Catholic Stigmata and Miracles

[frienduff thaylorde]

13 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Where do you get this from Scripture?

And he deceives them by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast .     OH YES .  

And how often JESUS warned how even if it were possible the elect could be deceived .  

[enoob57]

7 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And he deceives them by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast .     OH YES .  

And how often JESUS warned how even if it were possible the elect could be deceived .  

God categorizes them as lying wonders

2 Thess 2:9-11

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and

lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

KJV

[missmuffet]

Satan can perform miracles but we can not be deceived. We must stay very close to the Word of God.

Question: "What does the Bible say about demonic/satanic miracles?"

Answer: You will be hard pressed to find someone who has never heard of some kind of religious miracle. Many Catholics are convinced of the validity of various sightings of the Virgin Mary, stigmata, weeping or bleeding statues, and even “incorruptible bodies.” There are reported miracles in other religions, as well—Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam all claim to have documented miracles. 

Satan has the power to perform miracles. While his power is limited, he can and does perform miracles in order to deceive. John 8:44 says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Satan can make himself appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). He does this to draw people away from God. 

When Moses and Aaron confronted Pharaoh, they performed a miraculous sign to confirm their message from God (Exodus 7:8–10). The magi of Egypt were able to perform the same miracle “by their secret arts” (verse 11). God’s miracle was shown to be greater (verse 12), but the fact is that the magi were able to perform a satanic miracle in the king’s court. 

During the tribulation, the Antichrist “will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:9). These miracles are explicitly said to be empowered by Satan. Jesus warned that the end times will be characterized by the treachery of counterfeit prophets who “will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive” (Matthew 24:24).

The existence of demonic miracles is one reason why we must test all spirits: “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Any time we are in doubt, we are to make sure that what is being taught lines up with what Scripture says. If the miracle worker is teaching something contrary to God’s Word, then his miracles, no matter how convincing they seem, are a demonic delusion. 

Examples of convincing demonic miracles today are the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in different countries. These appearances of Mary seem legitimate; indeed, they are believed by millions of people. But when we compare what the apparitions say to what Scripture teaches, it is not even close. Over the course of several Marian apparitions, we are told that God wants to establish worldwide devotion to Mary’s immaculate heart, that souls will be saved if devotions to her immaculate heart are established, that she is the mediatrix between man and God, that praying the rosary is required to enter heaven, that she receives and answers prayer, that taking communion makes reparation for sins committed against her, and that blessed objects should be worn and placed in homes. 

None of these messages are of God. Jesus is the only way to God (John 14:6). Mary does not have an “immaculate” (sinless) heart. Devotion to Mary is not necessary, and the Bible never instructs us to pray to anyone but God. Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (Hebrews 7:25; 1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1). 

The message of the Marian apparitions clearly contradicts Scripture. Did the people who claim to have seen Mary experience a real miracle? Yes, possibly. However, the entity calling itself “Mary” is not working for God’s glory or pointing people to Jesus Christ. Rather, Mary is being glorified, and people are being told to earn their own salvation by works.

Demonic miracles are real and they do occur. It is our responsibility to make sure that we do not give in to them. We must keep our Bibles open and put God’s revealed truth ahead of any miracle we see.

https://www.gotquestions.org/demonic-satanic-miracles.html

Edited October 17, 2018 by missmuffet

[other one]

44 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Where do you get this from Scripture?

How about personal experience?

 

[other one]

21 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

God categorizes them as lying wonders

2 Thess 2:9-11

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and

lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

KJV

but are the wonders fake, or do they tell a fake story....   I tend to think the latter, but I've seen weird things happen around demonic forces...

[Guest 1sheep]

23 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Satan can perform miracles but we can not be deceived. We must stay very close to the Word of God.

Question: "What does the Bible say about demonic/satanic miracles?"

Answer: You will be hard pressed to find someone who has never heard of some kind of religious miracle. Many Catholics are convinced of the validity of various sightings of the Virgin Mary, stigmata, weeping or bleeding statues, and even “incorruptible bodies.” There are reported miracles in other religions, as well—Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam all claim to have documented miracles. 

Satan has the power to perform miracles. While his power is limited, he can and does perform miracles in order to deceive. John 8:44 says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Satan can make himself appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). He does this to draw people away from God. 

When Moses and Aaron confronted Pharaoh, they performed a miraculous sign to confirm their message from God (Exodus 7:8–10). The magi of Egypt were able to perform the same miracle “by their secret arts” (verse 11). God’s miracle was shown to be greater (verse 12), but the fact is that the magi were able to perform a satanic miracle in the king’s court. 

During the tribulation, the Antichrist “will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:9). These miracles are explicitly said to be empowered by Satan. Jesus warned that the end times will be characterized by the treachery of counterfeit prophets who “will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive” (Matthew 24:24).

The existence of demonic miracles is one reason why we must test all spirits: “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Any time we are in doubt, we are to make sure that what is being taught lines up with what Scripture says. If the miracle worker is teaching something contrary to God’s Word, then his miracles, no matter how convincing they seem, are a demonic delusion. 

