The Dark Side of Christianity

[Pudgenik]

5 hours ago, DesertSW said:

I've discussed in depth about the betrayal that my ex-wife and her parents did to me and to God. Before then, I was betrayed by a Christian friend who now no longer goes to church and our friendship of 20 years has dissolved. That's 20 years of knowing and being close friends with, a business partner, a friend that I saw as my brother.

So to those who claim "get over it". I had a Christian wife of 12 years betray me. A Christian best friend of 20 years betray me. Christian In-laws of 12 years betray me. Then a Christian friend of 5 years who witnessed to me, betray me. On and on, a total of 10+ close and loving Christian people over the course of 25 years do that to me. It has affected me spiritually, physically, financially and mentally.

There is never a "getting over it". Those memories will be a part of your life, always. 

My heart aches for you of those memories.

Christianity as it should be, being in love with God. DEEPLY!!! And to love your neighbor as yourself. 

Forgiveness can be a tough road for some. It is stepping out in faith, taking that first breath after such an experience that you have described. To move forward. 

God's heart aches for you too!

Peace Always

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 1/2/2018 at 6:03 AM, Butero said:

What happens if you lose your faith?  True faith in Christ brings about a changed life.  That is why James says faith without works is dead.  A lot of people claim to have their faith in Christ, but the way they live shows they don't.  

Thanks for clearing that up.  That is an interesting take on the passage in 2 Corinthians.  Yes, we should be trying to restore sinful Christians that are willing to repent.  Was Paul speaking of the man that was turned over to Satan?  Perhaps he was.  I wonder about the woman he was committing fornication with.  Did she come to repentance?  

 

 

Butero.....According to McGee’s commentery,the woman was not a member of the Church, and he apparently was not concerned with her.....at least not at this time.....perhaps never.

[DesertSW]

2 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

There is never a "getting over it". Those memories will be a part of your life, always. 

My heart aches for you of those memories.

Christianity as it should be, being in love with God. DEEPLY!!! And to love your neighbor as yourself. 

Forgiveness can be a tough road for some. It is stepping out in faith, taking that first breath after such an experience that you have described. To move forward. 

God's heart aches for you too!

Peace Always

 Thanks for the kind words!

 

[ytLiJC]

On 12/26/2017 at 9:14 PM, DesertSW said:

Let me first start off with a disclaimer. I believe in the Word of God and in all the fundamental tenants of Christianity. I became a Christian back in 1993 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I gave up trusting in my good works and put all my faith in what Jesus had done on the cross, for my salvation.

The "dark side" I speak of is something that is not really talked about or discussed in churches. I've attended all types of protestant churches in the past 25 years (Baptist, denominational, non-denominational) and not one really discussed this aspect of Christianity. It is factually evident and not just experiential, although I have personally experienced it, it is backed by factual evidence.

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith. I've personally experienced 10 of those betrayals over the course of 25 years. The latest one which was my wife, and her parents, was the most devastating. You can read about it here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/211844-my-marriage-divorce-testimony/

It would take quite a bit of typing to go into deep detail on these betrayals but all of them involved true Believers who ended up betraying and hurting me in such ways that left deep scars that will never go away. These betrayals involved lying, breaking promises, breaking vows/covenants, leaving the faith/church, disobeying tenants of the faith and sinning against God and breaking clear Biblical tenants, church splits and behavior that would make unbelievers blush.

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

If we are honest, then we should put out a disclaimer in the churches. Something like this should be in the doctrinal statement after all the major tenants of the faith are posted:

Having stated the above doctrinal positions, we want to clearly state that there are times when true believers and followers of the Christian faith will do things that will grieve and shock you, sin and dishonor God, His Word and even hurt other Christians in that process. This is part of the free will that God gives believers. Even though they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, believers will at times hurt you and sin against you and God. These incidents will really hurt you and rock you to the core as one believes that a Christian shouldn't act that way, which they shouldn't, but can and will act that way. Pastors will sin, wives & husbands will deceive & sin, brothers and sisters in Christ will lie, dishonor, sin and hurt you.

