Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

[Daniel 11:36]

"In effect you are saying that anyone who was counted as righteous by God before the church was established is not part of the church. I'm pretty sure Moses, Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Issac and a host of others would disagree."

 

No I am not .... all  believers will be made immortal just before the coming tribulation period of both OT and NT

Then the tribulation period [the 70th week decreed for Israel] will begin

Any who become believers during this period of both Israel and the Gentiles will be counted .... those killed during the period will be resurrected to enter the Lord's millennial kingdom as immortals .... those still alive will enter and populate the millennial kingdom as mortals

.... and so will the believers of the OT and NT who were made immortal just before [Revelation 3:10] 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Frank H. White.

Paul either possessed or had access to a copy of the Gospel by Matthew; and that when he wrote, "This we say unto you by the word of the Lord", etc., 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, he meant, "the word of the Lord" as contained in Matthew 24:29-31. One has only to compare Paul's words to the Corinthians on the subject of the Lord's Supper, 1 Corinthians 11:23-25, with the Lord's own words about it, Matthew 26:26-28, to see that the Apostle could easily have obtained his information concerning the Lord's Supper from his copy of Matthew's Gospel, which contains this "word of the Lord" also. Paul's personal acquaintance with "the twelve" would furnish him the few extra details contained in his account which are not recorded by Matthew.  Or a man as intelligent as Paul was, and as well acquainted with the Jewish feasts, including the Passover, which so graphically typifies the death of "The Lamb of God" for the sins and life of the world, could easily have deduced those extra trifling details from Matthew's record of the last supper.  Thus Paul could just as well say in this case, "I have received of the Lord", etc., as in the other case, "This we say unto you by the word of the Lord", etc., for in each case, what he mentioned was contained in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ as found in Matthew's Gospel.  If the Lord had first given Matthew's Gospel, in which the Lord's Supper is included, to the disciples as Jews--i.e., as representing not the Church but the Jewish Remnant of the Tribulation--and then had revealed that supper to Paul as "Church Truth", He would have been bestowing upon the Church, apparently as an afterthought, something which He had stolen from the Jewish Remnant; whose possession it was once it was given to them.  I say "stolen from the Jewish Remnant" because by making the Lord's Supper "Church Truth", that is to say, a Christian ordinance, necessarily the Jewish Remnant was deprived of it; for, as I explain and stress in other parts of these volumes, there is absolutely no evidence that the Jewish Remnant will become believers in the Lord Jesus Christ until He shall have revealed Himself to their nation as such at the end of the Tribulation: and so a Christian ordinance could not be made use of by them during the Tribulation, since, at the best, until the Lord shall return, they will be only a company of pious not Christian Jews.  Although only extreme Pre-Tribulation Rapturists hold this absurd idea, yet it is a result of that doctrine, and so the tree must be adjudged evil because it bears such evil fruit.  The only purpose in endeavoring to make all or the greater part of Matthew 24 "Jewish Remnant Teaching" is TO GET RID OF VERSES 29 TO 31, BECAUSE IF ACCEPTED AS "CHURCH TRUTH" THESE THREE VERSES WOULD INSTANTLY CONTRADICT.

Let us keep in mind that this is our Lord's answer to the questions about His coming, the full-end of the age, and the destruction of Jerusalem, which in their (the disciples') minds was connected with His coming.
The Olivet Talk, in Matthew's account of it, may be easily grouped under three general headings, after the introductory bit out of which it all grew.
The first of these may be called the tribulation group of paragraphs.  It runs from verses four to forty-four of chapter twenty-four.  In it our Lord speaks of a time of great distress or tribulation coming to the whole earth.  This is the uppermost thought through the whole section.  This is apt to come as a distinct surprise to one who is listening for something about His coming again.  Yet this is the first thing He speaks of in answering the questions about when He will come.
There are five distinct paragraphs in this tribulation section.
The first paragraph runs through verses four to eight.  It cautions against evil men coming under the pretence of being Christ, and gives the general characteristics of the tribulation in its beginnings as wars, rumors of wars, famines, and earthquakes.
The second paragraph runs through verses nine to fourteen inclusive.  It tells of great tribulation coming to the Lord's followers.  It helps here to remember who these disciples are representatively,--not the Jewish nation but the Church.  The Church will suffer during this awful time of persecution, and some will be killed.  As a result of the terrible persecution there will be a great testing and sifting.  Many will "stumble", that is, give up their faith; false religious teachers will add to the confusion; and the love of many true Christians will grow cold.  These are the general characteristics of the time for the Christian people.  Then our Lord gives a clue to determining when the end of all will come,--it will not be until the Gospel of the Kingdom has been preached in all the world as a testimony unto all nations.
The third paragraph runs through verses fifteen to twenty-eight.  The gives the opening event of this tribulation time, by which its beginning may be surely recognized.  Jesus makes a quotation from Daniel, referring to something or someone called "the abomination of desolation"; when this is seen standing in the holy place of the temple in Jerusalem, that will indicate the beginning of this great tribulation.  And our Lord significantly adds "let him that reads understand".  This event will be followed by a time of awful happenings.  The tribulation will be such as has never been known, and never will be again.  It will be a time of such terrible experience for Christ's own followers that for their sake's it is mercifully shortened....
The fourth paragraph is a brief one but brings us to the central event we are thinking of.  It runs through verses twenty-nine to thirty-one, and fixes the closing event of the tribulation time.  There will be disturbances in the heavenly bodies, the sun, moon, and stars, and "the powers of the heavens (i.e., powers of physical attraction and cohesion) shall be shaken".  Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  His appearance will cause mourning among all the tribes of the earth.  The word translated "mourning" has in it the thought of grief.  And that suggests a sorrow and penitence among men when they see and recognize the Lord Jesus in His glory.  Then he sends His angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and the redeemed will be caught up into His presence from every corner of the earth.

