PAPAL INFALLIBILITY

[JimmyB]

14 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Also,  I have experenced what I said, myself.   I also, have seen that happen to many others too.   Not all things are written in the Bible. 

Do you consult the Bible on how to repair your Car, fly a Jet? do surgey? play any modern sports?

Are you okay?  Apparently, you don't understand what the Bible is.  It is a collection of writings that primarily reveal God's spiritual truths, as well as documenting His interaction with certain people throughout history.

What is the point of your last sentence? (Which you typed on a computer, a device not mentioned in the Bible).

BTW, the discussion has morphed into something that has nothing to do with the OP: Papal infallibility.

Edited September 6, 2023 by JimmyB

[Daniel Marsh]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:48 AM, JimmyB said:

Are you okay?  Apparently, you don't understand what the Bible is.  It is a collection of writings that primarily reveal God's spiritual truths, as well as documenting His interaction with certain people throughout history.

What is the point of your last sentence? (Which you typed on a computer, a device not mentioned in the Bible).

BTW, the discussion has morphed into something that has nothing to do with the OP: Papal infallibility.

Someone changed our claim that when a Jewish person seperates from their family they are for that time considered dead.    You used Luke 15, I gave other examples.

[JimmyB]

13 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Someone changed our claim that when a Jewish person seperates from their family they are for that time considered dead.    You used Luke 15, I gave other examples.

Well, I am a Jewish Christian (born a Jew, born again as a Christian) and nobody in my family considered me dead.  Perhaps that is the case with some orthodox Jews but is certainly is not a general rule.  Other Jews I know who became Christians were still accepted by their families.

The Parable of the Lost Son is a parable, used to teach a spiritual lesson.  Luke 15:24 clearly shows that you are mistaken: "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate."

Why can't you admit that you're wrong?

[garee]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:48 AM, JimmyB said:

BTW, the discussion has morphed into something that has nothing to do with the OP: Papal infallibility.

I think the idea which you offered  "you don't understand what the Bible is" makes up Papal authority as false apostles bringing false prophecy (oral tradition) . . therefore taking away the written authority of God giving it over to the oral tradition of dying mankind Popes,  called "daysman"seen  in Job 9 in a attempt at making dying mankind into the God .

God is not a invisible man. 

Daysman a fleshly infalible interterpeter set between temporal man seen and eternal God not seen. . with the seal of approval of both .  thou shall not surely die the voice of the daysman /

Job 9:32-34 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman (Pope)  betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

10 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Well, I am a Jewish Christian (born a Jew, born again as a Christian) and nobody in my family considered me dead.  Perhaps that is the case with some orthodox Jews but is certainly is not a general rule.  Other Jews I know who became Christians were still accepted by their families.

The Parable of the Lost Son is a parable, used to teach a spiritual lesson.  Luke 15:24 clearly shows that you are mistaken: "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate."

Why can't you admit that you're wrong?

"was dead"  proves my claim.    Why can't you admit that you're wrong?

Does those at Temple consider you dead?  At my Temple some do, some do not.  

[Daniel Marsh]

5 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

"was dead"  proves my claim.    Why can't you admit that you're wrong?

Does those at Temple consider you dead?  At my Temple some do, some do not.  

"

Talmudic Reinterpretation of Herem

By the time the rabbis of the Mishnah (a body of Jewish legal text compiled around the year 200 C.E) dealt with the concept of herem the word had transformed to more closely refer to excommunication, also known as niddui. During the seven-day period of niddui the person being punished was required to observe the customs of mourning (not shaving, bathing, or wearing shoes, for example), and no one was allowed to be in this person’s presence. Herem was a stricter form of niddui, and could last an indefinite amount of time. Herem required the Jewish community to cut off all ties to the person being excommunicated, and to refrain from conducting business and studying with them. A beit din (rabbinical court) had the power to impose herem, and could modify the severity of the punishment based on the person’s level of remorse. ...    Herem was often a response to a person expressing views considered by the community to be heretical." 

