GEOLOGY REVEALS: One Creation, One Restoration and Two Global Floods

[hmbld]

Why is it so important to convince others of a strange story that does not point to Jesus?  

[Quasar93]

7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

You have shown no scriptural proof.  Your beliefs are based on subjective articles and biblical silence.  You cannot prove your theories by pointing to a non-existent gap between 2 verses of scripture.  That is what the entire Gap Theory is built upon.  I do not need to prove something in contradiction to the theory you are floating.  The burden of proof is on you, and, as is usual for false doctrine purveyors, you point to everything but the Bible to prove what you say, and then continually denigrate the people that oppose you.  That immediately displays that your belief has huge flaws or you would not resort to such tactics.  All you are doing with posts such as the one above is aptly illustrating that your belief has no substance. 

 

Your above opinion fails to support a young earth age whatever.  I have posted three or four articles with old age support and literal facts for an old age earth, in addition to that which comes directly from the Bible.  You'll have to come up with much better than that to debunk an old aged earth.  For example, take a look at Heb.1:1-2 where God created the UNIVERSE through Jesus.  In other words, keep in mind, the earth was created WITH the universe, not much later, separately.

Before the earth was flooded in the first of two global floods, in Gen.1:2:

Proverbs 8:22-29: "22 Lord[c][d]
    before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
    at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
    when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
    before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
    or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
    when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
    and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
    so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

[context ends in verse 36]

After the earth was flooded the first of two times, in Gen.1:2:

Ps.24:1 "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,

the world, and all who live in it;

2for he founded it on the seas

and established it on the waters."

2 Pet.3:5 "For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."

The second of the two global floods is recorded in Gen.7.

 

Quasar93

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

After the earth was flooded the first of two times, in Gen.1:2:

Ps.24:1 "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,

the world, and all who live in it;

2for he founded it on the seas

and established it on the waters."

The problem is that you have not yet addressed the problem of the vav disjunctive.   How do you explain the disjoining of Gen. 1:1 and 1:2?   Seems you keep running for cover when that issue is raised.   Doesn't a man who claims to have three Bible college degrees have the courage or knowledge to actually address that?

[Quasar93]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem is that you have not yet addressed the problem of the vav disjunctive.   How do you explain the disjoining of Gen. 1:1 and 1:2?   Seems you keep running for cover when that issue is raised.   Doesn't a man who claims to have three Bible college degrees have the courage or knowledge to actually address that?

 

The problem you allude to is non-existent.  The only running away from the issue is all of you who fail to provide a shred of proof for a young earth age in rebuttal of the Scriptural and scientific proof for an old earth age I have posted in numerous places.  The destruction of the earth in Gen.1:2 end in verse 2.  The new reconstruction and new creation in days 5 and 6, begin in verse 3.  That's it, pure and simple. 

[HAZARD]

  2 Peter 3:5, For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    v. 6, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 

The world, that now is, never perished during Noah's flood. The sun, moon and stars continued to shine, Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives survived, and so did all the animals in the ark.

Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. FULL STOP.

Genesis 1:2, And the earth was without form,form, and void; void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Since when does God create and form anything that is not perfect first time? 

Psalm 90:2, Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Did God have trouble forming the Earth the first time round in Gen. 1;1, and He had to have another go at it in Gen. 1:2.?

Proverbs 26:10, The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

God had no problems forming everything else Including man, so why did he have trouble forming the earth, making it without form and void and in darkness and covered in water, Gen. 1:2?

[HAZARD]

On ‎23‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:08 AM, shiloh357 said:

God provided a plan for us despite our rebellion against Him.   So the truth is that had their been a rebellion of a pre-adamite race of human beings, God would have redeemed them.   The fact that you admit that He didn't, only highlights why there was no pre-adamite race.    You have to deny God's redemptive nature to do so.

You can follow the teachings of your pedophile prophet, Dake.  I'll just stick close to Jesus and the Bible.

 

Look what I found for you, pretty much lines up with the entire Bible. Hundreds of Scriptures here, enough to blot out many no's, no's, no's, and he's a heretic?

       

http://www.keithhunt.com/Devlsin1.html

REBELLION AND OVERTHROW
    OF PRE-ADAMITE WORLD

                             by

                         Finis Dake
                           (1949)


FOREWORD by Keith Hunt:

On this issue of the pre-Adamite world and the rebellion of
Lucifer and one third of the angels, I am 95% in agreement
with Finis Dake. I will not attempt to re-invent the wheel,
so I will present to you 95% of Dake's study on this Biblical
topic. (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; Ezek 28:11-17;
                         2 Pet 3:5-6)
    
     Earth's First Sinless Career (Gen 1:1; Ezek 28:15)
    


1. THE ANTE-CHAOTIC AGE - RULE OF ANGELS

  

 

   The Ante-chaotic Age extended from the original creation of
the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the rebellion
and overthrow of the first kosmos, or social order on the Earth.
It was the dateless period between Gen.1:1 when the Earth was
finished and inhabited in the beginning and Gen.1:2 when the
Earth was first flooded, destroying all life therein. It takes in
that unknown time during which Earth was in its first perfect
state and ruled by Lucifer before he rebelled and caused the
Earth to be flooded, as in Gen. 1:2.

In Ezek.28:11-17 it is stated of Lucifer: "Thou wast perfect in
thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was
found in thee." This teaches that there was a period of
perfection and sinlessness on the Earth before its curse and
chaotic state as in Gen.1:2; so we call this period, "The
Ante-chaotic Age." During this age spirit beings ruled the Earth
and other planets, and it might be called "The Dispensation of
Angels." This administration of angels was evidently a moral or
probationary period designed to test the angels before trusting
them in an eternal. So we call it a "dispensation," which means a
moral or probationary period which God tests free moral agents
according to a fixed standard of conduct.
All spirit beings must of necessity be tested like human free
moral agents to see if they will obey God before they are trusted
with higher and eternal responsibility.
Angels were fresh from the hand of God in creation and had been
created with free wills; so they were capable of making their own
choice as to whether they wanted to obey or not. They had to
learn by the experience of being tested whether they would or
would not obey God. They had to learn obedience. They also had to
learn that God was just and holy in all His ways and that He
could and should be trusted in all things that could not be made
known to free moral agents at one time. They had to learn that
God was the Supreme Moral Governor of the universe and that all
creatures should consecrate themselves to the same end to which
God Himself was consecrated - the highest good of the universe
and all creatures therein. They had to prove themselves true to
God in order to get the rewards for obedience. They had to
earn that God's Word was true concerning penalties for
disobedience.

