Discontinuity of the flood boundary

[dprprb]

6 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

The genealogies were not given by God for the intention of dating the earth. 
It is wrong to use them that way. End of story.  

Scripture states that the hills are ancient. 

And Im saying that your position is included in a P shaped timeline hypothesis-. Specifically  I also mean no hills or any geography from PreFlood exists if you accept that God said destroy them and the earth. Accordingly then no one should use Mt Everest as a measure for the depth of the flood. 

[SkyWriting]

2 hours ago, dprprb said:

And Im saying that your position is included in a P shaped timeline hypothesis-. Specifically  I also mean no hills or any geography from PreFlood exists if you accept that God said destroy them and the earth. Accordingly then no one should use Mt Everest as a measure for the depth of the flood. 

I have held that Flood waters are not measured by post flood mountain heights.

The earth may have been reshaped or unaffected by the Great Flood. It wasn't
a "natural flood" so the effects are not predictable.

Edited November 12, 2017 by SkyWriting

[SkyWriting]

8 hours ago, dprprb said:

I was thinking about paradoxes today in that how quickly we generate that type of situation in our minds. If I say God caused the first thing and created everything then "God created and allows evil to exist" is paradoxical. It is not a true statement because God didnt choose evil.

God did allow evil becasue it is a consequence for not having love slaves,
in that for the kind of Love that God desires, one must have the option to
reject or embrace it.  To have that option, existence without God must exist. 

[dprprb]

7 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Then you'll love this:

Isaiah 45:5-7 (KJV)
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word of God is filled with paradox: you must be weak to become strong, you must die to live, you must surrender to win...

On a side note, in looking for the truth, there will usually be a counterfeit to choose. The word doubt in Greek means to be torn between two opinions. When Jesus stood before the crowd and they cried out to keep Barabbas, they were choosing "son of the father" which is what Bar-Abbas means, instead of the Son of the Father who is Jesus. Which makes us come full circle regarding the truth. The two camps are: literal reading of the word of God vs. metaphorical/allegorical reading of the word of God. The only time-lapse images we have since the beginning is the word of God. We must go back to the originals to gain the level of understanding we need to the questions we have. Hidden gems are lost in translation like the meaning of Barabbas.

Yep I love it. You were right! That is exactly what I was thinking in terms of the fallen world because eating the fruit causes the original sin -good and evil- paradoxial state that Christ has to fix.

[SkyWriting]

On 11/8/2017 at 11:43 PM, dprprb said:

There is temporal structure in the OT that prevents a rational relationship to be developed between the recording that Creation has in it (radioactive decay, geological stratification, long times ) with Scripture. Scripture does not lie as given to us by God and Creation cannot lie.

OK

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains 

and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;

 

 

Psalm 76:4 You are radiant with light, more majestic than ...

... Thou enlightenest wonderfully from the everlasting hills.

 

 

[dprprb]

3 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

OK

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains 

and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;

 

 

Psalm 76:4 You are radiant with light, more majestic than ...

... Thou enlightenest wonderfully from the everlasting hills.

 

 

Yes both are quotes after the Flood thus fitting into the reboot of Creation I hypothesized- temporally speaking.  You are pointing to potential literal paradoxical information that , lacking other cross exam, would  force me to the conclusions I made(as the only structural result possible)...especially when coupled with the underlying belief that Creation is true because it is an Act of God -also forcing an internal narrative to be reconsidered. What Dprprb dreams up to say is meaningless because it is Acts of God that are the thing that infuses meaning into what we read.  If that is my only take away from this endeavor them Amen. Hopefully though, I can highlight these paths that He has taken for others, to save of course, in love.

With respect to time and temporal constructs Im being heavily influenced at the present time by David Deutsch's "The Fabric of Reality" - I wouldnt very often recommend lay literature to anyone because authors typically allow themselves liberties and 'dramatizations' when addressing the hobby level fans. Such extrapolations and wishful talk is completely absent from their professional publications and it is actually misleading. BUT Dr. Deutsch does a very good job of stating what it is and what it is not- thus eliminating the crackpots from his wake.

[Bonky]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:03 AM, SkyWriting said:

I have held that Flood waters are not measured by post flood mountain heights.

The earth may have been reshaped or unaffected by the Great Flood. It wasn't
a "natural flood" so the effects are not predictable.

