God, Time and Foreknowledge; how can God know the future?

[vlad]

On 12/30/2017 at 8:50 AM, MorningGlory said:

This article provides a good explanation of God's relation to time as opposed to ours.  It makes sense that, since He created everything, he created time as well.   He exists outside of time, no beginning and no end, and the only time He was subject to time as we are was when He became flesh and came to live among us.

https://incisivereview.com/2015/07/15/god-time-and-foreknowledge-how-can-god-know-the-future/

 I have read the article. Thank you. Right God is the Creator and Master of time and He always knows the future as He actually creates it and can always change the future when He is willing to.

[MorningGlory]

10 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

 

these verses also speak of consecutive periods("thousands of years", "days", "nights") - God is indefinitely existing and living throughout the time's infinity, and as man lives many successive days and nights, so God lives for zillions of eternities(eternal cycles), but this doesn't mean there is no beginning or end for Him, because as every day of men has a beginning and end, so every eternity has a beginning and end (for it is a cycle and a period) - let's say the life of God also has some span/cycle, albeit without Him ever ceasing to exist/live (even for a while) throughout the time's infinity, and that cycle of His life is called "eternity" in Scripture...

Blessings

I don't see that at all....from Dictionary.com:

eternal

adjective

1.

without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):

eternal life.

2.

perpetual; ceaseless; endless:

eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

3.

enduring; immutable:

eternal principles.

4.

Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

[Justin Adams]

Time is but a created construct. As such, we cannot appreciate God's dwelling place. It is not so much that the Lord is prophetic (man is) but from His position, it has already happened.
He gazes down thru time and gives us mileposts to go by. But for Him, He has the New Jerusalem in His top pocket, just waiting for us all to catch up so He can present it to us. Thus His patience (to us) is a forever type of construct - but for Him, there is no waiting. It is extant. I AM just IS.

[MorningGlory]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Time is but a created construct. As such, we cannot appreciate God's dwelling place. It is not so much that the Lord is prophetic (man is) but from His position, it has already happened.
He gazes down thru time and gives us mileposts to go by. But for Him, He has the New Jerusalem in His top pocket, just waiting for us all to catch up so He can present it to us. Thus His patience (to us) is a forever type of construct - but for Him, there is no waiting. It is extant. I AM just IS.

Good explanation, Justin.  God created time but He is not subject to it. 

[Enoch2021]

15 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

All of those things are theories at this point, ET.  The article doesn't claim that they are definite.

AGAIN, How can these be "Scientific Theories" and at the same time not be "Definite" when Scientific Theories (Actual REAL Ones) are Definite/CONFIRMED...

"A Scientific Theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with REPEATED TESTING." 
https://www.thoughtco.com/scientific-hypothesis-theory-law-definitions-604138

"A Scientific Theory consists of one or more hypotheses that have been supported with REPEATED TESTING."
https://futurism.com/hypothesis-theory-or-law/

"A Scientific Theory represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been CONFIRMED through REPEATED EXPERIMENTAL TESTS."
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/appendixe/appendixe.html

So what exactly are you talking about ?? 

 

It's my contention that 'those things' in the article are not even VIABLE Scientific Hypotheses let alone Scientific Theories.

And... if they're not even VIABLE "Scientific Hypotheses", then they're ABJECT SPECULATIONS (colloquial "theory") and have as much veracity and applicability as Alice in Wonderland.

 

regards

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

AGAIN, How can these be "Scientific Theories" and at the same time not be "Definite" when Scientific Theories (Actual REAL Ones) are Definite/CONFIRMED...

"A Scientific Theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with REPEATED TESTING." 
https://www.thoughtco.com/scientific-hypothesis-theory-law-definitions-604138

"A Scientific Theory consists of one or more hypotheses that have been supported with REPEATED TESTING."
https://futurism.com/hypothesis-theory-or-law/

"A Scientific Theory represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been CONFIRMED through REPEATED EXPERIMENTAL TESTS."
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/appendixe/appendixe.html

So what exactly are you talking about ?? 