God's dispensational dealings were for the same purpose with the
spirit beings as they are with human beings....

If Lucifer and many other spirit beings had remained true to God,
there would have been no universal curse on the Earth and no need
for a re-creation of the atmospheric heavens and the Earth and
life on the planet Earth, as recorded in Gen.1:3-2:25....
The Bible record of the first curse on Earth and the cancellation
of the administration of angels over the Earth should make the
present administrators fear God because of their rebellion. Peter
warns the present human rebels on Earth thus: "Whose judgment now
for a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth
not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them
down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be
reserved unto judgment; and spared not the old world but saved
Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in
the flood upon the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities
of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an
overthrow, making them an example unto those that should live
ungodly; and delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy
conversation of the wicked .... The Lord knoweth how to deliver
the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the
day of judgment to be punished" (2 Pet.2:4-9). Jude also speaks
of the judgment of God upon both angels and men in the past for
rebellion (Jude 5-7).

Paul gives the example of how God cut off Israel because of
rebellion and unbelief and warned the Gentiles to "take heed lest
He spare not thee" (Rom.11:1-26). He also gives the example of
the Gentile world that did not appreciate the knowledge of God
but became vain in their imaginations and hard and stubborn in
their rebellion until God gave them over to vile affections to
destroy themselves (Rom.1:16-32). Many other examples could be
given of God's judgment upon men in various ages, as we shall
later note in our study of the ages and dispensations, but these
are sufficient here to show why God had to deal with the angelic
administrators of the Earth long before the days of Adam.

The "ways" in which Lucifer was perfect until iniquity was found
in him prove that angels were placed under certain restrictions
for the purpose of testing them. Tests are absolutely necessary
for any material thing that is made to discover if it will do
what it was designed and made for. The same thing is especially
true of free moral agents who are capable of voluntary choices
concerning moral tests....
There would be no object in creating free wills if there were not
laws for them to obey and to restrict and guide them in their
association with all other creatures in society. There would be
no need in creating creatures capable of voluntary obedience
without also stating the right and wrong ways so they can make
their choice as to which way they will go. It is written even of
the Sinless One, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience
by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he
became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey
him" (Heb.5:7-10).

It can be seen, therefore, that sinless creatures can learn
obedience to the right ways without committing sin. They can
learn by experience how to know God and walk in His ways without
going through any degree of experience in sin, for it is written
of the tested and tried Son of God, "Who did no sin, neither was
guile found in his mouth" (1 Pet.2:21-25; Heb.2:14-18; 4:14-16;
5:7-10).

Neither angels nor men would have had to sin in order to learn
obedience and be tried by moral tests; so the old theory that sin
is necessary in order for free moral agents to learn obedience is
not true. In the eternal future when men will multiply forever in
the New Earth....
If it was necessary to test human free wills and even the Son of
God, it certainly would be necessary to test the spirit beings
for the same purpose. How was God to know which of the spirit
beings would remain true and which ones would not, until they
were all tested and either proved faithful or unfaithful? They
could not have been tested without definite tests and laws to
obey. Naturally all free wills would not choose the same things
and exercise their creative free-choice powers in the same way
and in the same degree of wilful obedience or disobedience. This
has been demonstrated by free wills ever since they were created.
This certainly is clear to all present free moral agents who know
of themselves that they can make free and voluntary choice
concerning any detail of life.

It was not until Adam and Eve actually sinned that God knew the
full results of their test (Gen.3). It was not until man had
proved such a failure before the flood that God regretted having
made him (Gen.6:5-7). It was not until God came down to see the
rebellion of the post-diluvians, Sodom and Gomorrah and others,
that God took action (Gen.11:1-9; Gen.18:21).
So it is with every free moral agent of any period. Each
has to be tried and purged of any possibility of falling before
God places him in an eternal state and gives him eternal
responsibility.

In God's moral government there must be laws for all creatures,
and each creature must be assigned some particular responsibility
so that the universe will run in perfect harmony. God could not
rule free wills if each was free to do as he pleased. No
government could long endure with such a plan. This is plainly
evident to anyone who lives in any kind of society. If all were
free to do as they pleased God could not depend upon them to
carry out His eternal plan.
It is even necessary in human affairs that each person do
something and be responsible for something if anything is to be
accomplished in human activity. This is true of the smallest to
the greatest project undertaken by free wills. The greater the
project, the greater the responsibility for those who are trusted
for its completion. The greater the project, the greater the need
for many persons to be responsible for some part of the plan. How
much more true would it be in the running of the vast universe?
God is methodical in everything and has fixed laws that govern
every detail of the vast universe. Each free will is given a part
in the carrying out of the mutual plan for all concerned. God has
a plan for the life and work of each creature and has a purpose
for each material thing created.
Every planet, every sun, and every moon, and every star must run
in its own creative orbit. Each one of them must run on time, or
there would soon be nothing dependable in the planetary system.
Times and seasons would be thrown out of order, and all life on
all planets would soon be destroyed. So it is with the moral
creation. God did not make it to be chaos and ruin and each
person to be a lawless, irresponsible creature, to cause
governmental function to cease, or to do as he pleases. There
must be some order and someone to keep order. There must be one
law for all in order assure justice to all. There must be
voluntary and mutual co-operation on the part of each free will
for all to fit into and carry out the plan for the best good of
all.

Each creature must be held responsible for his own acts. He must
be rewarded for obedience or punished for disobedience, or no
government can properly function for the best good of all. If God
is to hold the respect and wilful obedience of all creatures,
then He must be fair and just to all - delivering out punishments
for sin and distributing rewards for obedience.

Government by rewards and penalties for all alike is the only
just form of government and the only one that can continue
forever. When government becomes corrupt and shows respect of
persons, and injustice to some and special favors to others,
then it ceases to carry out its purpose. This would soon lead to
rebellion and eventual overthrow. If rebels against proper and
just government were permitted to continue to openly rebel
without punishment, there would be no incentive for others to
remain true and support the government. It would soon fall. So to
be just, God is forced by circumstances to deal with rebels
against His government and put down such rebellion if He is to
continue His government for the best good of all. He is likewise
obligated to reward the faithful and preserve proper and just
government for them.

On these grounds every child of God can claim rewards and
benefits that are promised to them by God in the many promises of
Scripture.....

