The Difference Between the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ

[Psalms37:4]

11 hours ago, Last Daze said:

No, that's not what I'm saying.  That's what you wanted to hear so you could ridicule me.  If you're really interested, I'll explain.

Look at what happens when the two witnesses are killed.

• Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.  And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.  Revelation 11:9-10

So far you're not getting this Last Daze.

Here, read Matthew 24:37-39 carefully. Jesus is telling us He will be coming for the church at a time when people on earth are doing normal daily routine activities: eating, drinking, getting married etc.

Do you see where it said "the coming of the Son of Man?"

Matthew 24:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. ³⁸ For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, ³⁹ and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now if you're trying to tell us a parallel scripture to Matthew 24:37-39 is Revelation 11:10 when people celebrate the death of the two witnesses, than show us where in the bible does it say Jesus will come on the day the two witnesses dies. 

There's numerous scriptures throughout the bible about people celebrating. People celebrate every year. What makes you think Jesus is coming whenever people celebrate? Are you following me now? 

[missmuffet]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:47 AM, Quasar93 said:

Have you ever stopped to think what the Scriptures tell us where believers go after the death of our bodies? Where are we going when our body dies?

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, IMO, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the tribulation. He will return for all of us who belong to Him, still alive here on earth, at His appearing, according to Jn.14:2-4 and 1 Thes.4:14-18. All those who have died in Him, go to be with Him in heaven, immediately after their physical death, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.  Beginning with Pentecost, they are seen returning with Him from heaven, in 1 Thes.4:14, when He returns for all of us who belong to Him, left here on earth alive at His appearing in the clouds of the sky.  Beginning with Jn.14:2-4 and 28, He returns to take us with Him, back to our Father in heaven.  As recorded in 1 Thes.4:17, when we will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them [all those who previously died in Him] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

"In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me, that you also may be where I am." Vs.3."And you know the way to where I am going."  Jn.14:2-4.

And where did Jesus tell them He was going? "You heards me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me , you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." Vs 28. Confirmed in Jn.16:10, 17 and 28.

The important fact in the above to keep in mind is, that it cannot possibly take place when Jesus returns in His Second Coming to the earth. Because, in the above passage, He returns for all those who belong to Him, bringing with Him all those who had fallen asleep [Died] in Him from heaven, AND RETURNS WITH THEM ALL TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN!

The above passage is reinforced by Paul, in 1 Thes.4:14-18, alluding to, "will be CAUGHT UP/RAPTURED together with them [The dead in Christ] to meet the Lord in the clouds of the air, in vs 17." Vs 14 refers to God bringing with Jesus, all those who previously died in Him, and are with Him in the clouds of the air, when all of us who belong to Christ, left here on the earth alive at His appearing, meet Him, together with them, in the clouds of the air. Where in vs 15, Paul reveals the entire event is ACCORDING TO THE LORD'S OWN WORD, which is directly from Jn.14:2-4 and 28. The only place in the Scriptures Jesus taught the believers in Him then, what we refer to today as the rapture of the Church.

How does the above teaching of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Paul and John, differ from His Second Coming to the earth? Jesus returns in His second coming to the earth, with His entire Church, [After the marriage to His Bride, the Church, in heaven, in Rev.19:7-9] [as well as in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14 and Rev.19:14], in His armies from heaven, as well as His angels, recorded in Mt.24:30-31. He will return to fight the battle of Armageddon first, to defeat the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them, in Rev.19:11-20. He does not gather anyone to Himself in the clouds of the sky in His second coming, as He will in the rapture, nor does He return to heaven with them, as He will at the rapture of the Church! But rather, to save the remnant of Israel, in Zech.12:10 and  Zech.14. Then Satan will be thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:1-3, then to administer the first resurrection, in Rev.20:4 and 6, bringing peace to the entire earth.  He will then establish His 1,000 year reign on the earth.  NOTICE that Jesus DOES NOT return to heaven at any time after He sets foot on the Mount of Olives [Zech.14:5] in His Second Coming, until God has created the new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1, as seen in verses 22-23.Jesus testimony about His Second Coming to the earth, in Mt.24:30-31:"

