Lucifers creation and rebellion.

[simplejeff]

Let the reader differentiate Scripture from fable - myths that were made up by the enemy of Christ to distract from the Truth, to keep people from finding the Kingdom of God in Christ Jesus,  to keep people even from being saved.

 

[hmbld]

18 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Let the reader differentiate Scripture from fable - myths that were made up by the enemy of Christ to distract from the Truth, to keep people from finding the Kingdom of God in Christ Jesus,  to keep people even from being saved.

 

Agreed

[Dennis1209]

On 11/17/2017 at 8:38 PM, HAZARD said:

If what I posted is made up, you should be able to prove your accusation with a Scripture or two please?

Have you ever read, "Earth's Earliest Ages" by G. H. Pember?

[Dennis1209]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:36 AM, Justin Adams said:

HAZARD:

I see you are wrong here. I am concerned with those that know little of the scriptures - that they might be led astray.

I think that you would be well advised to do some real study and not listen to others' second-hand ideas, opinions and weird science/doctrines.

IN THE BEGINNING GOD.  and as ENOOB57 said:

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Hi ya Justin!

I like to approach a controversy or disagreement from looking at both sides of an issue, then comparing it to the Word of God, then trying to determine which view might be most correct. This was one of the issues I was trying to decide on in my mind. I'm not going to try and convince you one way or the other. It's not a Salvation issue, but a hermeneutic and exegesis interpretation of scripture.

There's been fine Christian scholars and expositor's on both sides of young Earth vs. old Earth. Have you studied in detail the scriptures and compared them to the views of such scholars as G. H. Pember for comparison? I've tried to study this without a preconceived notion. Of course I could be wrong in my interpretations, but I've found the preponderance of the evidence in my mind, points to the old Earth theory. But I'm by no means dogmatic about it. Either way, the Lord spoke everything into existence, and many just can't be 100% sure when that took place. 

[hmbld]

10 hours ago, Royff said:

 

Proof that there was sin in the earth before Adam; Many Christian claims that it is through Adam that sin entered the world; this is just another miss-reading of scripture. Sin entered this world even before Adam was created; the creation of Adam seems to be the 

   

It all really is a nice story, but it would fit in Aesop’s Fables pretty well, for scripture does not agree with this story. 

Sin and death entered through Adam’s sin. Scripture states all was made in seven days, and it was perfect. 

[HAZARD]

Da Puppers wrote;

"

No one,  especially the vast majority of professing Christendom,  knows anything about a Luciferian flood,  a pre-Adamite flood,  because its not found in the word of God."

Sorry, it is clearly and plainly written in the Word of God that there were two great floods.

       REBELLION AND OVERTHROW OF THE FIRST
                        SOCIAL SYSTEM

     (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; Ezek 28:11-17;
                         2 Pet 3:5-6)
    
       
                           Part Two


IV. ISAIAH'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD


In Isa. 14:12-14 we have conclusive proof that Lucifer ruled the
Earth before the days of Adam. It could not have been since Adam
that he ruled and fell from Heaven as in this passage, for he was
already a fallen creature before Adam was created.
In Adam's day he regained dominion of the Earth and has been the
prince of this world ever since. In this passage both Satan and
the king of Babylon are in view. This is what is known as the law
of double reference, that is, a visible person is immediately
addressed while at the same time an invisible person who is using
the visible person as a tool to hinder the plan of God is also
addressed. For example, when Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee
behind me, Satan: for thou art an offense to me: for thou
sayest not the things that be of God, but those that be of
men" (Matt.16:23), He did not mean that Peter was the personal
devil, but that he was being used as a tool of Satan to keep
Christ from getting to the cross.
Hence, both Peter and Satan are addressed and involved in the
statement. To understand such passages, one should understand
that part of the passage that can refer to an earthly person as
referring to a man, and that part that cannot possibly refer to
an earthly person as referring to the invisible person also
addressed.

In Isa.14:12-14 we have some statements which cannot possibly be
made of an earthly king of Babylon. The passage is universally
accepted as referring to the fall of Satan. We shall quote it and
then note the facts:

     "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the
     morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst
     weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I
     WILL ascend into heaven, I WILL exalt my throne above the
     stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the
     congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above
     the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.
2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly
man.
3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man.
Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as
falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).
4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.
5. That he had weakened nations on Earth.
6. That he was exalted in his heart.
7. That he invaded Heaven, where God rules.
8. That he was a king, for he had a throne and subjects over whom
he ruled.
9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars,
and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.
10. That he wanted to be worshipped in the congregation (Ps.72:1;
82:1; Isa. 6:1).
11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.
12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried
to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a
kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth,
for one can stand on certain parts of the Earth and still be
above clouds.
13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already
created.
14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position
of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that
time. He had no kingdom on Earth at the time of Adam and has not
had since in the sense of a visible, personal rule on Earth. He
has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must
refer to a time before Adam.
15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could
not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars,
or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He
was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend
above them.
16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the
universe (Ps. 75:6-7).

Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original
kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and
his fall was before Adam. In Col.1:15-18 we read of Christ
creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven
and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on
the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved
by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly
creatures of various kinds which were all destroyed when the
flood of Gen.1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be
inhabited by earthly creatures (Is.45:18). They are called
"nations" in the above passage....
Thus Isaiah teaches that the Earth was inhabited before Adam and
was ruled by Lucifer, whose kingdom was overthrown when he
rebelled.

V. EZEKIEL'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD

In Ezek.28:11-17 we have another description of Lucifer before
he fell and of his position on Earth and the cause of his
rebellion. This passage is another example of the law of double
reference, as explained in Point IV above. The earthly man
addressed was the king of Tyre. (See Josephus, Apion Book 1, 21).
Let us also quote this passage and then note the main facts
concerning Satan.

     "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of
     wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the
     garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering ....
     the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared
     in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the
     anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou
     wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou has walked up and
     down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in
     thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity
     was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they
     have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast
     sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the
     mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
     from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted
     up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by
     reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I
     will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
     Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
     iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will
     I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour
     thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the
     sight of them that behold thee" (Ezek.28:11-19).

Note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That he was full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
2. That he had been in Eden, THE GARDEN OF GOD, not a mere summer
residence of some earthly king of Tyre, but the garden of God as
referred to in other passages (Isa.51:3; Ezek.31:9,16,18;
36:35; Joel 2:3). This Eden, however, was the one that was on
the original Earth before Adam, for "every precious stone" was
not the covering of Satan, nor was he perfect and sinless and the
ruling cherub when he was in Adam's Eden. It was the garden that
God made as the location of Lucifer's kingdom as pictured in this
whole passage.
3. That he was the ruler of this Eden, for at that time "every
precious stone was thy covering . . . . Thou art the anointed
cherub that covereth [protecteth]; and I have set thee so . . .
Thou wast perfect in thy ways." This must refer to the time
Lucifer fell, and that had to be before Adam and the Eden that
man was given dominion over.
4. That he was a created being; so it could only refer to Satan.
5. That he was the anointed cherub (angel) that protected or
ruled the Earth.
6. That God had placed him in this position.
7. That every precious stone was his covering.
8. That his position was upon the holy mountain of God and that
he walked up and down in the midst of precious stones of fire.
9. That he was perfect in his ways from his creation until he
exalted himself, as in this passage and in Isa.14:12-14; 1 Tim.
3:6.
10. That he was created a perfect, sinless angel.
11. That he became a sinner through pride (1 Tim.3:6).
12. That his beauty was the cause of his pride.
13. That sin was found in him.
14. That he became filled with violence by his "merchandise"
(Hebrew, traffic, as in verse 18, that is, going about as a
slanderer in a moral sense. He began to accuse God and get others
to rebel with him).
15. That he was cast out of the mountain of God in the garden
where he had his throne and was driven out of his position and
glory.
16. That his wisdom was corrupted.
17. That he was cast down to the ground, as in Isa.14:12-14;
Luke 10:18. This will also be done in the future tribulation when
he will be on Earth .... and then will be put in the abyss at the
second coming of Christ (Rev. 12:3-14; 19:11-20:3). In the Hebrew
such statements as "I will cast thee as profane" and "I will cast
thee to the ground" are literally, "I profaned thee" and "I did
cast thee to the ground." They must be understood in the past
tense to harmonize with the rest of the passage, thus proving
that this could not be the then - reigning king of Tyre. It could
only refer to Lucifer, as in Isa.14:12-14; Luke 10:18. If this be
true, then there were "kings" (probably spirit angel kings or
governors over certain functions on the earth at the time of
Lucifer's rebellion - Keith Hunt) on the Earth that beheld him
when he landed on the ground and before God totally destroyed
everything by the flood of Gen.1:2
18. That he had sanctuaries (a sanctuary, according to many
ancient manuscripts), which he defiled by his iniquities and
slander. This suggests a long and bitter feud between God and
Satan before God took action to remove him from his position and
curse the Earth. Satan was bitter in his slander of God and no
doubt accused God of being tyrannical and unjust in all His rule
over ... agents. He no doubt accused God of all the things that
he still accuses Him of ... God was longsuffering; but when the
final invasion of Heaven took place, God quickly put down the
rebellion.
19. That Lucifer was brought down to utter defeat and humiliation
to the Earth. The fire devouring Satan and bringing him to ashes
on the Earth is a figurative statement of absolute defeat and
humiliation. The same figure of speech is used of Abraham and
other living persons who did not become literal ashes
(Gen.18:27; Job 13:12; 30:19; Ps.102:9; Isa.44:20; 61:3). When
we know that the passage is talking of a spirit being that cannot
be burned to ashes, then we have another reason why we must
conclude that the language is figurative of humiliation, the
chief principle of true Bible interpretation is: TAKE THE BIBLE
LITERALLY WHEREIN IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE. WHEN THE LANGUAGE CANNOT
BE TAKEN LITERALLY, THEN WE KNOW IT IS FIGURATIVE. Since we know
that the language cannot be literally true of a spirit being,
then it must taken in a figurative sense. If the language is
literal, then this part of the double reference refers to the
king of Tyre who is the visible person addressed.