The Bible teaches that one-third of the angels proved untrue as
did all the subjects of the first social order on the Earth over
whom Lucifer ruled before the days of Adam. Just how many rulers
and subjects of other planets rebelled is not definitely stated,
but we do learn from Scripture that there are thrones and
kingdoms in the heavens as well as on the Earth, visible and
invisible (Col.1:15-18); that God charged some of His angels with
folly (Job 4:18); that over one-third of God's angels rebelled
with Lucifer (Rev.12:3-12; Matt.24:41); that redeemed human
beings are to judge (rule) angels (1 Cor.6:3 ); that women are
not to cut their hair but keep it long as a sign of subjection to
their own husbands so that angels will have good examples to be
in subjection to God (1 Cor.11:10); that the purpose of the
Millennial reign of Christ is to "gather in one all things in
Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in
him" (Eph.1:10), and to rid the Earth of all rebels (1 Cor.
15:24-28); that all rebels of every kind and every realm will
have to finally acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the
glory of God the Father (Phil.2:9-11); that it is Christ's work
to reconcile both the things in Heaven and the things in Earth
(Eph.1:10; Col.1:20); that Christ has already triumphed over the
rebels and is exalted above all other angelic rulers and powers
far above all heavens (Eph.1:21; 6:10-18; Col.2:14-17; 1 Pet.
3:22); that Christ is waiting now until the completion of man's
probationary test in this age before He comes down from Heaven to
put down all rebellion on Earth (Acts 3:19-21; 1 Cor.15:24-28; 2
Thess.1:7-10; Rev.19:11-20:3; Zech.14:1-21); that God is now
schooling the principalities and powers in heavenly places in His
manifold wisdom by making an example of submission by an actual
demonstration of the church (Eph.3:1-11; 1 Cor.4:9; 11:10); that
some rebel angels are now bound in Hell awaiting judgment (2
Pet.2:4; Jude 6-7); that one-third of God's angels who rebelled
are now still loose with Satan carrying on rebellion against God
(Rev.12:3-12; Dan.10:13-21; Eph.6:10-18); that they will be
defeated ... and ... and then they will be cast into the pit for
a thousand years (Rev.12:3-14; 20:1-3; Isa.24:21-23); and that
they will be liberated for a little season at the end of the
Millennium to deceive men living then on Earth, and then they
will meet their final defeat and will be cast into the lake of
fire prepared for them (Rev.20:7-10; Matt.25:41; Isa.24:21-23).

These simple Biblical facts go far in helping us understand the
outcome of the angelic administration of the Earth and the
probationary period of Earth creatures before the flood of Gen.
1:2.

What means of reconciliation God gave the spirit beings and the
first rebels on the Earth is not known, but there must have been
such means, for God has always dealt with rebels in mercy and
longsuffering. This is His nature, and it would be contrary to
His own Being to have cut them off without some means of
reconciliation and without giving them a chance to lay down their
arms of rebellion. It must be remembered that spirit beings are
immortal in body, soul, and spirit and are not subject to
physical death ... so the result of their penalty could not have
been the same as was that of man in this respect. They will,
however, be tormented ... forever ...

It must also be remembered that the Bible is not a book that
deals specifically with the administration of the angels, their
rebellion, the means of their reconciliation, if any, and all
about their former relation to God, or with the extent to which
they will suffer degrees of punishment. The Bible is a book
revealing the origin of all things, including the angels and man,
but it primarily deals with man and his rebellion and his future
in the plan of God. In the Bible, as we have seen above ....
there are hundreds of references to spirit beings, their origin,
fall, present work, future destiny, and many other things. These
things are made clear concerning spirit beings because of their
part in furthering the plan of God for man.

11. THE KINGDOM OF GOD OVER ALL - GOD ALL-IN-ALL

After the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all
things therein ... the Kingdom of God was universal, and God was
all-in-all without one creature lifting up a finger of rebellion
against Him. Everyone was willingly subject to His sovereign will
and was walking in perfect obedience to God and His moral law.
Each ruler and each of his subjects of every kingdom in the
universe was faithful in his personal responsibility and
consecrated to the highest good of being and of the universe. No
free moral agent acted from his own will in selfishness or apart
from the will of the Creator, and everything was in harmony and
perfection.

How long this condition remained is not known, and all
speculation is valueless. In the following points we shall prove
that rebellion started by the angelic ruler of the Earth who
conceived the idea and boldly attempted to carry out his plan to
dethrone God and become the supreme ruler of the universe. From
here on, the Bible reveals that the Earth has been made perfect
and inhabited two times; that, there have been two universal
rebellions on the Earth; and that the Earth has had two sinful
careers. It records two past curses on the Earth and reveals that
the Earth will be made new one more time; that righteousness
will dwell on Earth forever; and that God will become all-in-all
again, as he was before rebellion was started by Lucifer and Adam
(1 Cor.15:24-28; Rev.21-22; 2 Pet.3:13; Isa.65:17; 66:22-24).

EARTH'S FIRST SINFUL CAREER (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:1-14; Jer. 4:23-26;
Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-6)

III. MOSES' TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMIC WORLD

In Gen.1:2 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence
before the Spirit of God began to move (brood) upon the face of
the waters which covered the Earth. The conjunction "and" is used
to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2. These
acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as
independent verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in
these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of
the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original
perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed
all life n the Earth.

The word 'was' in verse 2 is from the Hebrew 'hayah,' which is a
verb 'to become,' not the verb 'to be.' It is translated became
67 times (Gen.2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex.4:3-4; Num.12:10;
etc.), 'becamest' (1 Chron.17:22; Ezek.16:8); 'came' and 'came to
pass' 505 times (Gen.4:3; 6:1,4; 11:2,5; etc.); 'become' 66 times
(Gen.3:22; 18:18; 48:19; etc.); 'come' and 'come to pass' 131
times (Gen.4:14; 6:13; 18:20; 27:40; etc.); and many times 'be'
in the sense of 'become' (Gen.1:3,6,9,14; 3:5; etc.).

The phrase 'without form' is from the Hebrew 'tohu' which means
waste, desolation, or confusion. It is translated 'waste' (Deut.
32:10); 'without form' (Gen.1:3, Jer.4:23); 'vain' (Isa.45:18; 1
Sam.12:21); 'confusion' (Isa.24:10; 34:11; 41:29); 'empty' (Job
26:7); 'vanity' (Isa.40:17,23; 44:9; 59:4); 'nothing' (Job 6:18;
Isa.40:17); and 'wilderness' (Job 12:24; Ps.107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and
what the condition of the Earth was in Gen.1:2. God did not
originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It
is definitely stated in Isa.45:18 that God did not create the
Earth 'tohu' (vain, or desolate), yet in Gen.1:2 the Earth was
'tohu.' If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it
must have been created, inhabited, and later became desolate.
Even the English verb 'was' proves that it had to become desolate
before it could be desolate.