At that time, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. [At the end of the seven years of tribulation]. [Confirming Zech.12:10-13]  Israel in particular, because they will then recognize Jesus as their Messiah FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.  While the rest of the world will finally realize Jesus is who He said He was, the Son of God. You will not see any mourning when Jesus appears in the clouds of the sky at the rapture of the Church, when He calls up all those who belong to Him, left here on the earth alive, before the seven year tribulation begins. But rather, great rejoicing will take place! They will see the Son of Man coming on the couds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His ELECT [Jesus is addressing Israel, not the Church which did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Vs 30-31. The angels will gather His ELECT, in Mt.24:31, from the four winds [ISRAEL], from one end of the heavens to the other [THE RAPTURED CHURCH], in His second coming,- confirming Ez.34:11-16, meaning, the Jewish people from all over the entire world. Take notice: No one meets the Lord in the clouds of the sky, here. Nor does does He return from the clouds of the sky with us, to our Father in heaven, as the Scriptures reveal He will in Jn.14:2-4 and 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, at the pre-trib rapture of the Church. Nor does Jesus remain in the clouds of the sky, but will take us to our Father in heaven.  

Jesus will return in His second coming, to the earth, where He will remain to establish His 1,000 year kingdom here on the earth, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. Jesus Olivet Discourse, recorded in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21, pertains to His second coming to the earth and has nothing whatever to do with the Church. Because the ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 as well as in 10:5-6. The Church did not exist until the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9. It was in response to the questions His disciples had asked Him in Mt.24:3, "...when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age." Which He clearly revealed to them, completely through the seven year tribulation to the signs of His coming and of His actual arrival, in Mt.24:30-31 on the Mount of Olives, according to Zech.14:5.

The "second coming" is found in Zech.14:4-5; Jude 14; where you find Jesus returning with all His angels in Mt.24:30-31 and His entire Church following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in Rev.19:14 [A sign of the righteous acts of the saints, as found in Rev.19:8, NIV], in His armies from heaven. Which makes it quite impossible for any such thing as a post-trib rapture.The entire text by Jesus, from Mt.24:4-31 is an amplification of Dan.9:27, where God has decreed Israel to go through the 70th and final week/the seven year tribulation. Which the Church will not go through, according to 2 Thes.2:3 and 7. The antichrist is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, the very same person found in Dan.7:23-27; 8:9-12 and in 9:27, confirmed by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 8, that immediately follow the pre-trib rapture of the Church, recorded in 2 Thes.2:3. There is no resemblance of Mt.24:30-31, or in any of the counterparts in Mk.13 and Lk.21 of the second coming of Christ, to the earth, to that of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, when Jesus gathers us all into the clouds of the sky and takes us from there to our Father in heaven, as He promised us, in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. And Paul in 1 Thes.4:14-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8. Confirming Dan.9:27. [The latter confirms who the antichrist is, his triggering the 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation and the timing of the pre-trib rapture of the Church as confirmed by Paul in 2 Thes.2:3-4].

From another source:  http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-Di ... heRapt.pdf


Quasar93

Thanks for sharing Quasar. True biblical words. I always like to learn from someone such as you who ministers with God's true words. God bless.

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

So far you're not getting this Last Daze.

Here, read Matthew 24:37-39 carefully. Jesus is telling us He will be coming for the church at a time when people on earth are doing normal daily routine activities: eating, drinking, getting married etc.

Do you see where it said "the coming of the Son of Man?"

Matthew 24:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. ³⁸ For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, ³⁹ and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Now if you're trying to tell us a parallel scripture to Matthew 24:37-39 is Revelation 11:10 when people celebrate the death of the two witnesses, than show us where in the bible does it say Jesus will come on the day the two witnesses dies. 

There's numerous scriptures throughout the bible about people celebrating. People celebrate every year. What makes you think Jesus is coming whenever people celebrate? Are you following me now? 

I'll spell it out as clearly as I can for you.  I referenced Revelation 11:10 to show that the oppressive conditions (no fresh water, intense heat, etc.) had been lifted when the two witnesses were killed as evidenced by the world wide celebration.  It shows that things are returning back to normal.  On the 45th day after the two witnesses are killed is the day of the Lord.  The day of the Lord is when Jesus returns and we are made immortal and gathered to Him.