That's a good word.  Hopefully, people can hear it.

[Daniel 11:36]

"Then he sends His angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and the redeemed will be caught up into His presence from every corner of the earth."

 

This action will come just after the days of the tribulation period and those collected will be the mortals who survived

The Lord will gather all upon the earth and those of Israel and the Gentiles will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth .... as mortals

 

[Quasar93]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Really? That's rich coming from one who ignores context. What about this context?

Galatians 3

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Whoa! Bet that slams into the wall of cognitive dissonance. You want there to be a difference between Jew and Gentile to protect your island. 

"And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed"

What? I though the Jews were the seed of Abraham? Does this mean believers are the seed of Abraham? Oh no!

Reference is made to your remark of "running with the wolves," pertaining to the
Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, you infer, are all liars.  Your reference to Gal. pertains to both Jews and Gentiles who are believers in Christ, both of whom are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, His Church, recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13.  They are not baptized into Israel, nor is the Church Israel.  There isn't Scripture in the Bible that teaches such a thing.  The present status remains: the Church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles alike, are believers.  Israel is  nation of non-believers, who will not accept Jesus as their Messiah, until His second coming, in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-, when they finally accept the terms of the New Covenant, for themselves, the Church has been accepting since Jesus ratified it in Lk.22:20..  The Church is not Israel, and never will be. 

 

Please provide me with a Scriptural argument to prove my post on the Biblical teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church is false in any part, or your views are those that are in error.

 

Quasar93

[Justin Adams]

White further said:

In the use of wrested Scripture with which these respective doctrines are supported, there is also a strong resemblance between Christian Science and Pre-Tribulation Rapturism; and as Christian Science, with its practical denial of the need of the Atonement, jeopardizes the salvation of its adherents, so likewise, later, when the adherents of Pre-Tribulation-Rapturism shall find themselves plunged unprepared, and perhaps despairing, into the Tribulation, the possibility will be great that many of them will be included with those of whom Jesus said, "Because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold." Matt. 24:12.

Pre-Tribulation-Rapturism has its root in the fear of man, for it is planted in the ground of man's natural desire to avoid the painful.
Tertullian maintained: "Whatever is first is true; whatever is last is adulterate."
Faber says: "If a doctrine totally unknown to the primitive Church, which received her theology immediately from the hands of the disciples of the apostles, springs up in a subsequent age, such doctrine stands on its very front with the brand of human invention."
These statements have been used by Pre-Tribulation-Rapturists against Post Millennialism.  They are equally true when used by us against Pre-Tribulation Rapturism; for this doctrine, like Post-Millennialism, is "new", decidedly "new", being only a century old, and it was "totally unknown to the primitive Church"

Edited December 2, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Quasar93]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Did you know Abraham was born again and holy long before there was an Israel? And Noah. And Elijah, Enoch, etc. So there is a more fundamental truth to righteousness and salvation than Jewry. Not that you'll understand that.

FYI, no one during OT times was saved and went to heaven, because it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take way sins, recorded in Heb.10:4.  See Rom.3:25-26 also  For a perfect profile of OT, review Lk.16:19-25.  God attributed righteousness to Abraham and the other OT Patriarchs, not salvation.  There is no way that could possibly take pace, until after Jesus shed His blood and died on a cross, to save us from our sins.  The two exceptions to that consist of Enoch and Elijah, only.

 

Quasar93  

[Quasar93]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

This appears to willing ignorance of Christ's full import in the fulfillment of the law and the salvation of mankind. You need to read all of the bible for a more complete understanding. The servants of Jesus told us we have been grafted into the family. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile anymore. All the blessings, rewards, consequences and punishments are shared by all who are called by his name.

You are raising the church to a position which is not scriptural: an elite, privileged group. Sad. 

FYI, I am a 94 year old WWII Vet, with 80 years of Bible study, together with earned qualifications to teach the Bible.  Your inference as to "my ignorance of Christ's full import in the fulfillment of the law and the salvation of mankind," Is a full load of meaningless opinion.  And where, may I ask, did you earn your qualifications to teach the Bible?

 

Quasar93  

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Quasar93 said:

FYI, I am a 94 year old WWII Vet, with 80 years of Bible study, together with earned qualifications to teach the Bible.  Your inference as to "my ignorance of Christ's full import in the fulfillment of the law and the salvation of mankind," Is a full load of meaningless opinion.  And where, may I ask, did you earn your qualifications to teach the Bible?

 

Quasar93  

94 years old? That is great

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

If  all Christians present on earth at the tribulation's beginning have either been forced to take the mark of the beast , or been slaughtered for not doing so , that would make for quite an anti-climactic rapture  with plenty of empty seats available .

This is backwards thinking .

Wherever you place the rapture it should have to include the majority of Christians on earth being raptured , not a minuscule , leftover ,  smattering that somehow avoided taking 

the mark of the beast or being slaughtered for refusing .

                                                   " Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing ? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father .

                                                      But the very hairs of your head are all numbered . "    (  Matthew 10 - 29 : 30 )

The Antichrist is not present at the very beginning of the tribulation and neither is the MOB.

[Unfailing Presence]

20 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Antichrist is not present at the very beginning of the tribulation and neither is the MOB.

What event marks the beginning of tribulation & what is " MOB "   ?