The Hebrew word for 'void' is 'bohu' which means empty, ruin or
void. It is translated 'void' (Gen.1:2; Jer.4:23) and emptiness
(Isa.34:11). The Hebrew phrase 'tohu va bohu' (waste and ruin, or
desolate and empty) describes the chaotic condition of the Earth
since "the beginning" and before the six days of the
reconstruction of Gen.1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a
ruin or a waste. It became so because of sin, as we shall see.

We can read Gen.1:1-2 literally thus: "In the beginning [by
periods, ages] God created the heavens and the earth. And the
earth became waste and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness
was upon the face of the deep [the flood]. And the Spirit of God
moved [brooded] upon the face of the waters."

In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages
taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth
and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the
Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the
sun, moon, and stars ....

In these two verses alone we have the facts that in the dateless
past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars,
and then the Earth; that the heavens were created before the
Earth; that the heavens, the Earth, the waters, and the darkness
were all created before the Spirit began to brood over the
waters; and that these things were already in existence before
the first of the six days, proving that they were not created in
any one of those days.
How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty
since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in
existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is
not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate and
empty is known and clearly revealed in Scripture, as we shall see
below. In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing
consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of
judgment and never of an act of creation, unless it be
Gen.1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this
is an exception. Why could not Gen.1:2 be a result of a curse,
as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth as
revealed in Gen.6-8; Ex.10:21-23; Isa.5:30; 13:10; Jer.
4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph.1:15; Joel 2:30-3:16; Matt 8:12;
9:2; 16:10).

TO BE CONTINUED
 

 

PERMISSION IS GIVEN to copy, publish, email, and distribute all studies that contain my name as written and/or compiled by myself. I have NO copyright on my study articles. I trust that nothing will be changed (except for spelling and punctuation errors) without my consent. Thank you. Please excuse and bear with me in spelling, punctuation, and other errors. I will try to correct them as time permits. May the Eternal God guide you into all truth as you live by and study His wonderful word.

 

http://www.keithhunt.com/Devlsin1.html

[HAZARD]

Lucifer sins - World under Water #2

 

How the earth became covered with water - Gen.1:2

 

 

