Revelation 3:10

[Keras]

Really Marilyn? Perhaps you should read this very carefully:

Holy Discipline:

In the struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.  You have forgotten the exhortation, which address you as sons:

My son; do not think lightly of the Lord’s discipline, or be discouraged when He corrects you. For whom the Lord loves, He disciplines and He chastises every son He acknowledges.

 

You must endure this testing, God is treating you as His children. Can anyone be a child and not be disciplined by his father?

If you avoid the discipline in which all children share, the you must be illegitimate and not true children.

Again, as we paid due respect to our human fathers who disciplined us, we should submit even more readily to our Spiritual father and so attain Life. They disciplined us for a short time, as they thought best, but God does so for our true welfare, so that we may share in His holiness.

 

Discipline, to be sure, is never pleasant and at times; painful, but afterwards those who have been trained by it will reap the harvest of a peaceful and upright life.

 

So: brace your drooping arms and shaking knees and keep strong in your faith, then after it is all over God will give healing and blessings.

Hebrews 12:4-13

 

[Heleadethme]

Jesus said to His followers that in this world ye shall have tribulation but fear not for I have overcome the world.  Tribulation is not the wrath of God……..that is where the confusion lies, in equating the two words wrath and tribulation.  As believers we do undergo tribulation, as Jesus said, and as Keras has reminded us about the chastisements that the believer undergoes in life……we are appointed to suffer for His name, but the world is appointed to wrath.  And moreover the bible also says the Lord will trouble those who trouble us.

Revelation 7:9-14

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[ghtan]

If we apply 3:10 to the first century church and not to the end time church, there is no confusion.

[Last Daze]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

The Lord kept Israel from the plagues in Egypt because it is an earthly nation. We, the Body of Christ are a holy nation from all the nations of the world destined for heaven. Our `trial` is the dying to self, which is far more difficult than `not taking the mark, or giving our body to be burned, or giving all to the poor, or having all knowledge or understanding all mysteries etc` (1 Cor. 13) There is NO purpose for us to go through the trial of the world, it is for them.

Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn,

It's not a trial of worldly people, or "them" as you say.  There would be no point in that.  Those who took pleasure in unrighteousness and did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved will be under a strong delusion.  The purpose of the time of global testing is to bring the body of Christ to the unity of the faith.

• Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.  Ephesians 4:13

We will be brought to the unity of the faith by testing.  How else can it be known that you have "died to self" unless that supposition is tested and proven?

• So that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.  1 Peter 1:7

Faith is tested and proven.  That should come as no surprise.

• Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.  1 Peter 4:12-13

It is expected that our faith will be tested.  The body of Christ must be brought to the unity of the faith.  The time of global testing will accomplish that, and then Satan's kingdom will be brought to an end.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Hi Marilyn,

It's not a trial of worldly people, or "them" as you say.  There would be no point in that.  Those who took pleasure in unrighteousness and did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved will be under a strong delusion.  The purpose of the time of global testing is to bring the body of Christ to the unity of the faith.

• Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.  Ephesians 4:13

We will be brought to the unity of the faith by testing.  How else can it be known that you have "died to self" unless that supposition is tested and proven?

• So that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.  1 Peter 1:7

Faith is tested and proven.  That should come as no surprise.

• Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.  1 Peter 4:12-13

It is expected that our faith will be tested.  The body of Christ must be brought to the unity of the faith.  The time of global testing will accomplish that, and then Satan's kingdom will be brought to an end.

Hi Last Daze,

I can see how you are thinking there bro, however.....let`s look a bit closer together.

`...the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.` (Rev. 3: 10)

That is a `test` for the whole world as we know as to who will take the mark & worship the beast. That is a test for all mankind, unbelievers and those who have turned to God as to whom they will serve. Man`s last opportunity (in this age) before Christ comes.

The `unity of the faith` is not brought about by a `test.` We do not have to pass tests to be approved of God, remember we are in Christ, He is the one who is bringing us to Himself -

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

It is the Lord`s Holy Spirit who brings the Body to the unity of the faith, what they believe of Christ, His character and His purposes.

`And He Himself gave ....(ministry gifts)...till we all come to the unity of the faith AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD, to a perfect (mature) man, to the measure of the fullness of Christ, that we no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, BUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE MAY GROW UP in all things INTO HIM who is the Head - Christ....` (Eph. 4: 11 - 15)

It is all about growing up in Christ BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, nothing of US doing a test. Who are we (speaking generally) to even think that we are capable of bringing the Body to maturity, it is the Lord by His Holy Spirit who has been doing this since the Body of Christ was formed.

regards, Marilyn.

 

 

[Last Daze]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

It is the Lord`s Holy Spirit who brings the Body to the unity of the faith, what they believe of Christ, His character and His purposes.

Being brought to the unity of the faith goes beyond doctrinal agreement.  Our faith has to manifest itself in lifestyle worship or it's dead.  That's an emphasis of new covenant teaching, to worship God in spirit and truth.

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`And He Himself gave ....(ministry gifts)...till we all come to the unity of the faith AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD, to a perfect (mature) man, to the measure of the fullness of Christ

The knowledge of the Son of God goes well beyond knowing about Him.  If knowing about Jesus doesn't lead to knowing Him then it profits nothing.  The bridegroom did not know the foolish virgins because they did not know him.  They knew about him since they were expecting his return, but they didn't know him.  What made the foolish virgins foolish?  According to Jesus in Matthew 7:26, it's hearing His teachings and not acting on them.  You can agree with them and nod your head, but if you don't put them into practice, you deceive yourself.

