Wayne222 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,556 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,634 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, inchrist said: Again taken out of context 20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christand to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Let Paul explain his meaning of his eagerly expect For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.” Romans 8:19. Paul’s earnest expectation and hope was for the time when his body would be redeemed. No where in Philippians 1:20-24 does Paul state he wanted to depart and be with Christ immediately. Paul states he earnest expectations to be with Christ and we have found out from his other teachings that his expectation centered on the resurrection Paul knew when he died he went to be with Christ right away. Not at ressurection of the body. He wanted to die and be with Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,556 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 7,634 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, inchrist said: Which is taken out of context For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord” Paul specifically states he does not want to be unclothed (without a body), but rather further clothed (different body). Not be disembodied; like some floating soul. This entire passage is about resurrection. If you compare the rest of his teachings 1 Corinthians 15:51–54 is the exact same teaching So when Paul states; he prefers to be absent from the body and present with the Lord; Paul is specifically stating when we stand in God’s presence, we will not be in the same body we have now; but in a moment; in a twinkle of eye the next conscious thought we will have is being present with the Lord in our glorified bodies absent from our present bodies - resurrection. You must be either SDA or one of the off shoots from the worldwide church of God. Jesus clearly told the thief on the cross that same day he would be in paradise with Jesus. And Lazarus died and open his eyes in Hades. He knew he was dead. But you will probably twist this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Wayne222 said: You must be either SDA or one of the off shoots from the worldwide church of God. Jesus clearly told the thief on the cross that same day he would be in paradise with Jesus. And Lazarus died and open his eyes in Hades. He knew he was dead. The Greek word paradeisos is used in eschatological terms of restoration, that God will bring about -Isaiah 51:3. It is used again in Revelation 2:7 in connection with the tree of life, to be present on the new earth. There is no suggestion in that verse the term should mean heaven Time is also relative; death refers to an absolute loss of all consciousness. If your consciousness completely ceased today and then you regain consciousness 20 years later; you would experience 20 yrs immediately today the moment you lost consciousness. As for Lazarus; he was carried by angels; exactly describing what occurs with our resurrection. Which is confirmed when you are resurrected opening up your eyes. But you will probably twist this. When scripture repeatedly and clearly states no consciousness no awereness; no knowledge over and over.....the question then needs to ask who really is twisting scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Wayne222 said: Paul knew when he died he went to be with Christ right away. Not at ressurection of the body. He wanted to die and be with Christ. No he didnt; because Paul had in his thought; not your thought that his "eagerly expect" is connected with his teachings of resurrection. Scripture must interpret scripture if you wish to understand Paul's thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 8:30 AM, Jaynee said: Looking for some opinions/ bible info. Is Heaven a place where we will physically be? Or a place we will feel spiritually? Also - I'm aware the dead will sleep, until the coming of Jesus. I don't believe we go straight to Heaven. I believe we will all be judged at the same time. Although, the part I'm unsure about is, where will our minds and souls be during this time of "sleep"? And are the saved at peace during this time? My Grandmother has recently passed away, she was saved also. I suppose it's just made me wonder about these things a little more and spiritually where will she be at this moment ? If anywhere ? Thanks Those who are saved will be Raptured into heaven. There also is no soul sleep as some preach but when you die your soul goes to heaven. At the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ the heavenly Jerusalem will come down to earth so everybody will live in heaven on earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 18 hours ago, simplejeff said: Thinking the soul is separated from the body is a heresy from centuries ago. NOOO it isnt. It is in the scriptures and the proofs have been posted 100x over so I wont repeat them. Go back over these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 23 hours ago, Justin Adams said: The others appear to be in Sheol as far as the ancient's way of speaking. I may be misunderstanding you here but if you are speaking about the saved dead Sheol in empty. It was emptied out with Christ's resurrection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said: I may be misunderstanding you here but if you are speaking about the saved dead Sheol in empty. It was emptied out with Christ's resurrection If that is indeed the case, then why do the scriptures talk about 'sleep'. However, the Mesopotamian concepts of Sheol may not be the same as our concept of the place where the saved sleep. It may even be under or in the altar of the most High. Wherever and however it is in 'reality' or in terms of 'time' it is a safe place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynee Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 30 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Thank you @TheMatrixHasU71 That has helped. So, my question now is, when it says there will be a new heaven and a new earth.. this is not meaning at the same time, as in two different places? I have heard some people say that the "higher ranked" Christians will be with God in the new Heaven, and the "lower ranked" Christians will tend to and live on the "New Earth"? unsure what my own opinions on that are, but what would you say on that subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted January 16, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jaynee said: Thank you @TheMatrixHasU71 That has helped. So, my question now is, when it says there will be a new heaven and a new earth.. this is not meaning at the same time, as in two different places? I have heard some people say that the "higher ranked" Christians will be with God in the new Heaven, and the "lower ranked" Christians will tend to and live on the "New Earth"? unsure what my own opinions on that are, but what would you say on that subject? No no, at the same time friend. The old heaven and the old earth shall be destroyed and there shall be a new heaven and the new earth created, a perfect incorrupt heaven and earth. And what you have heard sounds a lot like what Jehovah's witnesses believe. Stay away from them sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts