The Biblical teachings of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Interpret the following scriptures Diaste [Revelation 3:10, 3:15-22; 4:4; 5:1-10; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:14]

Who are the people in each?

I'll move down the list from top to bottom.

 Members of the body of Christ, the church, the elect.

Members of the body, the church, the elect.

Elders.

God, Elders, a Lamb that had been slain (Jesus), four living creatures.

John the Apostle.

The first beast. The one from the sea. 

Ten kings the identity of which is still a bit mysterious.

A voice speaking to the members of the body.

Armies.

Is that what you were looking for?

 

 

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

The following Scriptural facts to properly interpret them, do not always come from a single passage of Scripture.  Thet also fully verify what I have previously posted and refute your guesswork over them:

Mt.25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

The verse says the holy angels are coming with Jesus. This is the armies. This is "hagios aggelos", in English, 'holy angels'

 

Zech.14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The term for saints used here is "qadosh" and means 'holy'. This is not proof of the bride coming as an army.

 

Jude 14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints"

The term here is "hagios" and again means 'holy'. Not definitive Jude is speaking about the bride of Christ.

 

Rev.19:14 "14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean"

Again not definitive this is the bride of Christ coming as an army. This is an army made up of beings dressed in fine linen, white and clean. The mighty angels are attired the same. And we also see the angels as destroyers in scripture as well as forming a great army made up of untold millions. It is doubtful the Lord would employ the elect as an army when he has the greatest standing army in all of creation at the ready. Do you really believe the Lord would throw His wife into bloody conflict? That is the opposite of His character.

 

Rev.19:8 "Fine linen, bright and clean,was given her to wear.”

(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

The people of God are referred to as the church, corporately. Some individuals are called holy in the NT, John for one, but the church is not referred to in this manner. 'Holy' is generally used to to refer to the Godhead and angels, and not the people of God.

he Greek word apostasia, and the Latin word Fiscessio, in 2Thess.2:3, mean departure, or, to depart:

2 Thess.2:1 - "The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to[meet] Him, we beg you, brethren, not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed.. Do you not recollect that when I was still with you, I told you these things? (vs. 5). 

There is a difference between the terms, The Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Day of the Lord. The Coming of our Lord, is for the gathering of the Church to meet Him, as in the fetching of the Bride found in I Thessalonians 4:16-17; and the Day of the Lord is the day of His vengeance, His wrath as we read in Joel 2:2, A day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and of thick mists and darkness; a day of destruction, Isaiah 13:6; a great and terrible day (Joel 2:31); the Day of the Lord is darkness and not light; it is as if a man fled from a lion and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned with his hand against the wall and a serpent bit him (Amos 5:18-19). 

2nd edit:

So it is the case! Whoever wrote this IS saying the gathering comes before the gathering! They quote the Coming of the Lord as the time of the gathering of the elect (pretrib) when Paul says this gathering will not happen until after the man of sin is revealed! Paul says that day shall not come...What day? The day of the coming of our Lord Jesus...until AFTER the man of sin is revealed. I guess pretrib is actually midtrib.

So the Christians in Thessalonica understood the meaning of this day and through some letter they received, they feared to be in the tribulation. Paul then assured them: The Day of the Lord will not come until the departure comes first and after that the son of perdition will be revealed; and again he assured them again with the words, And now you know what is restraining him; the work of lawlessness is already at work in the world, but it is restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way and then the lawless one will be revealed (vs.6-8). 

This is the most comforting passage assuring the Bride of Christ that she will be taken before the revealing of the antichrist and the time of tribulation. The lawless one will be revealed only on the right time and no one knows when because this event is connected with the taking of the Bride of Christ, a day no one knows when, either the hour of her departure. Only when she is taken away will he be given power to govern the world, for he has no power over the Bride of Christ, whose body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. God’s removal of His Bride will confirm His words, 

Nothing can take them (His sheep) out of My hands. God will protect her from the lawless one by taking her away to Himself. So, as Paul said, Comfort and encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good work and word (II Thessalonians 2:17); and let no one deceive you with the idea that you are going through the tribulation, just as he assured the Thessalonians, he is assuring us of that too!

