The Dark Side of Christianity

[Pudgenik]

3 hours ago, Butero said:

This is probably the last time I will bother posting in this thread, but I felt the need to point something out.  Every time we have a discussion on unconditional eternal security break out, it always goes the same way.  People from each side have their favorite scriptures that prove they are right.  They seem to contradict each other.  One person will turn to Hebrews or 2 Peter to show you can lose salvation, and then the person on the other side, who has no real answers for them, pushes those scriptures aside and posts scriptures they believe point to unconditional eternal security.  Then the person on the other side shrugs them off and posts scriptures that seem to back up their belief.  When one is trying to come across smarter than the rest, they will often post Greek and Hebrew definitions.  I have news for you.  We all have a Greek and Hebrew Dictionary or access to one on-line.  

I found myself doing this.  I was posting all the scriptures that show you can lose salvation, and having those on the other side post scriptures they say show you cannot lose your salvation.  You can take or leave what I am going to tell you.  I am just sharing a personal experience.  The Bible states that God gave us the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, so I took this to him.  I shared how some scriptures seem to show you cannot lose your salvation and others seem to show you can.  I asked for divine truth.  I was startled by the answer I got, because it was simple.  I had just never considered it because it went against my personal feelings about fairness.  

God will keep those he has chosen to be saved.  He knew who they were before he created them.  He also knew the people that would not believe or would die lost before he created them.  He is the potter, and we are the clay.  He has created some as vessels of honor and some as vessels of dishonor.  The problem is, some have taken scriptures that reveal this truth and made them into a false doctrine where if you say a sinner's prayer, you are eternally secure, no matter what you do.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Nobody can pluck God's elect out of his hand, but there are many walking around believing they are one of those in his hand because of a trip to the alter, when they are not.  Those who are chosen of God to be saved will not turn away, but will serve him to the end.  If they do walk away for a time, they will come back before they die.  The prodigal was brought up.  At the beginning, he was saved, and a son of the Father, but when he went into the hog pen, he was dead and lost, and on his way to hell.  Had he not returned, he would have spent eternity in hell, even though he seemed to be saved at one time.  That was why there was such a celebration when he returned.  He that was lost and dead was found and alive again.  This shows that in the natural, you can be saved, lost, and saved again.  If you are of the elect, you will be saved when you die.  

I had rejected the idea of predestination and election because it seemed unfair.  I also find much of Calvin's teaches to be in error, and if you believe in predestination. you are automatically thought to be a follower of Calvin, and I am not.  I am a follower of the Holy Bible and what it teaches.  The issue of works and faith also went the same way, and when I sought God about that, it was rather simple too.  We are saved by faith, but true faith will lead us to do good works.  It is not works that save us, but faith, but true faith brings about a change in our lifestyle.  It is the same thing with walking in the flesh as opposed to walking in the Spirit.  That same book of Galatians being quoted by the eternal security crowd states that those who walk according to the flesh shall not inherit the Kingdom of God, and it lists examples of living after the flesh.  It says if you walk in the Spirit, you are not under the curse of the law, and gives us a list of fruit of the Spirit.  By that, we know if we are truly Spirit led.  It is not nearly as complicated as it seems, but what stopped me from getting it was personal biases.  That is what will keep most from ever fully coming to true understanding of scripture.  

With that, I leave you all to pick up your boxing gloves, and go back to taking your favorite scriptures you use to defend your position while ignoring those that contradict it, and fight it out, because I seriously doubt everyone will suddenly accept what I told you and come to full agreement.  In reality, you shouldn't just accept what I said or anyone said.  Seek God for the answer.  The Spirit he gave you when you were born again will lead you into the truth.  

I try never to post the scripture, where it is from. Even though I quote scripture often. 

But I will miss reading your words. Peace always, friend.

[JohnD]

Tradition based Christianity and will of man Bible interpretation.

The Church organization.

It misguides billions.

 

[JohnD]

The Church organism (which Christ died for) is not the Church organization (establishment industrial complex world religion), but individual believers who are the children of God the Father through adoption (Jesus is the only natural Son of the Father) making us priests of God each and every one of us. Bible says all this. The Church organization splits us into categories (clergy / laity), it discourages Holy Spirit interpreted Bible verified study of the Word of God preferring (demanding in some cases) we adhere to the traditional interpretations and practices. It demands we conform.

Today in Church Pastor Tommy used the "Lord's prayer" to bolster his point about forgiveness citing the after thought of the prayer "for if you forgive not those who trespass against you your heavenly Father will not forgive your trespasses..." and then later in Ephesians "forgive others as Christ forgave you..." 

I wanted to make the point of order, the passage (in Matthew) was to Old Testament disciples under the Old Testament Law. The New Testament begins at the cross. Hebrews 9:16-17.  Notice also in Ephesians the absence of our forgiving others having any bearing on God forgiving us.

But the Church organization dictates you sit in the pews shut up and never raise your hand for a point of order.

This is why I love love love going to sermons by preachers who have Q & A sessions afterwards.

You can maintain public speaking order (which is a must btw), but you can raise points of order afterward and the preacher is biblically accountable for what they preach.

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 1/6/2018 at 7:11 PM, simplejeff said:

 

 

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 

But these are people who have not fully accepted the truth, this is what I have been explaining

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:00 PM, simplejeff said:

"... no purpose."   Even the evil ones have purpose.  As written, "many anti-christs AMONG us"(teaching).

1 Corinthians 12:28 

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

[ScottA]

12 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

Well writen

I probably should have added, that "...when you meet Jesus and do likewise, or if you are already there still showing your old miserable self to the world, we are here to be your support group, and welcome you to do the same for us - we need you!"