It is important to understand this facet of the Christian faith. To enter into the Christian faith thinking that other Christians can't or will not do such things is only setting up yourself for disappointment and shock. That might, in effect, make your faith stumble. So it is best that we as a church make this disclaimer that Christians can and will do these things. It is a sad but factual truth of the human being, even when indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that they will do these things. So it is best to be prepared when those incidents occur that it is not the Christian faith that failed, but that person who failed. They failed to follow God and His Word. Christians will disappoint you, sin against you and hurt you, please be prepared that this can and most likely will occur in your lifelong journey as a Christian.

 

unfortunately billions of people have been betrayed for the last centuries and millennia, moreover, not only by so-called christians but also by many other religious worshipers, and at the root of the problem has been the system of human/"beastly"(666) spirituality/religiosity, which is the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness - she has caused billions of people to be defiled, affected and afflicted with all kinds of defilements, deviations, disorders, diseases, corruptions and evils in general

Revelation 18:1-5 (WEY) "After these things I saw another angel coming down from Heaven, armed with great power. The earth shone with his splendor, and with a mighty voice he cried out, saying, "Great Babylon has fallen, has fallen, and has become a home for demons and a stronghold for every kind of foul spirit and for every kind of foul and hateful bird. For all the nations have drunk the wine of the anger provoked by her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through her excessive luxury." Then I heard another voice from Heaven, which said, "Come out of her, My people, that you may not become partakers in her sins, nor receive a share of her plagues. For her sins are piled up to the sky, and God has called to mind her unrighteous deeds."

Blessings

[Pudgenik]

11 hours ago, Davida said:

I see no where in the Bible where it says we are to be "in love" with GOD. That is a Hollywood concept & it has become part of the colloquial. I really rather dislike that term & think it describes a lower infatuation type feeling based affection and not the Love that the Bible teaches us to have. If todays Christians are falling in love with God , that might be the reason for the falling out of love and leaving mayhem in their wakes. I do not think true saved Christians are "in love" with God , I think the love experienced is far deeper & not based upon feelings. 

I also disagree that people can't heal from tragedy and emotional trauma. I have witnessed people get over their past experiences however heartbreaking they have been. There is always hope & victory with Christ.   Just my two cents.
 

Jesus tells us to be like Him. God is Love. For God so Loved the World that He gave His Son.

Paul tells us, faith without love is like a gong clanging in the wind.

He also states, faith hope and Love, and the greatest of these is Love.

Jesus tells us. Love God with your whole heart. With all your mind. 

[Pudgenik]

12 hours ago, Davida said:

I see no where in the Bible where it says we are to be "in love" with GOD. That is a Hollywood concept & it has become part of the colloquial. I really rather dislike that term & think it describes a lower infatuation type feeling based affection and not the Love that the Bible teaches us to have. If todays Christians are falling in love with God , that might be the reason for the falling out of love and leaving mayhem in their wakes. I do not think true saved Christians are "in love" with God , I think the love experienced is far deeper & not based upon feelings. 

I also disagree that people can't heal from tragedy and emotional trauma. I have witnessed people get over their past experiences however heartbreaking they have been. There is always hope & victory with Christ.   Just my two cents.
 

Healing from tragedy, certainly. But the memory of it stays. All those who ever fought in any war. The horrific memories, can never be totally forgotten. But the vets, all who survive them (the wars) must still walk forward to live.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

23 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

FOR it is impossible for those WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,

And HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, if they shall FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Here is something I found on Matthew Henry's commentary (and I have read this elsewhere too)

 He shows that this spiritual growth is the surest way to prevent that dreadful sin of apostasy from the faith. And here,1. He shows how far persons may go in religion, and, after all, fall away, and perish for ever, v. 4, v. 5. (1.) They may be enlightened. Some of the ancients understand this of their being baptized; but it is rather to be understood of notional knowledge and common illumination, of which persons may have a great deal, and yet come short of heaven. Balaam was the man whose eyes were opened (Num. 24:3 ), and yet with his eyes opened he went down to utter darkness. (2.) They may taste of the heavenly gift, feel something of the efficacy of the Holy Spirit in his operations upon their souls, causing them to taste something of religion, and yet be like persons in the market, who taste of what they will not come up to the price of, and so but take a taste, and leave it. Persons may taste religion, and seem to like it, if they could have it upon easier terms than denying themselves, and taking up their cross, and following Christ. (3.) 