Examples of convincing demonic miracles today are the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in different countries. These appearances of Mary seem legitimate; indeed, they are believed by millions of people. But when we compare what the apparitions say to what Scripture teaches, it is not even close. Over the course of several Marian apparitions, we are told that God wants to establish worldwide devotion to Mary’s immaculate heart, that souls will be saved if devotions to her immaculate heart are established, that she is the mediatrix between man and God, that praying the rosary is required to enter heaven, that she receives and answers prayer, that taking communion makes reparation for sins committed against her, and that blessed objects should be worn and placed in homes. 

None of these messages are of God. Jesus is the only way to God (John 14:6). Mary does not have an “immaculate” (sinless) heart. Devotion to Mary is not necessary, and the Bible never instructs us to pray to anyone but God. Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (Hebrews 7:25; 1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1). 

The message of the Marian apparitions clearly contradicts Scripture. Did the people who claim to have seen Mary experience a real miracle? Yes, possibly. However, the entity calling itself “Mary” is not working for God’s glory or pointing people to Jesus Christ. Rather, Mary is being glorified, and people are being told to earn their own salvation by works.

Demonic miracles are real and they do occur. It is our responsibility to make sure that we do not give in to them. We must keep our Bibles open and put God’s revealed truth ahead of any miracle we see.

https://www.gotquestions.org/demonic-satanic-miracles.html

Close to the word of God OR close to gotquestions.org?  

[warrior12]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

Where do you get this from Scripture?

 

Exodus 7 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁰ And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as theLord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

¹¹ Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

¹² For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

[Concretecamper]

On 3/3/2018 at 5:57 PM, Eternal Call said:

Hello All, 

Being from a Catholic background, I used to believe in a lot of things I see in the Catholic church or "saints". 

I have been a long way since that time and have got rid of all the pagan rituals of that church. However, I still struggle with some issues:

1- The Stigmata: I am sure somebody here knows about Saint Francis of Assisi or Padre Pio of Pieterlcina. I am interested to know your take on this phenomenon. I don't see anything in the Holy Bible talking about this. However I am trying to make sense of it. I mean many people believe Francis of Assisi to be a true follower of Christ, yet there is this phenomenon in his life. How come this phenomenon is only happening in the Catholic Church? 

I know some would say it is all fake, but it seems unlikely to me looking at these persons. 

2- Miracles by dead Catholic "Saints": the other issue is miracles done by Catholic "saints". We see a lot of these saints' bodies still oozing blood and well preserved. There are a lot of stories about serious sicknesses and diseases being healed by visits to their tombs, or by appearances. Seems weird to me. There is saint called Saint Charbel from Lebanon that is becoming very popular for healing people from all over the world. He appears to them in their sleep and performs operations and such things. 

Now if these miracles happen, do you think that the devil can be responsible for healing people? 

 

Let me know what you think, it is time I move on from this.

God bless

God allows suffering in all our lives.  God also allows some to suffer more than others.  According to Paul, His grace is sufficient in all cases.  Why does God allow someone to have the wounds of Christ?  I would say Love.

As far as miracles, I would suggest you research Eucharistic miracles.  Many are substantiated by secular source.  Start with one of the most famous "Lanciano"

God Bless

[Concretecamper]

11 minutes ago, 1sheep said:

It wasnt substantiated. 

The proof was real flesh and real blood from a HUMAN SP ECIES locked up in a creepy catholic museum. There was never proof where it came from. There absolutely ZERO PROOF that it was bread and wine first. 

The story was not even told till 1000 yrs later by an anonymous source! 

God is not going to perform miracles in a church that doesnt glorify Christ. Satan will though.

Let the original poster decide.

The questions raised may be the grace of God acting to bring him/her home to His Church

Edited October 17, 2018 by Concretecamper

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, other one said:

How about personal experience?

 

I believe the Bible clearly teaches us to not rely upon subjective experience because as a whole this is true

1 Corinthians 8:2 (KJV)

²And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

based on this I believe Scripture should be our start and finish of reason must be fully based on the written Word...

1 hour ago, other one said:

but are the wonders fake, or do they tell a fake story....   I tend to think the latter, but I've seen weird things happen around demonic forces...

I don't believe based on these passages of Scripture that he can:
Isa 42:8-9
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
KJV

Isa 43:7-11
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
KJV

Isa 48:11-13
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
KJV

John 17:24-26
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, 
                                                    and these have known           that thou hast sent me.

                            
                            John 14:9-12
                            9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
                            10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: 
                            but the Father that dwelleth in me, 
                            he doeth the works.
                            11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: 
                            or else believe me for the very works' sake.
                            12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
                            KJV
                            

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
KJV

Satan wonders and signs cannot be from God as miraculous for they are called
2 Thess 2:9-11
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and 
lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
KJV

Point one: God declares He will not give His Glory to another thus Jesus affirms The Father works the miracles in Him and by them Jesus said believe for the works sake…

Point two: if the miracles satan was doing real and from God could they be called lying wonders?