In this case teaching Jesus is the Messiah.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/herem/

[Daniel Marsh]

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691143187/jesus-in-the-talmud

use find for shun https://ccel.org/ccel/lightfoot/talmud/talmud.i.iv.html

"Ben Zoma was a prominent 1st and 2nd century tanna who was adjudged as being “on the outside” by his peers. A Talmudic passage suggests that he had doctrinally “gone astray,” evidenced by his “trinitarian” allusions based on an exegesis of a portion of Bereshit (Genesis), and cryptic comments about the virgin birth.51 He was one of the four rabbis who went into the pardes (orchard) of esoteric knowledge, “gazed and [went out of his mind],”52 a possible rabbinic rationalization for why he had “gone astray” in his messianic allusions and interpretations. Although it would have been very difficult to publicly disavow this brilliant sage (who also appears in every Haggadah), saying he “was on the outside” was a possible way of signaling that he was a believer in Yeshua to be shunned.53"

https://www.kesherjournal.com/article/the-talmuds-counter-yeshua-narrative-in-response-to-the-brit-hadashah/

[Daniel Marsh]

"The Samaritan community was a dissident group, shunned by others (Si 50:25-26). It was based on a particular form of the Pentateuch after rejection of the Jerusalem Temple and its priesthood. The Samaritan Temple was built on Mt Gerizim (Jn 4:9,20). They had their own priesthood."

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

"CHAPTER I. JESUS CHRIST IN THE TALMUD Many passages in the Talmudic books treat of the birth, life, death and teachings of Jesus Christ . He is not always referred to by the same name, however, but is diversely called "That Man," "A Certain One," "The Carpenter's Son," "The One Who Was Hanged," etc. Article I . - CONCERNING THE NAMES OF JESUS CHRIST 1 . The real name of Christ in Hebrew is Jeschua Hanotsri-Jesus the Nazarene . He is called Notsri from the city of Nazareth in which he was brought up. Thus in the Talmud Christians also are called Notsrint-Nazarenes . Since the word Jeschua means "Savior," the name Jesus rarely occurs in Jewish books . 1 It is almost always abbreviated to Jeschu, which is maliciously taken as if it were composed of the initial letters of the three words Immach SCHemo Vezikro-"May his name and memory be blotted out." 2 'ex. gr. in Maiene ieschua, fol . 66b 2 cf. I . Buxtorf in Abbrev. Jeschu : "The Jews among themselves do not say Jeschu, but Isschu, so nearly corresponding to the words of this curse . When talking to a certain Jew about this some years ago he told me that it not only meant this, but also Jeschu Scheker (liar) Utoebah (and abomination) . Who would not be deeply horrified at this? This Jew lived at Frank- fort and at Hanover and had travelled all over the world . When lie saw how this horrified me, his faith in Judaism began to weaken, for he was not adverse to the Christian faith and had often discussed it with me and Dr. Amando Polano . I also discovered here and there two other secret words from the Jewish Cabala which have to do with this name . It is well known that the Israelites are often warned in their sacred writings to shun the worship of Elohe Nekhar-strange gods or god. What does Elohe Nekhar really mean? By the numbering method of the Gammatria these letters equal 316, which taken together make the word Jeschu. This is found ...

see page 47

https://famguardian.org/Subjects/Spirituality/Corruption/The_Talimud_Unmasked-Rev_I_B_Prenaitis-1892-92pgs-REL.sml.pdf

[Daniel Marsh]

"This paper concerns itself with the remaining power Jewish courts are left with to address the routine problems involved in formation of a sub-society -- excluding people from the sub-society, typically through excommunication and shunning¹⁹. The ability to form a sub-community, and to exclude people from that community is a power that can frequently encourage conduct in ways that formal law itself either cannot or will not accomplish. Jewish law and culture was quite aware of that fact, and designed within its legal and ethical system rules that relate to the use of social pressure. A recent case arising in the rabbinical courts of Israel demonstrates this well, and presents itself as a modern -- but classical -- example of the power of a Jewish court to order social shunning of a person whose conduct is not in full compliance with the ethical dictates of Jewish society. ... In summary, Jewish law has an institution called shunning and excommunication whose goal is to exclude people from the community who seek to dissent from central tenets of the community."   There are 41 references to shun.

https://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom2.html

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"Herem (Hebrew: חֵרֶם, also Romanized chērem, ḥērem) is the highest ecclesiastical censure in the Jewish community. It is the total exclusion of a person from the Jewish community. It is a form of shunning and is similar to vitandus "excommunication" in the Catholic Church. "