It wasn't magic water, it was merely "sprung" by supernatural means [allegedly].    

[simplejeff]

44 minutes ago, Bonky said:

It wasn't magic water

< shrugs > REALLY ?!  Can you prove it wasn't magic water ?

[one.opinion]

On 11/12/2017 at 2:03 AM, SkyWriting said:

I have held that Flood waters are not measured by post flood mountain heights.

The earth may have been reshaped or unaffected by the Great Flood. It wasn't
a "natural flood" so the effects are not predictable.

 

1 hour ago, Bonky said:

It wasn't magic water, it was merely "sprung" by supernatural means [allegedly]. 

I don't think the point was the properties of the water itself, but the effect THAT MUCH water would have on geography.

52 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

< shrugs > REALLY ?!  Can you prove it wasn't magic water ?

I don't understand what you are asking about here. Are you arguing that the water did have some magical properties?

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 12:12 PM, dprprb said:

Hmmm ok maybe:

Anyone who adopts an OEC type theology or accepts (pseudo)scientific evidence of long times must engage in some kind of temporal joinery to the YEC Scriptural standard. Most use a hot doggin’ technique in that YEC Scripture spacetime =1 hotdog and they chop it up to insert the other lengths in between to achieve some final product length. It is messy and ‘bad handling’ because both YEC and OEC spacetimes contain mile markers. But they (including me ) generally glom it on one end or try to formulaic divide it into equal parts here +there...The worst technique is to regrind everything and cast it into new skins and step back and say “Well it’s in there!” without specifically counting the markers out in a sensible way and the YEC community rightfully shakes it head at that type of joinery technique.

Wye spacetime joinery is a whole separate category because people have ‘hot dogs fit in hotbuns’ mentality (truth mechanism and measuring schemes) and generally aren’t prepared for information paradoxes at the convergences. If we bring together two hotdogs it automatically doubles in size (inflation) jumbo dog but if the spacetime size remains the same then information has to superimpose and it is easy enough to invoke quantum mechanical ideas here to the narrative.  Holding to those same ideas in retrospective analysis however is an ugly mess. Lets say Wye- L the left path  is YEC history as written  and Wye-R is right hand path OEC of 13.7 bya as recorded or extrapolated recording. For our sake the cross-sectional area is always equal along any path spacetime you chose to be looking at. Between Scriptural truth and Creation (pseudo)‘data’  a P shaped spacetime (graph of the letter P with time as the vertical axis) best resolves the observables and extrapolated ‘knowledge’ with the Scriptural account. Anyone in YEC position can always just say ‘Hey forget all that blubbering!’ because the Scriptural path remains (is given) despite the fact that the physical path no longer exists (to Eden I mean physically seeing the flaming sword) Now, there should be paradoxical statements in Scripture at the pivotal moments to indicate that something like this is happening.  They would be paradoxical to things said in Scripture elsewhere. I think they have been commonly pointed out already that: Cain and Seth would only have sisters to marry (strong case) and God ‘remembers’ Noah during the Flood (weak case). “Remembers” can be just a segway. But the lack of non-sisters could be a problem given a law against it later. Neither is very convincing but there nonetheless.

So what about the chiastic structure of the narrative? Does that help?

1.God rests after Creation days:: God takes away time from man’s years just prior to the Flood.

2.God creates ‘mankind’(hypothetical reading) :: God destroys all of mankind (literally reading),

2a. God specifically creates Adam as a representative:: God specifically saves Noah as a representative.

3.God makes the land creatures and the earth:: God unmakes the land creatures and the earth

4.God has to re-create earth for saved Noah to have something to land on and is in “Creation” mode

5. God fills the earth with life just as in the days of Creation. “And it was so.”

The chiastic structure supports a Re-Creation conjecture. Informational structures inside it contain nonsensical paradoxes when the spacetime doesnt automatically double in size.

 An Act of God explains it including the Big Bang expansion as ‘recoupling’ (hot dog +hot dog=  doublehotdog instantaneously)  of the divine spacetime path from The Flood to Gen 1:1. No one has really argued that the YEC and OEC beginnings are not similar.

Therefore an inflaton is ‘unphysical’. God is real.

A temporal miracle here a the Flood is consistent with my posts about naturalization.

By using a term like pseudo-science or (pseudo)scientific evidence you already show your bias which makes you unqualified to lead this discussion.  Nothing can be learned from your analysis.