The Dark Side of Christianity

[TheMatrixHasU71]

39 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Even born-again people can be enticed through their lusts and fall......I knew of a Christian believer once who left her husband and four little girls behind to run off with another man, she was the wife of a relative of mine.  (She might have been rescued if her church had any inkling of how to talk to her, instead of ignoring the situation and just condemning her and writing her off.)   But even the angels in heaven can fall, like those ones who fell in the days of Noah.  We are even warned that those who have tasted of the heavenly gift, if they fall away cannot be redeemed.......fear of the Lord is a great ally in the good fight of faith and we cannot afford to be complacent and relax our guard because the devil doesn't relax and is always prowling seeking to devour those who follow the Lord.  Forwarned is forearmed.  I was tempted too at one point in my walk, but thankfully cried out to the Lord to keep me, and He did.  But nobody had told me how the devil doesn't play fair or how to fight the flames of hell when they lick at you, and this was many years after I got saved.....the churches just avoid embarrassing topics, they are too religious to deal with real life, and so sin just flourishes and comes to the full in the churches.  I even wonder if this is the fire/flames flames (lust) that everyone's work gets tested by......and that's why we hear of so many pastors falling.....and what we hear about is only the tip of the iceberg.

Born again people will make mistakes and fall into sin sometimes as this woman you mentioned did (how well, really, did you know this person?) but they will not fall away from the church. Remember the bible says that we shall know them by their fruits. If you have someone out there who claims to be born again and let still lives in sin then such a person is not saved to begin with. This is what I was getting at.

About those who have tasted the heavenly gift, same problem here. It usually refers to those who have heard the truth but have rejected it. Like the parable of the seed that falls on rocky ground or by the wayside.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Born again people will make mistakes and fall into sin sometimes as this woman you mentioned did (how well, really, did you know this person?) but they will not fall away from the church. Remember the bible says that we shall know them by their fruits. If you have someone out there who claims to be born again and let still lives in sin then such a person is not saved to begin with. This is what I was getting at.

About those who have tasted the heavenly gift, same problem here. It usually refers to those who have heard the truth but have rejected it. Like the parable of the seed that falls on rocky ground or by the wayside.

Matrix, let's take a look at that whole passage of scripture and see what comes to light......I bolded and capitalized some parts that seem to particularly indicate how this is talking about maturing believers rather than new believers who fall away right after hearing the word:

Hebrews 6:1-12

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, LET US GO ON UNTO PERFECTION; NOT LAYING AGAIN THE FOUNDATION of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.

FOR it is impossible for those WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,

And HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, if they shall FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which DRINKETH IN THE RAIN THAT COMETH OFT UPON IT, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

For God is not unrighteous to FORGET YOUR WORK AND LABOUR OF LOVE, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

And we desire that every one of you do shew THE SAME DILIGENCE TO THE FULL ASSURANCE OF HOPE UNTO THE END:

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

Now, this also agrees with the parable that Jesus told about the servant who said in his heart that "my master delayeth His coming" and began to eat and drink with the drunken and to smite his fellow servants......because he had gotten weary waiting for the Lord and fallen away, fallen back into the world.  It all seems to highlight a particular pitfall and temptation along the journey to perfection.  And this is why it also says elsewhere that we must ENDURE TO THE END.  Also where it says we must add to our faith PATIENCE (perseverance) because WE HAVE NEED OF IT.  Oh yes we do, and we find that out the longer we go on in the Lord.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Pudgenik]

On 12/26/2017 at 2:34 PM, DesertSW said:

I'm sorry, no offense to you, but I have heard this response 1,000x and it's hogwash.

That's the "go to" response for Christians behaving badly. The old tried and true, "well, they weren't Christians to begin with."

It's the "Escape" button that Christians press when the dilemma of Christians doing sinful and evil things comes up. But that's all it is, an excuse and a quick way to try and squash the problem.

The reality is that real Christians do sin and commit evil acts against other Christians. The reality is then Christians don't address the problem and run to the "they weren't Christians to begin with".

So even though a TRUE Christian served Christ and the church for 20 years, commits a sin and violates God's Word. Then the "Christians can't do no wrong" group comes out and throws that Christian under the bus and claims they weren't a true believer to begin with.

That response and belief should be rolled up and placed under a bird cage because that is where it belongs. The reality is Christians sin and do things that they shouldn't do. They hurt others and sin against people and God. To say otherwise is a disgrace and to put one's head in the sand.

 

 

My friend, this has to do the integrity of each person. Just because a person becomes a Christian doesn' mean it will change them. 

True that Christ can change us, but being a Christian is having a partnership with God. God doesn' force Himself for us to love Him. We have to want to love God. 

Love is an action, but if you smother if, take the flame of love and quench its fire. There is no flame, no act of love. No relationship with God. What then, you still have the name Christian, but it is only a word.