For the complete article:

http://www.lightfromtheword.org/upload/Apostasia%20or%20Departure.pdf

 

Quasar93

2Thess 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

The context is set here. The day Jesus comes is linked with the gathering. The only gathering specified in connection with the coming of the Lord in all of scripture, mirroring the Matt 24 gathering.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 

Paul is assuring them 'that day' has not come, no matter what they have heard to the contrary. 'That day' is the coming of the Lord Jesus; the only coming of Jesus in connection with the gathering specified in scripture, and again mirroring the Matt 24 coming of the Lord perfectly.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

This is where it all goes wrong for pretrib. The falling away is correctly translated here, more or less. The definition of 'apostasia' is 'revolt', 'defection'. It would have been better in my opinion to say, "...except there come a defection first...". However the concept of falling away is adequate even if it does not really capture the import or reality of what the body of Christ has done, which is abdicating their true spiritual connection with the Father in favor of conceit. If you would like to see the details of 'apostasia' 'aphistemi' and 'dicessio', please let me know. I'll post the definitions, history, usage and etymology.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

No explanation needed here.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 

 Same.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 

 What withholds is the the revealing of the beast and the defection of the body of Christ. What is being withheld is the return of Jesus and the gathering of the elect, The direct antecedent to verse 6 is "that day" and is revealed by Paul to be held in check by events as related in verse 3, " except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,"

There is no justification to conclude any other idea here. 

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

This verse fragment, "...only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way." has been inaccurately rendered from the original language. I can get more into detail with this at a later time. It should read something like, "...only remain steadfast until he emerges in the midst." This fits far better with the concept of the 'mystery of iniquity' than the oddity of, "only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way." which seems to be an almost senseless translation of the original language.

So get ready. The coming of the Lord and the gathering of the elect is on it's way, just not before the beast has his moment. The war is coming and the church is the main combatant.

Edit:

The thought that occurred to me concerns the 'falling away' from Verse 3, above. Lets look at it again, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" Notice the conjunction 'and' connecting the the two events. This shows that even if the 'falling away' could be understood as 'departure', this departure has to occur with the "man of sin be revealed'. There's an 'and' denoting the space/time occurrence of these events in relation to, 'that day' with both occurring BEFORE 'that day'. There is no separation here as in one occurs before 'that day' and the other happening after 'that day'; both come after. This just occurred to me and it's so weird...

That would mean the pretrib gathering would come before the gathering from verse 1, but would have to wait until the beast sits in the Temple. It does not make sense. I mean to say, "Does pretrib take into account the precise language from verse 1 connecting the Coming of our Lord Jesus and the gathering, and then claim these verse 1 events are the pretrib rapture?" If so then the gathering has to happen before the gathering. If not, see below.

With all the sharp detail about the gathering from verse 1, how does pretrib build a case for an early gathering from one misdefined word in verse 3?

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Diaste
A thought occurred to me.

[Quasar93]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

2Thess 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

The context is set here. The day Jesus comes is linked with the gathering. The only gathering specified in connection with the coming of the Lord in all of scripture, mirroring the Matt 24 gathering.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as thatthe day of Christ is at hand. 

Paul is assuring them 'that day' has not come, no matter what they have heard to the contrary. 'That day' is the coming of the Lord Jesus; the only coming of Jesus in connection with the gathering specified in scripture, and again mirroring the Matt 24 coming of the Lord perfectly.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

This is where it all goes wrong for pretrib. The falling away is correctly translated here, more or less. The definition of 'apostasia' is 'revolt', 'defection'. It would have been better in my opinion to say, "...except there come a defection first...". However the concept of falling away is adequate even if it does not really capture the import or reality of what the body of Christ has done, which is abdicating their true spiritual connection with the Father in favor of conceit. If you would like to see the details of 'apostasia' 'aphistemi' and 'dicessio', please let me know. I'll post the definitions, history usage and etymology.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

No explanation needed here.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 

 Same.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 

 What withholds is the the revealing of the beast and the defection of the body of Christ. What is being withheld is the return of Jesus and the gathering of the elect, The direct antecedent to verse 6 is "that day" and is revealed by Paul to be held in check by events as related in verse 3, " except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,"

There is no justification to conclude any other idea here. 

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

This verse fragment, "...only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way." has been inaccurately rendered from the original language. I can get more into detail with this at a later time. It should read something like, "...only remain steadfast until he emerges in the midst." This fits far better with the concept of the 'mystery of iniquity' than the oddity of, "only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way." which seems to be an almost senseless translation of the original language.

So get ready. The coming of the Lord and the gathering of the elect is on it's way, just not before the beast has his moment. The war is coming and the church is the main combatant.

 

 

FYI, there IS NO  gathering together to the Lord in the sky at His second coming as I have shown you previously!  Jesus ministry in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, that He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in Mt.10:5-6.  The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had NOT yet arrived, as recorded in Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and Acts 2:1-3.

Mt.24:30-31 is Jesus second coming WITH HIS CHURCH, from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.  Confirmation of Jesus second coming WITH His Church is recorded in Rev.19:11-21, in verse 14, as I have shown you before.

