Skeleton Rapture Crew

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Yes Daniel did say this, but the Lord's tribulation period will begin just after His call for is own which will last for 7 years and 30 days

Daniel also said [Daniel 9:24..27] .... 70 weeks of years are decreed and the 70th has not yet come

Study on

There is a last week yet to come, of that I'm fully convinced. But there are distinct time periods within that week as Jesus told us in Matt 24, and I am not convinced the last week should should be generalized by unwarranted terms like 'tribulation period'.

Beginning of Sorrows. First Half. 3.5 years in duration.

It's likely, my personal observation, the AC will rise first; in effect the signal the last week has begun, the first seal of Revelation. This only means the beast has been healed of the head wound and is receiving the awe and worship of the world, alongside the dragon. The beast is only fully revealed at the A of D.

This rise of the beast, healed and empowered by the dragon and receiving the worship of the world, will be the force behind the reconstruction of the temple, strengthening a covenant already in place, or so I'm convinced. 

The next idea is the calamities in the beginning of sorrows. The wars and earthly calamities are the result of the rise of the beast. The wars come about from the beast's protection of Israel while Israel reconstructs the Temple. Not all in the Mideast will be happy the Temple rises and it's assured they will fight to stop construction.

Famine, plague and pestilence occur from the wars somewhat, but mostly from the power of the two witnesses who have arrived on the scene. As the beast rises to power at the onset of the last week God will send His two witnesses to oppose the beast and warn the people about the true nature of this 'savior'; and to strike the earth with all manner of plagues.

This idea fits with Jesus' words about the beginning of sorrows, days which occur before the middle of the week.

A. of D. 3+ days.

A dramatic moment in history. The beast declares himself God of the Universe. Exerts control over every soul on earth. Kills the two witnesses. Brings statues and idols to life. And probably needs a few days to settle in after his great victory over the witnesses and to allow the people of earth to have their celebration.

Great Tribulation. Less that 3.5 years.

We all know what's going on here.

The Sign. A mere moment. 

The Sign of Jesus Coming. Pretty well covered and happening in an instant. 

The Reality of Jesus Return.

Occurring in conjunction with the Sign in a following instant.

Dispatching the Angels and the Gathering of the Elect.

This is going to take just a bit of time. Not positive how much time but occurring during the half hour silence in heaven.

Wrath of God. Maybe 6 months.

There are 7 distinct time periods within the last week. Only 1 has anything to do with 'tribulation', the period sandwiched between the A of D and the Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man. Only this time can be referred to as the 'tribulation period', not the entire 70th week. But you can certainly believe as you wish. That's our gift and burden.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Diaste

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem with a a mid trib or post trib rapture is that the Bible says that no one can know when Jesus' appearing will occur.   So, since the Tribulation begins with the AC confirming a covenant with Israel, we can mark off either 3 1/2 years for the mid trip scenario or 7 years for the post trib scenario, which violates Jesus' words that we cannot know when His appearing will be ("appearing" and 2nd coming are not the same thing).  

A pre-trib rapture scenario is the only one that prohibits us from knowing when His appearing will occur.

Not exactly.

The 'tribulation' does not begin with confirming the covenant. Where does scripture say this? Nowhere. 

When would the 'confirmation' take place? A person would have to know the exact moment. Would that be a public declaration? A secret meeting? Perhaps adding a signature to the existing document would signal the moment. Tough to ascertain.

What is often missed is that the days of tribulation are cut short. No one knows how short ergo, a post trib coming is possible.

How is it appearing and coming are not the same? When a person comes to your house for a visit they appear at your doorstep as they have come to visit you. Appearing and coming work in concert. Tell me how Jesus would appear to all the tribes of earth but has not come to earth? How does Jesus appear without being in the place of appearing?

[Guest shiloh357]

11 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Not exactly.

The 'tribulation' does not begin with confirming the covenant. Where does scripture say this? Nowhere. 

Yes it does.  Read your Bible.  Dan. 9:27.  The "one week" is the 7 year covenant which marks the beginning of the Tribulation. The covenant will be broken at the 3 1/2 mark which is the latter half of the Tribulation ,which is what the book of Revelation is primarily concerned with.

Quote

When would the 'confirmation' take place? A person would have to know the exact moment. Would that be a public declaration? A secret meeting? Perhaps adding a signature to the existing document would signal the moment. Tough to ascertain.