Connecting the dots:

• The day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.  1 Thessalonians 5:2
• The day of the Lord is when we are gathered to Him (immortality, rapture).  2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
• The day of the Lord, when Jesus comes as a thief, is future to the gathering of armies at Armageddon.  Revelation 16:15
• Our being made immortal, and being gathered to Jesus (the blessed hope) happens after the armies gather for Armageddon.

Hear the words of Jesus as the armies are being gathered together for Armageddon:

• “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  Revelation 16:15

I hope to post a thread with a visual timeline soon since some people are more geared toward that.  I think you'll like it.

[Psalms37:4]

23 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I'll spell it out as clearly as I can for you.  I referenced Revelation 11:10 to show that the oppressive conditions (no fresh water, intense heat, etc.) had been lifted when the two witnesses were killed as evidenced by the world wide celebration.  It shows that things are returning back to normal.  On the 45th day after the two witnesses are killed is the day of the Lord.  The day of the Lord is when Jesus returns and we are made immortal and gathered to Him.

Connecting the dots:

• The day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.  1 Thessalonians 5:2
• The day of the Lord is when we are gathered to Him (immortality, rapture).  2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
• The day of the Lord, when Jesus comes as a thief, is future to the gathering of armies at Armageddon.  Revelation 16:15
• Our being made immortal, and being gathered to Jesus (the blessed hope) happens after the armies gather for Armageddon.

Hear the words of Jesus as the armies are being gathered together for Armageddon:

• “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  Revelation 16:15

I hope to post a thread with a visual timeline soon since some people are more geared toward that.  I think you'll like it.

Last Daze, I'm not interested in another topic.

If you believe Revelation 11:10 is a parallel scripture to Matthew 24:37-39, I just wanna know if you have any scripture supporting your theory Jesus returns when the two witnesses dies?

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

In the original languages, THE SON OF MAN is only referenced in Enoch. There is ample evidence that Yeshua and the Apostles drew from Enoch by the almost exact phrase matches in the epistles and much of their writing.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Last Daze, I'm not interested in another topic.

If you believe Revelation 11:10 is a parallel scripture to Matthew 24:37-39, I just wanna know if you have any scripture supporting your theory Jesus returns when the two witnesses dies?

I'm not going to be provoked by deliberate obtuseness.  I've explained myself well enough.

[PeterAV]

On 12/7/2017 at 3:42 PM, Psalms37:4 said:

The rapture of the church and the Second Coming are clearly two distinct comings as different as night and day.

In the rapture, Christ comes at a time on earth when people are partying, celebrating, getting married etc. Hard to imagine any of this this happening anytime inside or immediately after the tribulation.

 

 

Meaning: I don't really believe God's word, so I will trump God's word with my own opinion as the final arbiture in this matter!

Please note how no pre-tribber never gives us this pre-trib rapture verse, that actually has the rapture before the tribulation.

2 Thess two:1 clearly shows them at the same time; namely that day!

[Psalms37:4]

14 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'm not going to be provoked by deliberate obtuseness.  I've explained myself well enough.

LOL! I'm enjoying every minute of this.

It's not obtuse Last Daze, I'm deliberately ignoring your arguments on different topics. You tried to be a wise guy with me using Revelation 11:10 to refute my first post I wrote on the first page. I'm just throwing back at you the same verse you threw at me.

No offense brother. Peace!

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

9 hours ago, PeterAV said:

Meaning: I don't really believe God's word, so I will trump God's word with my own opinion as the final arbiture in this matter!

Please note how no pre-tribber never gives us this pre-trib rapture verse, that actually has the rapture before the tribulation.

Here, read this. Don't freak out now. There's a lot of scriptures posted.

http://www.cpals.net/forums/index.php?/topic/18398-scriptures-on-the-pre-tribulation-rapture/

 

9 hours ago, PeterAV said:

2 Thess two:1 clearly shows them at the same time; namely that day!

This is what 2 Thess 2:1 said. You're clearly pushing something that's not there. In other words, you're attempting to trump God's word with your own opinion. 

2 Thessalonians 2:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

 

 

 

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

LOL! I'm enjoying every minute of this.

It's not obtuse Last Daze, I'm deliberately ignoring your arguments on different topics. You tried to be a wise guy with me using Revelation 11:10 to refute my first post I wrote on the first page. I'm just throwing back at you the same verse you threw at me.

No offense brother. Peace!

 

 

 

Its good to know that you consider all this as one big joke.