 

This is not talking about genuine followers of Christ

[Heleadethme]

17 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Here is something I found on Matthew Henry's commentary (and I have read this elsewhere too)

 He shows that this spiritual growth is the surest way to prevent that dreadful sin of apostasy from the faith. And here,1. He shows how far persons may go in religion, and, after all, fall away, and perish for ever, v. 4, v. 5. (1.) They may be enlightened. Some of the ancients understand this of their being baptized; but it is rather to be understood of notional knowledge and common illumination, of which persons may have a great deal, and yet come short of heaven. Balaam was the man whose eyes were opened (Num. 24:3 ), and yet with his eyes opened he went down to utter darkness. (2.) They may taste of the heavenly gift, feel something of the efficacy of the Holy Spirit in his operations upon their souls, causing them to taste something of religion, and yet be like persons in the market, who taste of what they will not come up to the price of, and so but take a taste, and leave it. Persons may taste religion, and seem to like it, if they could have it upon easier terms than denying themselves, and taking up their cross, and following Christ. (3.) 

 

This is not talking about genuine followers of Christ

All due respect sister, I rather trust the illumination of the Holy Spirit over the thoughts of man trying to fill in what they don't understand.  That only serves to water down the warning rather than inspiring followers of Christ to take it seriously.  Not taking God and scripture seriously is one of the plagues of these last days that has led to the........falling away.

[Pudgenik]

16 hours ago, Davida said:

I see no where in the Bible where it says we are to be "in love" with GOD. That is a Hollywood concept & it has become part of the colloquial. I really rather dislike that term & think it describes a lower infatuation type feeling based affection and not the Love that the Bible teaches us to have. If todays Christians are falling in love with God , that might be the reason for the falling out of love and leaving mayhem in their wakes. I do not think true saved Christians are "in love" with God , I think the love experienced is far deeper & not based upon feelings. 

I also disagree that people can't heal from tragedy and emotional trauma. I have witnessed people get over their past experiences however heartbreaking they have been. There is always hope & victory with Christ.   Just my two cents.
 

Dear Davida, when I look at being in love with my God, I am not thinking in the valgur. The view you have chosen to call "love" in Hollywood is nothing but lust and total disregard of true affection.

When I think of my love for God, I go back to Jesus on the cross. Jesus says Abba. The correct translation is "daddy". To me it is more telling of the relationship between the Father and the Son than you will find in most of scripture. 

For those who have had a loving dad in thier lifetime, we can relate that to our relationship with God. For those who come from broken homes and all sorts of experience. The truth is still there, yet to be found. That God, "Daddy", His great love is beyond our own incomprehension. But it is each and everyone of us that is precious to Him

[Pudgenik]

3 hours ago, Butero said:

I think you are misunderstanding Davida's point, unless I took her wrong.  She is not saying we are not to love God.  She is pointing out that the term "in love" is dealing more with emotion.  The love we are to have for God is stronger than that.  It should remain, even when we aren't feeling God's presence all around us, or when God allows things to happen we don't like or understand.  If our love for God is emotion based, we will fall away.  

She is certainly able to speak for herself, so if I am taking her wrong, she can correct me on that, but that is how I took her comments.  

She is basing her understanding of love on the warped disgust of hollywood.  It is not what love is. Hollywood only teaches lust. Lust for self, lust for power and so on.

 

"Love God with your whole heart" there is nothing more.