What is the Day of the Lord?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well...this is proof by omission and logically fallacious. In other words; the omission of a fact in an investigation is not proof of the opposite. No conclusion can be drawn in a case like this. However, you mention, "we have a dozen verses telling us that is where He should have been". This is positive proof and refutes the negative proof you offer, and in your own words. Also, there a many omissions of attributes of the throne room. Are you saying these do not exist? For instance, what about the train of His robe filling the temple from Isaiah 6? Is that not there? What about the blazing, wheeled throne of God from Dan 7? Have the flames gone out in Rev 5? So do the seraphim no longer have hands? Is there no tong to remove coals from the altar, is there no altar, as these things are not mentioned in Rev 4-5? Just because these attributes are not mentioned in Rev 4-5 does not mean they are absent. Clearly they are attributes as scripture tells us they exist.

It is written down and a fact: a TRUE fact: John did not SEE Jesus in the throne room. And in the chapter we can determine why. That is, if we believe what is written. Have you read any verses about Jesus at the right hand of the Father? 

Stephen SAW Him there:

Acts 7:56

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 

Ephesians 1:20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 

There are many more such verses. When John looked into the throne room, Jesus was NOT THERE. Perhaps you are just not inquisitive and don't wonder why.  Your questions about other things missing are irrelevant, for we see in chapter 5 that Jesus, as a "lamb having been slain" just arrives - as further proof He was not there before. 

 

Then we see the Holy Spirit (as the seven spirits of God) still there in the throne room, in chapter 4, when Jesus said He would send Him down as soon as He ascended. Then we see in chapter 5, Jesus arrives in the throne room and the Holy Spirit is instantly sent down.  All those other things you mention are irrelevant to this story John is telling. 

 

What is the purpose of these two chapters? Why did the Holy Spirit include them? Why did we need to know Jesus was NOT there, but later showed up? All this is to establish the CONTEXT for the seals. God wished for us to know about the book with the seven seals, so He first showed us the book in His own right hand. Then showed us how Jesus the Redeemer took the book, being worthy, and began opening the seals. The way it is written, we know approximately WHEN the first seals were opened.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

2. John watched a search in heaven, on earth and under the earth for one worthy to break the seals, and that search ended in failure. Why? If it was future, Jesus would have been found in the FIRST search. 

Nooo...you are creating a false equivalency. No search was undertaken. This is a statement of fact. No person was found worthy. This isn't the result of a physical search, it's a statement of the unworthiness of the heart and spirit of mankind to attain the position and responsibility required. Jesus prevailed and was found worthy in Spirit.

I guess you don't read as I read. 

Rev. 5:² And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

³ And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

⁴ And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Was there a search? Of course there was a search! I don't need to see the word "search" to know there was a search.  It appears that angels were doing this search, but John does not tell us. But if not angels, who else?  When we read "no man was found," we know they were LOOKING for a man worthy to take this book and open the seals. 

We can also determine that ANOTHER search was made, and in this other search, JESUS was found.

⁵ And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So we have a search where "No man was found." Then we have Jesus prevailing to open the book. So we can determine that another search was made and in this other search, a man WAS found. It makes no difference whether you believe it or not, it happened and John wrote it. I will admit, it does not say John WATCHED this search, all we know is that John knew the outcome. It just seems very likely John DID watch for he knew the search included heaven, earth, and under the earth (hades). 

If one reads this carefully, then can see timing AND the movement of time. 

 

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Hmm...If this is the case, the Holy Spirit not on earth and only in heaven in ch 5 of Rev, then you must be saying the power of the Spirit is limited to location. As in the Spirit cannot empower believers from a location where He is not. How do you explain the power of the Spirit in millions of individuals, concurrently, all over the earth? You must also be saying the Spirit could not have been with the many OT prophets as the Spirit had not been sent by Jesus until NT times.

The Holy Spirit's presence is everywhere. When He is in one believer (or a billion believers) He is still here on earth, and also everywhere else. But He was there, as the seven spirits of God, and He was later sent down just as Jesus said He would do. 

John 16:⁷ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Rev. 4:⁵ And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev. 5:⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

So the Holy Spirit was there, in the throne room, then as soon as Jesus ascended, He was sent down.

If you care to explain to the believers how the Holy Spirit is before the throne, then send down, but is always omnipresent, please do. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Where does Rev 4-5 say Jesus just ascended? Like scripture. Words that say something like, "Jesus just ascended."?

I'll take it back: SIX reasons:

In chapter five we see the moment the Holy Spirit was sent down: the same moment Jesus ascended.

Where?

If you have not seen these things by now, chances are good you will never see them until we get to heaven. However, some can read and see now. Maybe you need to "camp out" on chapters 4 & 5 for a while. 

This is not that difficult a concept: if I am busy at my desk but know I am alone in the room, then here a sound and turn and look, and my wife is now in the room, it stands to reason she just walked in and the sound I heard was the door opening.  It is a fact as John wrote, TRUTH: Jesus was NOT THERE, then later arrived. 

Do I need to explain that the throne room in heaven is far from planet earth, and that for someone to get from earth to heaven, they must ascend? 

John 6:62

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

 

As I said before, if you have not seen these things yet, chances are great you never will, until YOU ascend and then know as you are known.  Have you overlooked 5:6 all this time?  John got to see the moment Jesus ascended and entered the throne room. That would have been right after He told Mary not to touch Him for He and not yet ascended. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

You'll soon see the truth. The beast will be resurrected soon and the first seal opened, soon.

You remind me of Socrates famous quote: one who THINKS they know, when in fact, they don't. 

Question: are people still being put to death because they love and serve Jesus? (I speak of martyrs.)

Revelation 6:10 (BBE) And they gave a great cry, saying, How long will it be, O Ruler, holy and true, before you take your place as judge and give punishment for our blood to those on the earth?

In case you missed it: we are in the age of Grace. Judgment will follow when this age ends. Can you guess when? Can you guess what event will usher in judgment?

[iamlamad]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:24 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

"There are six reasons in chapters 4 & 5 to show us it was a vision of the past. And that, my friend, is the CONTEXT of the first seals. He broke five seals, and then at the fifth said there must be a time of waiting."

 

None of the seals have  been opened as we speak .... the Lord will open these just before He brings His wrath and tribulation upon an unbelieving world

So can you show us this with scripture? No, because the scriptures show Jesus began opening the seals as soon as He ascended back into heaven. Did you overlook Rev. 5 - which shows us the moment Jesus ascended and arrived in the throne room?

[Daniel 11:36]

John is caught up to heaven and into the future in chapter 4 to be shown what will be "hereafter"

.... still pending as we speak

Edited December 31, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Dennis1209]

On 12/30/2017 at 11:02 AM, naominash said:

It is hard for me to follow the chronology of the end times. I admire people who study it.

I need to read Daniel and Revelations again.

That's wisdom, let the Word of God speak to you.

There's more interpretations, timelines and ideas on Revelation than Carter had liver pills. You're probably to young to understand my metaphor. But a sound understanding of Daniel 9: 24 - 27 is the foundation to understanding much of Revelation. I have studied Revelation in detail and have many books and commentaries on the Book of Revelation. One thing all expositor's have in common, no one agrees and they all have different opinions. 

What I have noticed, is the Book of Daniel is being unsealed before our eyes, and we're getting a better look at what is shaping up and how things are progressing. We're getting better understanding and leading modern scholars (and ourselves) of today, to interpret Revelation more accurately. But that's only my opinion. 

Don't give up your studies in prophesy and Daniel / Revelation, it's so rewarding. It's the honor of King's to search out a thing. 

God Bless