[frienduff thaylorde]

17 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

I concur the dream represents the followers of the Beast, the Beast and Jesus. 

There are some things to add. 

One, not all people's of the world are involved. That means  some will not stand with the beast.

Two, there will be people from every religion. We should look at this as a warning. 

Three, the dark beast arises from within the group. (In this dream, I don't see this beast as the anti-Christ, but an ideology). You see where the dream reads "The people and it are of one mind, and they surround this beast with awe."

Four, where the dream says, "this beast", implies there are more than one beast. 

In Revelations, it talks of the Beast that comes out of the sea. I've often thought of that phrase as a "Sea Change". It is a term used to explain a great event. In this case public opinion. 911 was a sea change. WWII was a sea change and Theroy of Evolution was a sea change and so on.

Pay close heed.    The all inclusive mindset which all religions are beginning to join in,  WILL be the mindset that leads to the beast and its worship.

I agree not all will worship this beast .    But all who go under this mindset will be destroyed by CHRIST HIMSELF at HIS COMING.

Get the heck out of any churches that has its focus on world peace .GET OUT , GET OUT NOW .

the delusion is tied into this .   The peoples minds are being made ready for the beast and its solution for world peace .

Get OUT of any church that focuses on hugs and smiles ,BUT not one ounce of gravity , no sound doctrine.  

Pudgenik.    Listen closely, this monster , this evil spirit has been at work for some time now .    It destroyed from within many christain churches

with seeker friendly.   just ripped them up and they done for .     IF any comes saying we need to set aside differences and focus on unity.  GET THE HECK OUT

they KNOW what they doing , this spirit is wiser than any man women or child .   It cannot be defeated in the carnal realm.   ONLY those  TRULY in the LAMB

will be able to discern it as false.  ALL others in time , more and more will see it as love, peace , unity , feeling good ,  holding hands with who ever , and correctin nothing.

WE cannot have anything to do with this wicked spirit.     Its leading the world right to  the worship of the beast . 

ISIS, is a pebble, its a joke compared to this .    Satan uses ISIS to do his work,  he uses terrorism to do his work

and all the while he uses many with this all inclusive world peace as the solution .    Satan is the one running both sides .  He created the divisions and hate

and he is brining the solution .  BUT the solution will allow the world as one to hand over all authority to this beast .     We running out of time.

ITS a sham.    this world peace , interfaith , all inclusive hug and join hands...................YALL its of satan its a sham to lead all to the beast .

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

16 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Get the heck out of any churches that has its focus on world peace .GET OUT , GET OUT NOW .

Yes, we cannot have peace with this world... As for it to happen we would have to deny the Lord Jesus as the world cannot receive Him.

"the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;
but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." - John 14:17

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

 

And beware of false Christs who is shouting for world peace and presenting solutions to its problems.

"And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them." - Luke 17:23

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." - Matthew 24:24

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Yes, we cannot have peace with this world... As for it to happen we would have to deny the Lord Jesus as the world cannot receive Him.

"the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;
but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." - John 14:17

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

 

And beware of false Christs who is shouting for world peace and presenting solutions to its problems.

"And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them." - Luke 17:23

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." - Matthew 24:24

AND THEN THEY WILL SAY............

hey my friend of many letters...................interfaith for world peace the jewish verison

you KNOW what its Rabbis are already saying........................JESUS IS HERE , HE IS UNDER the temple and him and moses and ALLAH are all dancing for world peace.

YEAH they already doing it.     EVEN the orthodox jews.................you know what they are teaching ..................MESSIAH is soon to come and bring WORLD PEACE.

OOOPS....................it wont be messiah.............lest itsfirst name is anti.   THIS WHOLE WORLD is getting duped with this all inclusive mindset for world peace.

ITS LEADING TO THE BEAST .  THE END , the final hour is at the door and a monster tribulation will follow when once THE HEAD rises . 

[Pudgenik]

39 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Pay close heed.    The all inclusive mindset which all religions are beginning to join in,  WILL be the mindset that leads to the beast and its worship.

I agree not all will worship this beast .    But all who go under this mindset will be destroyed by CHRIST HIMSELF at HIS COMING.

Get the heck out of any churches that has its focus on world peace .GET OUT , GET OUT NOW .

the delusion is tied into this .   The peoples minds are being made ready for the beast and its solution for world peace .

Get OUT of any church that focuses on hugs and smiles ,BUT not one ounce of gravity , no sound doctrine.  

Pudgenik.    Listen closely, this monster , this evil spirit has been at work for some time now .    It destroyed from within many christain churches

with seeker friendly.   just ripped them up and they done for .     IF any comes saying we need to set aside differences and focus on unity.  GET THE HECK OUT

they KNOW what they doing , this spirit is wiser than any man women or child .   It cannot be defeated in the carnal realm.   ONLY those  TRULY in the LAMB

will be able to discern it as false.  ALL others in time , more and more will see it as love, peace , unity , feeling good ,  holding hands with who ever , and correctin nothing.

WE cannot have anything to do with this wicked spirit.     Its leading the world right to  the worship of the beast . 

ISIS, is a pebble, its a joke compared to this .    Satan uses ISIS to do his work,  he uses terrorism to do his work

and all the while he uses many with this all inclusive world peace as the solution .    Satan is the one running both sides .  He created the divisions and hate

and he is brining the solution .  BUT the solution will allow the world as one to hand over all authority to this beast .     We running out of time.

ITS a sham.    this world peace , interfaith , all inclusive hug and join hands...................YALL its of satan its a sham to lead all to the beast .

The Two Witnesses stand against the darkness. And there are others God has chosen to teach, preach, and witness