LUCIFER'S REBELLION BEFORE ADAM AND A THIRD OF THE ANGELS GO WITH HIM by Finis Dake REBELLION AND OVERTHROW OF THE FIRST SOCIAL SYSTEM (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; Ezek 28:11-17; 2 Pet 3:5-6) Part Two IV. ISAIAH'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD In Isa. 14:12-14 we have conclusive proof that Lucifer ruled the Earth before the days of Adam. It could not have been since Adam that he ruled and fell from Heaven as in this passage, for he was already a fallen creature before Adam was created. In Adam's day he regained dominion of the Earth and has been the prince of this world ever since. In this passage both Satan and the king of Babylon are in view. This is what is known as the law of double reference, that is, a visible person is immediately addressed while at the same time an invisible person who is using the visible person as a tool to hinder the plan of God is also addressed. For example, when Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou art an offense to me: for thou sayest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matt.16:23), He did not mean that Peter was the personal devil, but that he was being used as a tool of Satan to keep Christ from getting to the cross. Hence, both Peter and Satan are addressed and involved in the statement. To understand such passages, one should understand that part of the passage that can refer to an earthly person as referring to a man, and that part that cannot possibly refer to an earthly person as referring to the invisible person also addressed. In Isa.14:12-14 we have some statements which cannot possibly be made of an earthly king of Babylon. The passage is universally accepted as referring to the fall of Satan. We shall quote it and then note the facts: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I WILL ascend into heaven, I WILL exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Note the following facts this passage proves of Satan: 1. That his name is Lucifer. 2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man. 3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18). 4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall. 5. That he had weakened nations on Earth. 6. That he was exalted in his heart. 7. That he invaded Heaven, where God rules. 8. That he was a king, for he had a throne and subjects over whom he ruled. 9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God. 10. That he wanted to be worshipped in the congregation (Ps.72:1; 82:1; Isa. 6:1). 11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated. 12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth, for one can stand on certain parts of the Earth and still be above clouds. 13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created. 14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. He had no kingdom on Earth at the time of Adam and has not had since in the sense of a visible, personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam. 15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them. 16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Ps. 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam. In Col.1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were all destroyed when the flood of Gen.1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Is.45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passage.... Thus Isaiah teaches that the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whose kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled. V. EZEKIEL'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD In Ezek.28:11-17 we have another description of Lucifer before he fell and of his position on Earth and the cause of his rebellion. This passage is another example of the law of double reference, as explained in Point IV above. The earthly man addressed was the king of Tyre. (See Josephus, Apion Book 1, 21). Let us also quote this passage and then note the main facts concerning Satan. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering .... the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou has walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of them that behold thee" (Ezek.28:11-19). Note the following facts this passage proves of Satan: 1. That he was full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 2. That he had been in Eden, THE GARDEN OF GOD, not a mere summer residence of some earthly king of Tyre, but the garden of God as referred to in other passages (Isa.51:3; Ezek.31:9,16,18; 36:35; Joel 2:3). This Eden, however, was the one that was on the original Earth before Adam, for "every precious stone" was not the covering of Satan, nor was he perfect and sinless and the ruling cherub when he was in Adam's Eden. It was the garden that God made as the location of Lucifer's kingdom as pictured in this whole passage. 3. That he was the ruler of this Eden, for at that time "every precious stone was thy covering . . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth [protecteth]; and I have set thee so . . . Thou wast perfect in thy ways." This must refer to the time Lucifer fell, and that had to be before Adam and the Eden that man was given dominion over. 4. That he was a created being; so it could only refer to Satan. 5. That he was the anointed cherub (angel) that protected or ruled the Earth. 6. That God had placed him in this position. 7. That every precious stone was his covering. 8. That his position was upon the holy mountain of God and that he walked up and down in the midst of precious stones of fire. 9. That he was perfect in his ways from his creation until he exalted himself, as in this passage and in Isa.14:12-14; 1 Tim. 3:6. 10. That he was created a perfect, sinless angel. 11. That he became a sinner through pride (1 Tim.3:6). 12. That his beauty was the cause of his pride. 13. That sin was found in him. 14. That he became filled with violence by his "merchandise" (Hebrew, traffic, as in verse 18, that is, going about as a slanderer in a moral sense. He began to accuse God and get others to rebel with him). 15. That he was cast out of the mountain of God in the garden where he had his throne and was driven out of his position and glory. 16. That his wisdom was corrupted. 17. That he was cast down to the ground, as in Isa.14:12-14; Luke 10:18. This will also be done in the future tribulation when he will be on Earth .... and then will be put in the abyss at the second coming of Christ (Rev. 12:3-14; 19:11-20:3). In the Hebrew such statements as "I will cast thee as profane" and "I will cast thee to the ground" are literally, "I profaned thee" and "I did cast thee to the ground." They must be understood in the past tense to harmonize with the rest of the passage, thus proving that this could not be the then - reigning king of Tyre. It could only refer to Lucifer, as in Isa.14:12-14; Luke 10:18. If this be true, then there were "kings" (probably spirit angel kings or governors over certain functions on the earth at the time of Lucifer's rebellion - Keith Hunt) on the Earth that beheld him when he landed on the ground and before God totally destroyed everything by the flood of Gen.1:2 18. That he had sanctuaries (a sanctuary, according to many ancient manuscripts), which he defiled by his iniquities and slander. This suggests a long and bitter feud between God and Satan before God took action to remove him from his position and curse the Earth. Satan was bitter in his slander of God and no doubt accused God of being tyrannical and unjust in all His rule over ... agents. He no doubt accused God of all the things that he still accuses Him of ... God was longsuffering; but when the final invasion of Heaven took place, God quickly put down the rebellion. 19. That Lucifer was brought down to utter defeat and humiliation to the Earth. The fire devouring Satan and bringing him to ashes on the Earth is a figurative statement of absolute defeat and humiliation. The same figure of speech is used of Abraham and other living persons who did not become literal ashes (Gen.18:27; Job 13:12; 30:19; Ps.102:9; Isa.44:20; 61:3). When we know that the passage is talking of a spirit being that cannot be burned to ashes, then we have another reason why we must conclude that the language is figurative of humiliation, the chief principle of true Bible interpretation is: TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY WHEREIN IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE. WHEN THE LANGUAGE CANNOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY, THEN WE KNOW IT IS FIGURATIVE. Since we know that the language cannot be literally true of a spirit being, then it must taken in a figurative sense. If the language is literal, then this part of the double reference refers to the king of Tyre who is the visible person addressed. The other statements above could be used only of an angel, for no king of Tyre ever was a cherub, a created being; and not one of them ever was in Eden, as stated of this created being in Ezekiel 28:11-17. No such king ever was a "cherub that covereth." The Hebrew word for covereth is 'sakak,' meaning to entwine, fence in, protect, defend, or hedge in, thus showing that Lucifer had a responsibility in protecting and ruling over the Eden and mountain of God in this passage. The Hebrew phrase 'har ha' Elohim' occurs seven times in Scripture and always of a literal earthly mountain, thus proving Lucifer's rule for God was on Earth and on a mountain that God had established as the capital of the Earth when He gave Lucifer dominion to rule for God (Ex.3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8; Ps.69:15; Ezek.28:16). See also passages where 'par Jehovah,' the mount of the Lord, is found, which also is used seven times of an earthly mountain (Gen.22:14; Num.10:33; Ps.24:3; Isa.2:3; 30:29; Micah 4:2; Zech. 8:3). 20. That these facts could refer only to Satan before the days of Adam, for he did not have this position when Adam was created, nor could these facts be true of him on the Earth since he regained dominion of the Earth through Adam. Ezekiel, therefore, teaches that Lucifer had a kingdom on Earth .... ............ In this section Drake tries to use Jeremiah 4:23-27, to prove a the same as Isaiah and Ezekiel, but this passage has nothing at all to do with the "world before Adam" - it is only a vision that Jeremiah had of the coming desolation and captivity of the house of Judah. So I leave all this out of the study. TO BE CONTINUED

[HAZARD]

 

Lucifer sins - World under Water
#3

 

The end of the first age -
Gen.1:2

 

 