Yep, those of us who are born again, won't be here to see it. 

 

Quote

What is often missed is that the days of tribulation are cut short. No one knows how short ergo, a post trib coming is possible.

It is seven years (one week) long.   It would be longer if it weren't cut short.

 

Quote

How is it appearing and coming are not the same?

The 2nd coming is at the end of the book of Revelation after the destruction of mystery babylon, at slaughter of Armageddon.  

The appearance, we are told cannot be ascertained; no man knows the day or the hour.   If  Jesus were talking about the 2nd coming, that comment would not make sense.

Quote

When a person comes to your house for a visit they appear at your doorstep as they have come to visit you. Appearing and coming work in concert. Tell me how Jesus would appear to all the tribes of earth but has not come to earth? How does Jesus appear without being in the place of appearing?

His appearance will be seen by His saints when we are raptured out.  He is not returning to the earth, but calling the Church out of the earth, which is why the Church is not mentioned as going through the Tribulation in the book of Revelation.

[Last Daze]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem with a a mid trib or post trib rapture is that the Bible says that no one can know when Jesus' appearing will occur.

That's not what it says.  It says day or hour.  Very small window there.  And it never says that no one will ever know.

When you consider what all takes place in those days, changes to times and laws, the sun and moon being affected, its easy to see how measuring time can get obfuscated.  Something to think about, for those inclined to do so.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

That's not what it says.  It says day or hour.  Very small window there.  And it never says that no one will ever know.

When you consider what all takes place in those days, changes to times and laws, the sun and moon being affected, its easy to see how measuring time can get obfuscated.  Something to think about, for those inclined to do so.

It's a manner of speaking that simply means we cannot know when he will return.  It doesn't mean that we can calculate the week or the month or the year, but just not the day nor the hour.   That's taking it to a level of hyper-literal interpretation that has people telling us every year that September is going to be the month of his return.   The last few years, every September we have these prophecy teachers trying to tell us to get ready for the rapture, or some big spiritual event in September (around Rosh Hashanna).   It gets ridiculous.  

And it is because I "think"  for myself that I am not really going by into your response.

[Last Daze]

6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

And it is because I "think"  for myself that I am not really going by into your response.

Not sure what that means, but, okay.

For everyone else, it's not a matter of "calculating" when.  As I tried to explain, its a matter of losing track of time through those changes.  The man of sin changes "times"?  Does that mean a new calendar based on him?  The sun, which is what we base our day on, is altered.  That'll throw off your day count.

That's why Jesus tells us to stay vigilant, and to keep our clothes.  Maintaining an accurate day count will be impossible, probably by design.  We're not in darkness; we'll know the season, just not the specific day.  It will have become obfuscated through the events leading up to that day.

• But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  Matthew 24:13

Its a matter of perseverance, of knowing Jesus and bringing extra oil.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Not sure what that means, but, okay.

For everyone else, it's not a matter of "calculating" when.  As I tried to explain, its a matter of losing track of time through those changes.  The man of sin changes "times"?  Does that mean a new calendar based on him?  The sun, which is what we base our day on, is altered.  That'll throw off your day count.

No, because the appearing of Christ occurs before the AC is even on the scene.  The changing of times and seasons is likely relative to the Jewish calendar and the festivals related to it, not the solar calendar.

[Last Daze]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, because the appearing of Christ occurs before the AC is even on the scene.

That's pure conjecture.  Since it lacks biblical support, I doubt its true.  Christ returns once, on the day of the Lord, to gather to Himself those who are His.  Those who trust in a great escape will be sorely disappointed in that false hope.  The warnings are clear.  We are to be ready to endure to the end.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

That's pure conjecture.  Since it lacks biblical support, I doubt its true.  Christ returns once, on the day of the Lord, to gather to Himself those who are His.  Those who trust in a great escape will be sorely disappointed in that false hope.  The warnings are clear.  We are to be ready to endure to the end.

Jesus' return and his appearance are not the same thing. Jesus will appear to gather us, but his return is at the end of Tribulation and it  is destroy the armies gathered around Jerusalem in Rev. 19 and Zech. 14.

[Justin Adams]

'Remnant theology' denies Matt 24 for the church, but is incorrect. There are no 'dispensations' as theological basis for understanding eschatology. Plain reading says what it says. Plainly.