblical doctrine?

Far better than the bargain basement nonsense that comes from the Roman cult.

 

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Does it offend you too?

Not at all.   Because unlike the adherents to the Roman cult, I understand what Jesus said how to properly interpret it.

[B3L13v3R]

36 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

John 6 (KJV).

Does it offend you too?

Mark 4:23  If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Emphasis mine:

"...This is My Body

To what exactly did Jesus ordain during the Last Supper? The Bible states:

     [Jesus] took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luke 22: 19-20)

Proponents of the Catholic Eucharist point to Jesus’ words recorded in John 6. Though this chapter does not deal with the Last Supper, Jesus’ words, which are taken to relate to the Communion meal, are as follows:

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (John 6:51-55)

 Just what do these Scriptures mean? The answer to that can be found in our examination of the Word of God itself.

Metaphors and Similes

Throughout the Bible, context determines meaning. Bible-believing Christians know to take the Bible literally, unless the context demands a figurative or symbolic interpretation. Before exploring Jesus’ words in John chapter 6 and elsewhere, let’s review a few examples of symbolism in the Scriptures. All scholars would agree that the following verses are metaphorical. An explanation follows each verse:

     O taste and see that the LORD is good. (Psalm 34:8; Try to experience God’s promises to find if they are true.)

    But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14; For those who receive the gift of salvation, Christ’s Spirit shall dwell in their souls assuring them of everlasting life.)

     Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel. So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll. (Ezekiel 3:1, 2; Receive into your heart, internalize, and obey God’s Word.)

And I could go on and on with one example after the next. At one point Jesus said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19). The Jews thought He spoke of the literal temple in Jerusalem, but if we keep reading, we find that Jesus was referring to His body (John 2:20-21). On another occasion, Jesus said, “I am the true vine” (John 15:1). Of course, we know that Jesus did not mean that He was a literal grape vine twisting around a post. When the Bible says God hides us under His wings (Psalm 91:4), we know that God is not a bird with feathers. God is the source of all life and our provider and protector, and these figures vividly illustrate this.

Throughout the Bible, figurative language is used to compare one thing to another so that the listeners can easily understand. In fact, the Bible tells us that Jesus regularly used parables to figuratively describe one thing as something else (Matthew 13:34).Jesus Himself stated, “These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs” (John 16:25). The Bible should always be interpreted literally unless the context demands a symbolic explanation. So what does the context of John’s Gospel and the other Gospels demand?

John Chapter 6: The Bread of Heaven

If we read the entire sixth chapter of John’s Gospel, we not only get the context, but also some startling insights into what Jesus meant when He said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. John 6 begins with the account of Jesus feeding five thousand, followed by the account of Jesus walking on water. On the following day, people were seeking Jesus for the wrong reasons, which we understand from Jesus’ words in verses 26 and 27:

     Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life.

 These verses begin to frame the context of the verses that follow, specifically, that Jesus emphasized the need for them to seek eternal life. Jesus goes on to explain to them how to obtain eternal life. And in verse 28, when the people ask Jesus, “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” Jesus replies, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent” (vs. 29).

Here Jesus specifies only one work that pleases God, namely, belief in Jesus. Jesus reemphasizes this in verse 35 when he states: “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”Notice the imperative is to “cometh to me” and “believeth on me.” Jesus repeats the thrust of His message in verse 40 where He states:

     And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus could not be clearer—by coming to Him and trusting in Him, we will receive eternal life. At this point in the narrative, the Jews complained about Him because He said: “I am the bread which came down from heaven” (vs. 41). Jesus responds to their murmuring when He states that He is indeed the “living bread” and that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood to obtain eternal life (vs. 42-58). However, let’s remember the context of this statement. First, Jesus contrasts Himself with the manna that rained down on their fathers and sustained them for their journey. But their fathers have since died. But Jesus now offers Himself as the living, heavenly bread, causing those who eat of Him to live forever.

Jesus is not the perishable manna that their descendants ate in the wilderness—He is the eternal bread of life that lives forever. Only by partaking in His everlasting life can we hope to live with Him forever. This contrast strengthens His main message, where Jesus says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (vs. 47). Notice, Jesus said that as soon as we believe in Him we have—present tense—eternal life. It is not something we aim at or hope we might attain in the future, but rather, something we receive immediately upon accepting Him by faith.

When Jesus said these words, He was in the synagogue in Capernaum, and He had neither bread nor wine. Therefore Jesus was either commanding cannibalism, or He was speaking figuratively. If He was speaking literally, then He would be directly contradicting God the Father: “But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat”(Genesis 9:4). Therefore, because Jesus Himself said, “[T]he scripture cannot be broken”(John 10:35), He must be speaking metaphorically. And that is exactly how He explains His own words in the subsequent verses.

The Flesh Profits Nothing

After this, in verse 60 (of John 6), we find that many of His disciples said: “This is an hard saying; who can hear it?” Jesus was aware of their complaints and He responded saying:

    Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. (vs. 61-64)

Wait a minute, the flesh profits nothing! I thought Jesus said we must eat His flesh? Yet, if the flesh profits nothing, Jesus must be speaking in spiritual terms. And that is what He says: “[T]he words that I speak unto you, they are spirit.”

Jesus uses the exact same Greek word for flesh (sarx) as He did in the preceding verses. Therefore, He is emphatically stating that eating His literal flesh profits nothing! If the Lord Himself sets the context of the dialogue, we would do well to hear Him. He said that the words He speaks are spirit and that the flesh profits nothing. In other words, Jesus has just told us He has spoken in a metaphor, so we need not guess at it.

If that isn’t clear enough, Peter’s words add further clarity. Immediately following the dialogue with the Jews, in which some disciples left, Jesus said to the remaining twelve apostles, “Will ye also go away? ” (vs. 67). Peter’s response is profound:

     Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. (vs. 68-69)

Amazing! Peter did not say we have come to believe that we must eat Your flesh to live. He said that we know You are the Christ, and we have come to believe in You as the Christ.

This is the confession of faith that leads to eternal life, not eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood. It also agrees with the totality of Scripture.

     That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9)

     [W]hat must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. (Acts 16:30, 31)

    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. (John 3:36)"

-Roger Oakland

 

 

[OldSchool2]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

....

Practically all of the cults and heathen and other pagan practitioners are permitted to post.  They are all known and 'exposed' already,  but not stopped from posting.

No as "unbelievers" are not permitted to post on most Worthy forums and they certainly can't attain Royal membership no matter how many times they post on the restricted forums.

[OldSchool2]

3 minutes ago, B3L13v3R said:

Mark 4:23  If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Emphasis mine:

"...This is My Body

To what exactly did Jesus ordain during the Last Supper? The Bible states:

     [Jesus] took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luke 22: 19-20)...

"... Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. (John 6:54-5).

New American Standard Bible
"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

King James Bible
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink.

International Standard Version
because my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink.

NET Bible
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

New Heart English Bible
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For my body truly is food, and my blood truly is drink.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

New American Standard 1977
“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

King James 2000 Bible
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

American King James Version
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

American Standard Version
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.

Darby Bible Translation
for my flesh is truly food and my blood is truly drink.

English Revised Version
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Webster's Bible Translation
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Weymouth New Testament
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

World English Bible
For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Young's Literal Translation
for my flesh truly is food, and my blood truly is drink;

[OldSchool2]

37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, and that is why I am saved in the here and now.  And I don't take communion to stay saved....

And neither do I; I take communion because Jesus said that unless I eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood I will have no life in me (John 6:53).