 

It's my contention that 'those things' in the article are not even VIABLE Scientific Hypotheses let alone Scientific Theories.

And... if they're not even VIABLE "Scientific Hypotheses", then they're ABJECT SPECULATIONS (colloquial "theory") and have as much veracity and applicability as Alice in Wonderland.

 

regards

I said THEORIES, not scientific theories.  Just general ones. They are, as yet, unproven.  Per Merriam/Webster:

Definition of theory

plural theories

1 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

• the wave theory of light

2 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action

• her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn

b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory

• in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all

3 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

b : an unproved assumption : conjecture

c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject

• theory of equations

4 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art

• music theory

5 : abstract thought : speculation

6 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

[Enoch2021]

15 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I said THEORIES, not scientific theories.  Per Merriam/Webster:

Definition of theory

plural theories

1 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

• the wave theory of light

2 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action

• her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn

b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory

• in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all

3 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

b : an unproved assumption : conjecture

c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject

• theory of equations

4 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art

• music theory

5 : abstract thought : speculation

6 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

Yes, like I said: an ABJECT SPECULATION (Conjecture).

 

Quote

Just general ones. They are, as yet, unproven. 

1.  How does an Abject Speculation get "Proven" ...?  Post the steps...? THEN...

2.  What is it called ...?

 

regards

 

[MorningGlory]

30 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

Yes, like I said: an ABJECT SPECULATION (Conjecture).

 

1.  How does an Abject Speculation get "Proven" ...?  Post the steps...? THEN...

2.  What is it called ...?

 

regards

 

You're the one claiming 'abject speculation'....you tell US.,

[ytLiJC]

9 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I don't see that at all....from Dictionary.com:

eternal

adjective

1.

without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):

eternal life.

2.

perpetual; ceaseless; endless:

eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

3.

enduring; immutable:

eternal principles.

4.

Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

 

check this:

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/eternity

an eternity - a very long time

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/eternity

1.4 (an eternity) informal A period of time that seems very long, especially on account of being tedious or annoying.

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/eternity

2 [SINGULAR] an extremely long time

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/eternity

2. singular noun
If you say that a situation lasted for an eternity, you mean that it seemed to last an extremely long time, usually because it was boring or unpleasant.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/eternity

4. A very long or seemingly endless time

5. a seemingly endless period of time

 

strong's biblical lexicon:

eternity, αἰών (masculine noun) Strong's G165 - transliteration: aiōn - pronunciation: ī-ō'n

1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2. the worlds, universe

3. period of time, age

an example:

Revelation 14:11 (Aramaic Bible) "And the smoke of their torment ascends for the eternity of eternities, and there is no rest, day or night, for those who worship The Beast and its Image and for him who takes the mark of its name."

 

usually the popular dictionaries and encyclopedias don't present the true meanings of the biblical words and expressions, because they are composed by people that don't know the scriptural/biblical concepts and terms, but in the case (of the word "eternity") there is some coincidence

Blessings

Edited January 3, 2018 by ytLiJC

[BeyondET]

22 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

 

these verses also speak of consecutive periods("thousands of years", "days", "nights") - God is indefinitely existing and living throughout the time's infinity, and as man lives many successive days and nights, so God lives for zillions of eternities(eternal cycles), but this doesn't mean there is no beginning or end for Him, because as every day of men has a beginning and end, so every eternity has a beginning and end (for it is a cycle and a period) - let's say the life of God also has some span/cycle, albeit without Him ever ceasing to exist/live (even for a while) throughout the time's infinity, and that cycle of His life is called "eternity" in Scripture...

Blessings

Time is something I believe God created for our universe the physical, beyond the physical is infinity, I can say we don't know exactly but your analogy of a beginning and end of God, well that could be a repeating process, scripture does say anything is possible with Him as well its forever and ever. cycle or no cycle.

those scriptures you mention, another time frame (a watch in the night) is 3 hours

a thousand years is like 3 hours.