The other statements above could be used only of an angel, for no
king of Tyre ever was a cherub, a created being; and not one of
them ever was in Eden, as stated of this created being in Ezekiel
28:11-17. No such king ever was a "cherub that covereth." The
Hebrew word for covereth is 'sakak,' meaning to entwine, fence
in, protect, defend, or hedge in, thus showing that Lucifer had a
responsibility in protecting and ruling over the Eden and
mountain of God in this passage. The Hebrew phrase 'har ha'
Elohim' occurs seven times in Scripture and always of a literal
earthly mountain, thus proving Lucifer's rule for God was on
Earth and on a mountain that God had established as the capital
of the Earth when He gave Lucifer dominion to rule for God
(Ex.3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8; Ps.69:15; Ezek.28:16).
See also passages where 'par Jehovah,' the mount of the Lord, is
found, which also is used seven times of an earthly mountain
(Gen.22:14; Num.10:33; Ps.24:3; Isa.2:3; 30:29; Micah 4:2; Zech.
8:3).
20. That these facts could refer only to Satan before the days of
Adam, for he did not have this position when Adam was created,
nor could these facts be true of him on the Earth since he
regained dominion of the Earth through Adam. Ezekiel, therefore,
teaches that Lucifer had a kingdom on Earth ....

[HAZARD]

There were two great floods on the Earth, 1. we shall call Lucifers flood brought upon the Earth because of lucifers rebellion, and 2. Noahs flood caused by the rebellion of man. Many Scriptures show there was a great difference between them, all we need do is read every one and believe what we read.

 

The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

Rev. 4:11).

In Scripture, all instances of obscuring the sun and bringing darkness are the result of judgment, not creation-which is also true of the two universal floods (Genesis 6:8-8:22; Exodus 10:21-23; Isaiah 5:30; Jeremiah 4:23-26).

All predictions of future darkness depict judgment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 6:12-17; Rev. 8:12; Rev. 9:2; Rev. 16:10; Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:30-3:16; Amos 5:18-20).

Could we say that Genesis 1:2 is the only place in Scripture where darkness and a universal flood are not an act of judgment? If it isn't an option, then Genesis 1:2 proves that there was a pre-Adamite world destroyed by darkness and flood.

No one questions that Noah's flood was an act of judgment, or doubts the existence of free moral agents before the flood actually came. Why then doubt the existence of a pre-Adamite world which was destroyed by the darkness and flood of Genesis 1:2?

[enoob57]

All this is non-Scriptural a veritable garbage in garbage outpost  

[HAZARD]

22 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

All this is non-Scriptural a veritable garbage in garbage outpost  

And you read and checked EVERY VERETABLE GARBAGE SCRIPTURE and responded in less that an hour? All I can say is Wow?

I would not dare call God's Word VERETABLE GARBAGE under any circumstances.

[hmbld]

25 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

And you read and checked EVERY VERETABLE GARBAGE SCRIPTURE and responded in less that an hour? All I can say is Wow?

I would not dare call God's Word VERETABLE GARBAGE under any circumstances.

You post the same argument over and over, so constant checking and rechecking your long lists of verses don’t have to happen in less than an hour. They have been checked by many over the years you continue to post them, and they are found to be false interpretations every time. It’s not God’s Word that is called such.