Being Christian is one who not only says they are, but lives it. Each day. You can read and study till the cows come home. But being Christian is more than that. Love is alive in us. Love is Christ. Love is God. Uncover the light of Christ for all to see. Being Christian is living in Christ daily, and having His love flow through you.

[Mike Mclees]

 Jesus said if a man takes up the plow and looks back he cannot enter the kingdom.

Jesus warns us to never look back. As with this servant who,s faith was week he went back to his old sinful life. He lost his salvation. This is not a simple case of having a weakness that you struggle with. Those who are true come to Christ for forgiveness and strives to stay the course.  It's all in ones attitude. Fear the Lord is to Love Him. The evil servant was not repentant so he lost his salvation. It was a warning

This brings up your prayer life. Do we find time to pray daily in your private place. Jesus is waiting for you there.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Guest shiloh357]

On 12/26/2017 at 1:14 PM, DesertSW said:

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith.

There is no dark side to Christianity.  What you describe isn't Christianity.   It's the darkness of the sinful nature of man.

[Guest shiloh357]

On 12/26/2017 at 1:14 PM, DesertSW said:

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

 

Christians are flawed people and all of us are at different stages in our walk with Christ.   All of us have drawbacks to our personalities.   That's the reality of the matter.   That doesn't excuse sin, but there  will be conflicts in Churches.  It was true of churches in Paul's day and it is true of churches today.   People walk into churches with really high expectations and they forget that churches are made up of forgiven sinners who are still on the journey toward being more like Jesus.   And they often fail, just like so many of us fail.

 

[DesertSW]

Christianity is made up of flawed Christians. When I stated the dark side, I was referring to the flawed Christians of which it is composed with. Christianity as designed by God, is not flawed, the people of which it composes of, are flawed.

I've been betrayed by unbelievers, many times, when it happens there is an initial shock but then it wears off quickly as I realize that this is quite normal for unsaved people. It's when saved believers who you loved and trusted, do something to betray you, then to add further insult, they refuse Godly healing, Godly counseling and restoration and choose secular answers and secular logic. That is what shocks and hurts the most.

We all do things to sometimes offend & hurt someone. The difference is when after the offense, you have repentance and seek to never repeat that again. I've said things to Christians that I later regret. I sought forgiveness and repentance and never repeated that again.

The problem is when Christians refuse repentance, refuse forgiveness and refuse to love that person once again and then go on to follow secular logic and secular ways instead of Godly ways.

[DesertSW]

I've discussed in depth about the betrayal that my ex-wife and her parents did to me and to God. Before then, I was betrayed by a Christian friend who now no longer goes to church and our friendship of 20 years has dissolved. That's 20 years of knowing and being close friends with, a business partner, a friend that I saw as my brother.

So to those who claim "get over it". I had a Christian wife of 12 years betray me. A Christian best friend of 20 years betray me. Christian In-laws of 12 years betray me. Then a Christian friend of 5 years who witnessed to me, betray me. On and on, a total of 10+ close and loving Christian people over the course of 25 years do that to me. It has affected me spiritually, physically, financially and mentally.

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, Butero said:

I would not tell you to just get over it.  I just question whether or not those people were really saved.  I feel like the answer is no.  They were likely Christians in name only.  

22 minutes ago, DesertSW said:

Christianity is made up of flawed Christians. When I stated the dark side, I was referring to the flawed Christians of which it is composed with. Christianity as designed by God, is not flawed, the people of which it composes of, are flawed.

I've been betrayed by unbelievers, many times, when it happens there is an initial shock but then it wears off quickly as I realize that this is quite normal for unsaved people. It's when saved believers who you loved and trusted, do something to betray you, then to add further insult, they refuse Godly healing, Godly counseling and restoration and choose secular answers and secular logic. That is what shocks and hurts the most.

We all do things to sometimes offend & hurt someone. The difference is when after the offense, you have repentance and seek to never repeat that again. I've said things to Christians that I later regret. I sought forgiveness and repentance and never repeated that again.

The problem is when Christians refuse repentance, refuse forgiveness and refuse to love that person once again and then go on to follow secular logic and secular ways instead of Godly ways.

Go and read about the true ecclesia. 

http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/col1v3prayerthanksgiving.html

"The apostle Paul was an encourager.

He began each of his letters with a prayer of thanksgiving and a petition for the recipients of his letters.

One of the most enlightening Bible studies is to take the recorded prayers of Paul and study them. They also make great petitions for our own Christian prayer life. Indeed, we can learn to pray a more meaningful prayer life by letting the apostle Paul be our model. We can grow in our spiritual life by praying Scripture thoughts and petitions to God.

Paul’s letter to the believers at Colossae begins with a prayer of thanksgiving and blends into several petitions for these Christians. With the exception of the letter to Galatians Paul begins each letter with thanksgiving and praise to God for what he is doing in the churches and individuals lives. We gain insight into his prayer life. This is the kind of person you want to be around."

[missmuffet]

The dark side of Christianity? Sounds like a statement from Satan.