Part Thee by Finis Dake (1949) V11. JESUS' TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD Not only does the Old Testament teach that there that was was a social order on Earth that was destroyed before Adam, but many Scriptures reveal the same fact. Jesus in Matt.13:35 used an expression, "from the foundation of the world," which literally means, "from the overthrow of the world." The Greek word for world here is 'kosmos.' It means social system or social world, order, arrangement, and is the opposite of chaos (vain), which God did not create (Isa.45:18), but which was the condition of the Earth in Gen.1:2. The word foundation in various New Testament passages comes from two Greek words as follows: 1. The noun 'themelios' and the verb 'themelioo' are the ordinary words for a foundation of a literal building, or of an organization, or of the work of some person, as it is clear in Matt.7:25; Luke 6:48-49; 1 Cor.3:11; Eph.2:20; Heb.6:1. 2. The noun 'katabole' and its corresponding verb 'kataballo' are not the ordinary words for foundation as they are translated sometimes in the New Testament. This much is clear from the subject matter where these words are found. For example, 'katabolo' literally means to throw down or cast down and is so translated in 2 Cor.4:9; Rev.12:10. In Heb.6:1 instead of "not laying again the foundation," the rendering should be "not casting down the foundation" that is already laid, but leave it and go on to perfection. Accordingly, the noun 'katabole,' derived from the verb, should be translated 'disruption' or 'ruin,' and this should be the meaning of foundation in Matt. 13:35; 25:34; Luke 11:50; John 17:24; Eph.1:4; Heb.4:3; 9:26; 11:11; 1 Pet.1:20; Rev.13:8; 17:8. The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences, except Heb. 11:11, the word is connected with 'kosmos,' the social world. The expression "foundation of the world" then should be translated, "the disruption," "ruin," or "overthrow of the world," since it clearly refers to the overthrow of the social world over which Lucifer ruled, and which was destroyed by the flood, as referred to in Gen.1:2; 2 Pet.3:5-7; Ps.104:5-9; Jer.4:23-27; Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek.28:11-17; etc. In Gen.1:1 we have the founding (Greek, 'themehoo,' Heb.1:10) of the world, but in Gen.1:2 we have the overthrow (Greek, 'katabole') of the world, as in the passages below. "The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the ages and dispensations - between the dateless past when Lucifer ruled the Earth and the present time when man is given dominion of the Earth, or between the dispensation or administration of the Earth by angels and the dispensation or administration of the Earth by man. Note the following expressions before and since the disruption of the world. We read of God loving His Son, of choosing men in Christ, and of Christ being foreordained "before the disruption of the world" (John 17:24; Eph.1:4; 1 Pet.1:2). We also read of things kept secret, of God planning a kingdom, of prophets being slain, of a book of life being prepared, of the work of the six days, and of Christ suffering in death only once "since the disruption of the world" (Matt.13:35; 25:34; Luke 11:50; Heb.4:3; 9:26; Rev. 13:8; 17:8). Thus Christ taught, as recorded by the Holy Spirit through Matthew, Luke, and John, that there was a disruption or ruin of the social order on the Earth. He mentioned such a doctrine four times while on Earth (Matt.13:35; 25:34; Luke 11:50; John 17:24), and twice to John on Patmos after He had ascended to Heaven (Rev.13:8; 17:8). He could not have had in mind the partial destruction of the social system in the days of Noah, for no change in God's plan was made at that time, as would be required if the expression "disruption of the world" referred to Noah's time. What was planned according to Matt.13:35; 25:34; etc., was planned at or before the six days work of Gen.1. The Bible says, "known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world" (Acts 15:18). The word 'world' in this passage is from 'aionios,' which means eternity, or the dateless past, time out of mind. It should be literally, "from eternity are all the works of God known." The things Christ uttered that were kept secret since the disruption of the world could not refer to Noah's food; so they must refer to the disruption of Gen.1:2. At least these facts prove that the world was disrupted and ruined before Adam, for it has been ruined since Adam, and it was in ruin in Gen.1:2 before Adam was created. If it was ruined before Adam, then there was a social order on the Earth to be disrupted. (I think Drake has a very valid point here. As he will say later, but I'll say it now, there are THREE huge events that this earth is to experience in the plan of God. The FIRST event was the destruction and overthrow of the world BEFORE Adam was created, a world ruled by Lucifer and other angels, a social structure, but one of angels beings on earth. This was also when the great Dinosaurs and some great gigantic plants and flying creatures had domain of the earth, on the physical side of that social structure. This was all destroyed and the earth covered with water, when Lucifer and one third of the angels rebelled against God and there was a cosmos battle - maybe a good part of the universe had its "star wars." Then we have the RE-FORMING of the earth and the creation of all that we read about in Genesis chapter one. The second HUGE event for this earth will be the coming of Jesus in POWER and GLORY back to earth, and the WONDERFUL 1,000 year reign, where so much will be RESTORED and changed all over the earth. The last and THIRD huge event for the earth will be the burning up of the surface of this earth and the creation of the New earth and New heaven, and the coming of God the Father and the heavenly Jerusalem, that we read about in the last two chapters of Revelation. I believe Finis Dake is correct in the understanding of this. I do indeed see the Bible verses we have studied so far in this series, teaching what I have just outlined above - Keith Hunt) VIII. PETER'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD In 2 Pet.3:6-7 we have a definite statement that there was a social world before Adam, which is called, "the world that then was." The Greek word for world is 'kosmos,' meaning social system. This social order had to be before this one we now know, or it could not be called "the social order that then was." That it was one which existed before our social order since Adam, is clear from the next statement about "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW." The two statements, "the world THAT THEN WAS" and "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW" prove there were two separate social systems on Earth. One was BEFORE the one WHICH IS NOW, and the other, AFTER the one THAT THEN WAS. If it can be definitely proved that "THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS" refers to a social order on Earth before the present heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW, then it would be forever settled that there were inhabitants before Adam. (Yes, inhabitants of the Dinosaurs and spirit angels and creatures, with Lucifer as their captain - Keith Hunt). We submit the following points to prove that it refers to a social order on Earth before Adam: 1. THAT IS WHAT 2 PET.3:6-7 SAYS. It could not be expressed more clearly in human language than it is here, "By the word of God the heavens WERE OF OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. Whereby the world [social order] THAT THEN WAS [of old, and BEFORE the heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW], being overflowed with water perished: But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW [AFTER the world THAT THEN WAS], by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." Why should one close his mind to such plain language? How could one misunderstand such simple statements of two worlds - the one THAT THEN WAS and the one THAT NOW IS? 2. If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now" since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noah's flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noah's time no change was made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. The Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it. 3. If "the heavens and the earth WHICH ARE NOW" could be proved to be the same as "the world THAT THEN WAS" merely because we do not want to believe that there was a social order before Adam, then on the same basis we could prove that the present heavens and the Earth will be exactly the same as the future New Heavens and the New Earth of 2 Pet.3:13. All we have to do to make them the same is to have the mere desire to make them the same, and say they are the same. If wonders can be accomplished this easily, we could do many other super acts by the mere desire and by human words. If mere belief in one case could change facts, then it could in the other. 4. There are three distinct and separate periods of the history of the Earth according to 2 Pet.3:5-13: first, "the world [social order] THAT THEN WAS" before the heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW (vv. 6-7); second, "the heavens and the earth WHICH ARE NOW," which are after "the world THAT THEN WAS and before the "new heavens and a new earth" that will be (vv.5-7, 13); third, "we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness," which are after "the heavens and the earth WHICH ARE NOW," which in turn was after "the world THAT THEN WAS" (vv.5-7,13). Thus there were and are to be THREE social systems: first, the one before Adam: second, the one between Adam and the New Heavens and the New Earth; third, the one in the New Heavens and the New Earth. 5. Peter taught that there were two ends to two sinful careers of the Earth: first, "the world THAT THEN WAS." There must have been a sinful career of that social system, or it would not have been destroyed by water to make room for the present one; second, the end of the present sinful career of the Earth, for the present heavens and the Earth "are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (2 Pet.3:7). If the destruction of the world THAT THEN WAS is the same destruction by fire in the future; there could not have been a social system which has already perished by water as stated here. So the destruction by water in the past and the destruction by fire in the future proves that two times the Earth has been made perfect and inhabited, and that two times the Earth has had sinful careers. The third time the Earth will be made perfect is when the New Heavens and New Earth are made. There will be a continued social system in them, for Peter added, "wherein dwelleth righteousness." 