Again, having our faith tested should not come as a surprise or be seen as strange.

• Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.  1 Peter 4:12-13

It is expected that our faith is to be tested.  How is that accomplished?  However God wills, but fiery ordeals can obviously be a part of that.  The testing our faith is part of the growth process that brings us to maturity.

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

That is a `test` for the whole world as we know as to who will take the mark & worship the beast. That is a test for all mankind, unbelievers and those who have turned to God as to whom they will serve. Man`s last opportunity (in this age) before Christ comes.

It's not a test for unbelievers.  They have no faith to be tested and are kept under a strong delusion and punishment.  2 Peter 2:9.  It's a time of testing for those who did not keep the word of His perseverance.  It's a time of testing for believers who were deceived into accepting the mark and worshiping the image.  The plagues will convince the elect of their error and they will repent because the elect will not ultimately be deceived.  The is no testing of the ungodly.

[7trumpets]

You have to remember John was taken forward into the future.   

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

You have 7 types of  churches today.   Its not what the name is above the church but what they teach "ie" their works.

The Subject is their "works." 

Object is to Overcome Satans tribulation.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

All the churches fell short and didn't overcome but a few from each church. 

Only 2 churches did God find no fault with Philadelphia and Smyrna.

Rev 2:8  And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

 Philadelphia

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

In other words both these churches taught just who Satan's children are.    For they are the tares today.   Matt 13:39-40.

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Edited December 11, 2017 by 7trumpets

[Keras]

This doctrine of testing our faith, is contentious. We know that many who have died have not had to 'pass thru fire' or anything like that. Only the early Church and in a few areas of the world today, is any serious testing of a Christians faith happening. 

So those who have been tested and found worthy, will have their names Written in the Book of Life and will receive immortality at the Great White Throne Judgement. What of those who never experienced a severe test?  Only God knows; He is the Judge.  Actually, everyone has had to make choices in their life and also whether they properly utilized their talents, etc, will all count, for or against. Revelation 20:13b

But today, as we are so close to the Day the God will change the world by fire, on the Day of Judgement when the godless will be destroyed. 2 Peter 3:7 and over 100 other prophesies that graphically describe the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath, we are the people alive now, who will have to face that terrible Day. 

So we must 'overcome', or be 'victorious' as 7 Trumpets shows.  We must stand firm in our faith that God will keep us safe, as 1000's fall around us. Psalms 91:7, Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 43:2, Zechariah 9:15-16, 2 Peter 2:9. +  We are told to call upon His Name on that Day; Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

What does help, is to know what it is that God intends to do. The Bible prophets have told us, in great detail exactly what is going to happen.  It amazes me that most just ignore, spiritualize, throw into history, or outright reject these prophesies. They will be taken by surprise, shocked and not knowing which way to turn, Luke 21:25-26, we should be aware and prepared for what must come. 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Being brought to the unity of the faith goes beyond doctrinal agreement.  Our faith has to manifest itself in lifestyle worship or it's dead.  That's an emphasis of new covenant teaching, to worship God in spirit and truth.

The knowledge of the Son of God goes well beyond knowing about Him.  If knowing about Jesus doesn't lead to knowing Him then it profits nothing. 

Hi Last Daze,

You hit the nail right on the head there bro. I so agree with you, that `knowing` (for true believers) in the scripturally way is a deep & intimate relationship of the Lord. And when we actually truly know the Lord, (more & more) it is His character and His purposes that He reveals to us by His Holy Spirit. Then the daily walk, as you and I well know, is all about `obedience` and having a heart cleansed, mind renewed & spirit alive unto Christ`s Holy Spirit.

Many unbelievers will not take the mark or worship the Global leader, and they are the `sheep` nations and will go into the millennium. Ever thought of that bro?

So no, the taking of the mark or not is a test, but not the test of intimately walking with the Lord. remember -

`...though I give my body to be burned, all my goods to the poor...etc`

One act does not equal a life of obedience, walking with the Lord.

Marilyn.   

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You hit the nail right on the head there bro. I so agree with you, that `knowing` (for true believers) in the scripturally way is a deep & intimate relationship of the Lord. And when we actually truly know the Lord, (more & more) it is His character and His purposes that He reveals to us by His Holy Spirit. Then the daily walk, as you and I well know, is all about `obedience` and having a heart cleansed, mind renewed & spirit alive unto Christ`s Holy Spirit.

Amen sister!  Absolutely agree.

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Many unbelievers will not take the mark or worship the Global leader, and they are the `sheep` nations and will go into the millennium. Ever thought of that bro?

I'm not convinced that the sheep-goat separation is before the millennium but that is neither here nor there.  How do you scripturally back up your statement that "many unbelievers will not take the mark"?  I don't think that we can conceive of what conditions will be like after 2.5 billion people die as the result of the seals 2, 3, and 4 war or what impact that will have on the human psyche.  Combine that with the false prophet performing amazing signs and wonders and deceiving the world thereby into believing that he is actually God and that those who refuse his mark-image will be put to death and I'm not so sure about the idea that many unbelievers won't take the mark.  The mark and the image are inseparable.

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

One act does not equal a life of obedience, walking with the Lord.

Perhaps not.  But only those who have lived a life of obedience will have the discernment and strength to resist the mark-image and literally offer themselves as a sacrifice.

• Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.  Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.  Philippians 2:5-8

You're correct Marilyn.  It is all about obedience.  Even if that obedience costs us our lives.  May we have that attitude in ourselves.