6. If we believe that the flood that destroyed the world THAT THEN WAS is the same flood that partly destroyed the present social system in Noah's day, we will have to believe several false doctrines as follows: (1) That man was created at the time of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in the dateless past instead of in the six days of Gen.1, for scoffers referred to in 2 Pet. 3, believed that there was no disruption of the world, since, they say, "all things" continue the same since creation. (2) That God created the heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW at the time of the flood, for if the world THAT THEN WAS referred to the people between Adam and Noah, then there would have had to be a creation of the present heavens and the Earth in Noah's day to make "the heavens and the earth WHICH ARE NOW." (3) That the first life on the earth was created about 6,000 years ago. (4) That scoffers believed that man was created at the time of the flood, for they say, "since the fathers fell asleep [beginning of the race and death in the race] all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" (2 Pet.3:4). (5) That we are just as ignorant as the scoffers who think that the heavens were created at the time the fathers began to fall asleep (2 Pet.3:4-5 ). (6) That the social system that was created in Adam's day was totally destroyed by the flood of Noah, for all of it "perished" by water (2 Pet. 3:6). (7) That there is a difference between the social order on the Earth between Adam and Noah and the one that has existed since Noah. But there is no such difference, for Noah's family lived both before and after the flood, and there was no difference between them in the two periods. (8) That Peter did not make it clear which flood he refers to, the one in Gen.1:2 or the one in Gen.6-8. But always, without exception, he makes it very clear when he refers to the flood of Noah (1 Pet.3:20; 2 Pet.2:5). Since in 2 Pet.3:6 he states that all the social system THAT THEN WAS perished by water, we have to conclude that he is not speaking of the flood of Noah. Surely scoffers would not be so ignorant as to believe that all the social system perished in Noah's flood; else they themselves would not be here to scoff unless God had made a new social order in Noah's day. (9) That scoffers were totally ignorant of Noah's flood, for they were ignorant of the one that destroyed the social system THAT THEN WAS. Peter makes it very clear that last day scoffers would be willingly ignorant of that destruction (2 Pet.3:4-6). This therefore could not refer to Noah's flood, for all scoffers know of it. The Greek word for 'ignorant' in 2 Pet. 3:5 and 8 is 'lanthano,' translated elsewhere 'hid' and 'hidden' (Mark 7:24; Luke 8:47; Acts 26:26) and 'unawares' (Heb.13:1). This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original social system was hidden from them, while they all know about Noah's flood. What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it is the destruction of a social world before Adam? This is the thing of which men are still ignorant, or we would not have to take so much time and space to get men to realize this truth of the Bible. Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth, thus showing that it is a clear doctrine of Scripture if men would decide to stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make such a doctrine clear; so "if any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed it (1 Cor.14:38). Peter said these scoffers of the last days would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again - the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the Earth to its third perfect state; and that God was as longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but that all come repentance. That there was a great catastrophe that came upon the pre-Adamite world is clear from many Scriptures as well as from facts of geology, botany, and other sciences. Scientists assert that the Earth went through JUST ONE great catastrophe; an unknown period in the past; that animal remains show that they died in great agony; and that some unexplainable something happened to the Earth itself to cause it to be turned upside down. In the Ferrar Fenton translation, Gen.1:2 reads, "the earth was [became] unorganized and empty; and darkness covered its convulsed surface; while the breath of God rocked the surface of the waters." This shows the Earth went through a period of convulsions, spasms, eruptions, earthquakes, and a great cataclysm that destroyed all animal and vegetable life on Earth. Accounts of the flood of Noah and the flood of Lucifer are so dissimilar that we must believe there were two great floods on the Earth. In Ps. 104:5-10 we have a vivid description of the destruction of the social world before Adam and of the restoration of the Earth out of that flood. First the flood is described as having come upon the Earth after the foundations of the Earth were laid, and the waters are described as standing above the mountains. Then the passage tells how the flood was taken off the Earth so it could be inhabited again. The only other reference Peter makes to the pre-Adamite world is in 1 Peter 1:20, and here he speaks of Christ as being foreordained BEFORE the foundation (overthrow or disruption) of the world. This could never refer to the flood of Noah. Thus we see that Peter taught that there was a social system before Adam that was overflowed by water and perished. CONTRAST BETWEEN THE FLOOD OF LUCIFER AND NOAH'S FLOOD 1. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2....) a. Earth not made waste (Gen.8:11,12,22; Heb.11:7; 1 Pet.3:20) 2. Earth made empty (Gen.1:2....) a. Not made empty (Gen.6:18-22; 8:16). 3. Earth made totally dark (Gen.1:2-5....) a. Not made totally dark (gen.8:6-22). 4. No light from heaven (Gen.1:2....) a. Light from heaven (Gen.8;6-22). 5. No day and night (Gen.1:2-5). a. Day and night (Gen.8:1-22). 6. All vegetation destroyed (Gen.1:2; 2:5-6....) a. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen.8:11,21; 9:3,20). 7. No continued abating of the waters of the earth (Gen.1:6-12). a. Continual abating of the waters of the earth by evaporation (Gen.8:1-14). 8. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen.1:10). a. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen,8:1-14). 9. Supernatural work of taking waters off the earth (Gen.1:6-12; Ps 104:7). a. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen.8:1-14). 10.No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen.1:6-12; Ps.104:7). a. No rebuke or miraculous work in taking waters off the earth (Gen.8:1-14). 11.The waters on earth in Gen.1:2 hasten away when rebuked (Gen.1:6-12; Ps.104:9). a. The waters on the earth gradually receded in Gen.8:1-14. 12.God set bounds around the waters in Gen.6:1-12; Ps.104:9. a. The bounds were already eternally set for waters in Gen.8:1- 14. 13.All fish were totally destroyed in the flood of Gen.1:2.... a. No fish were destroyed or created again after Noah's flood (Gen.1:20-23; 6:18-22). 14.No fowls left on earth after (Gen.1:2.... a. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen.6:20; 8:7-17). 15.No animal left after (Gen.1:2; ...2 Peter 3:5-6). a. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen.6:20; 8:17; 9:2-4,10-16). 16.No man(creatures - Keith Hunt) left on earth in Gen.1:2....2 Peter 3:5-6. a. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen.6:18; 8:15- 22; 9:1-16; 1 Peter 3:20). 17.No social system left at all in Gen.1:2....2 Peter 3:5-6. a. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen.8:15-22; 9:1-16; 1 Peter 3:20). 18.No ark made to save men in Gen.1:2;....2 Peter 3:5-6. a. An ark was made to save and animals alive (Gen.6:8-8:22; 9:1- 16; Heb.11:7). 19.Cause: fall of Satan (Isa.14:12-14....Ezek.28:11-17; Luke 10:18). a. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen.6:5-13); and fallen angels ...(Jude 6-7; 2 Peter 2:4). 20.Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen.1:3- 2:25; Isa.45:18; Eph.3:11). a. Result: no new creations made for men and animals were not destroyed (Gen.6:18-8:22; 9:1-16). IX. PAUL'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD In Eph.1:4; Heb.4:3; 9:26, we have Paul's references to the overthrow of the world THAT THEN WAS before Adam. In this first reference he teaches that even as far back as before the foundation (Greek, 'katabole,' from 'katabollo,' to throw down, overthrow, disrupt, or ruin) of the world ('kosmos,' social order), God planned To restore the Earth and provide redemption through Christ, should the new creation fail. According to this plan of redemption outlined in Eph.1:1-14, we have revealed that God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings, chosen us in Christ to be holy, predestinated us to be adopted as children, made us accepted in the beloved, redeemed and forgave us by the blood of Christ, abounded toward us in all wisdom, made known to us His will, gave us an inheritance, and sealed us unto the day of redemption. In the second reference (Heb.4:3) we have one of the strongest statements in Scripture that the six days work of Gen.1:3-2:25 was "since the foundation [disruption] of the world." It plainly states that God did His works and that they were finished since the overthrow of the world. The works referred to could not be the original creation of the heavens and the Earth of Gen.1:1, but the six-days work Of Gen.1:3-2:25, for the passage says, "God did rest the seventh day from his works" (Heb.4:3-4). If the works in this passage mean the six-days work and not the original creation of Gen.1:1, and if these works were "finished" since the disruption of the world, then the passage proves that before the six days there was a world or social order on the Earth to be destroyed. In the third passage (Heb.9:26) we have the fact that Christ did not suffer many Times "since the foundation [disruption] of the world" or social system that lived before this disruption, but that He suffered only once "in the end of the world ages," to put away the sin of the second social order on Earth. That is, Christ Came to redeem the present earth-rebels, who were created since the overthrow of the first earth-rebels. (Which were angel beings and Lucifer - Keith Hunt). X. JOHN'S TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMITE WORLD In Rev.13:8; 17:8 we have statements that the book of life was prepared "since the foundation [disruption] of the world." There would have been no need of the book of life for the present earth-rebels until they rebelled. Now, since the fall, anyone who conforms to the processes of redemption has his name written in it (Ex.32:32-33; Ps.69:28; Dan.12:1; Luke 10:20; Phil.4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:11-15; 21:27; 22:19). Rev.13:8; 17:8 do not teach that the names of men are written in the book BEFORE they are saved, as some teach, but that a book of life was prepared as far back as "since the overthrow of the world" that lived before Adam. Each person has his name written in the book of life when he is born again (begotten again - Keith Hunt)of the Word of God and the Spirit of God, and goes through the process of adoption (actually 'sonship' - way more than adoption - Keith Hunt) as a child into the family of God. Names can be blotted out of the book according to Ex.32:32-33; Ps.69: 5-28; Rev.3:5. So don't let any man be deceived into thinking that this is impossible. You can see for yourself what these passages say. If they do not mean what they say, then they are false; but if they mean what they say, then they are true; so believe them rather than any man. If the book of life was prepared "since the overthrow of the world," and if it has been in existence all the time since Adam's creation, there must have been a social world that lived holy for a time, and then rebelled and was overthrown, before this present human social system. We conclude, therefore, that since Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and others taught that there was a social world before Adam, there must have been one; so it is just as easy to believe as anything else in the revealed Word of God. ............. Yes, I must say that for me Drake gives enough Scriptural proof to prove that Lucifer the "covering cherub" once ruled this earth, and at some point in past time (not told us) he, with one third of the angels REBELLED against the rule and ways and commandments and love of the Godhead. There was then a star wars war, Lucifer tried to break through into heaven and de-throne the Godhead, but he was beaten back, thrown down, back to earth as lightening, and the physical creatures and all physical matter on earth was destroyed and the whole globe was covered with water. Then God's Spirit moved upon the face of the waters and said......Genesis 1:3....The earth and heaven that NOW IS came into being in six literal days of creation, man and woman were created and God looked at it all and said it was GOOD. He then rested the SEVENTH day and BLESSED and SANCTIFIED it!! Entered on Keith Hunt's Website, August 2003

[Dennis1209]

On 12/25/2017 at 10:22 AM, Quasar93 said:

 

Your above opinion fails to support a young earth age whatever.  I have posted three or four articles with old age support and literal facts for an old age earth, in addition to that which comes directly from the Bible.  You'll have to come up with much better than that to debunk an old aged earth.  For example, take a look at Heb.1:1-2 where God created the UNIVERSE through Jesus.  In other words, keep in mind, the earth was created WITH the universe, not much later, separately.

Before the earth was flooded in the first of two global floods, in Gen.1:2:

Proverbs 8:22-29: "22 Lord[c][d]
    before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
    at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
    when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
    before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
    or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
    when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
    and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
    so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

[context ends in verse 36]

After the earth was flooded the first of two times, in Gen.1:2:

Ps.24:1 "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,

the world, and all who live in it;

2for he founded it on the seas

and established it on the waters."

2 Pet.3:5 "For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."

The second of the two global floods is recorded in Gen.7.

 

Quasar93

 

 

 

 

You know Quasar93,

With much study I lean toward the 'gap theory' myself, but I don't want to be dogmatic about it. I got to thinking, at the end, when my heart takes its last beat and I take my final breath, how important will that be to me? I'll be standing in line to ask Jesus millions of questions and this topic will be one of them. Good thing for eternity, because those behind me in line are going to have to wait that long before their turn 

 

 

[Devarim]

So I wasted an afternoon on this. Something happened. Call it what you want. So the big deal is???? This entire forum, which I have been on less than 24 hours comes across as a vast amount of vain disputings, meanness, arrogance, belittling, bullying and I am super disappointed. I will bow out n leave you all to your lecturing and pontificating about your knowledge and education.  Rebbe, Melech HaMashiach, Yeshoshua, Ben Dovid, Ben Avraham (or as most here like call Him, when He is actually mentioned, which is not too often, Jesus) said New Commandment: LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, LOVE YE ONE ANOTHER.