The teaching by Paul, in 1 Thess.4:13-18 and in 2 Thess.2:1-8, and by Jesus, in Jn.14:2-3 and 28, is about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church and has nothing whatever to do with His second coming, seven years later, WITH His Church!  All of thism has been fully supported by the Scriptures posted in the OP and the post following.

 

Quasar93  

Edited April 26, 2018 by Quasar93

[Daniel 11:36]

You are exactly correct on this matter Quasar93

Edited April 26, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

FYI, there IS NO  gathering together to the Lord in the sky at His second coming as I have shown you previously!  Jesus ministry in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, that He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in Mt.10:5-6.  The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had NOT yet arrived, as recorded in Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and Acts 2:1-3.

Mt.24:30-31 is Jesus second coming WITH HIS CHURCH, from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.  Confirmation of Jesus second coming WITH His Church is recorded in Rev.19:11-21, in verse 14, as I have shown you before.

The teaching by Paul, in 1 Thess.4:13-18 and in 2 Thess.2:1-8, and by Jesus, in Jn.14:2-3 and 28, is about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church and has nothing whatever to do with His second coming, seven years later, WITH His Church!  All of thism has been fully supported by the Scriptures posted in the OP and the post following.

 

Quasar93  

There is no gathering together with the Lord in the sky? What about when Jesus comes in the clouds in Matt 24? Hes in the clouds. In the sky. And the angels are gathering the elect. Then what? The elect go to the local coffee shop to wait for Jesus? Or maybe they are taken to an empty sports stadium? The vast number of gathered elect could only be taken to meet Jesus right away. In the sky. Where He is. In the clouds. Are the elect supposed to meet Him at the Mount of Olives during the wrath of the Lamb?

So there is a gathering of the elect to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus has shown me this. Previously. 

And the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived? How do you explain the salvation of anyone in the OT? Who do you suppose was above the mercy seat in the Temple?  How could David say, " Take not your holy spirit from me."? How do you explain all the power of the prophets and the prophecies they uttered? How do you explain the mentions, by name, of the Holy Ghost in the OT, operating in the realm of mankind?

Rev 19 shows nothing in the way of Jesus returning as warrior king and the great God with the elect. You must have more evidence than just linen, white and clean. Both Angel's and the elect are clothed as such.

The idea of two comings of the Lord Jesus could be valid if the evidence was found to support such a thing. There is a coming of Jesus Christ that is very specific in key elements: Who, What, Where, When and Why. Of course this coming (What) of Jesus (Who) is in the clouds (Where), and after the A of D (When) and immediately following the Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man (When), He appears to gather His friends and destroy His enemies(Why). Pretrib has a Who and a What, a bit of a sketchy Why imo, but no where can be found the Where and When. Since the evidence for a pretrib coming is lacking, and the real coming of Jesus is very specific containing all the evidence; the conclusion is there is one 2nd coming, and that the pretrib rapture is nonexistent. 

Brother you don't really post scripture even as you claim you do. You post references to scriptures, but not the words of that reference. You should post the words of the chapter and verse so we can all get an easy look. And please remember to post a passage of scripture so we can all see the context and get a sense of the concepts. 

 

[Quasar93]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is no gathering together with the Lord in the sky? What about when Jesus comes in the clouds in Matt 24? Hes in the clouds. In the sky. And the angels are gathering the elect. Then what? The elect go to the local coffee shop to wait for Jesus? Or maybe they are taken to an empty sports stadium? The vast number of gathered elect could only be taken to meet Jesus right away. In the sky. Where He is. In the clouds. Are the elect supposed to meet Him at the Mount of Olives during the wrath of the Lamb?

So there is a gathering of the elect to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus has shown me this. Previously. 

And the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived? How do you explain the salvation of anyone in the OT? Who do you suppose was above the mercy seat in the Temple?  How could David say, " Take not your holy spirit from me."? How do you explain all the power of the prophets and the prophecies they uttered? How do you explain the mentions, by name, of the Holy Ghost in the OT, operating in the realm of mankind?

Rev 19 shows nothing in the way of Jesus returning as warrior king and the great God with the elect. You must have more evidence than just linen, white and clean. Both Angel's and the elect are clothed as such.

The idea of two comings of the Lord Jesus could be valid if the evidence was found to support such a thing. There is a coming of Jesus Christ that is very specific in key elements: Who, What, Where, When and Why. Of course this coming (What) of Jesus (Who) is in the clouds (Where), and after the A of D (When) and immediately following the Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man (When), He appears to gather His friends and destroy His enemies(Why). Pretrib has a Who and a What, a bit of a sketchy Why imo, but no where can be found the Where and When. Since the evidence for a pretrib coming is lacking, and the real coming of Jesus is very specific containing all the evidence; the conclusion is there is one 2nd coming, and that the pretrib rapture is nonexistent. 

Brother you don't really post scripture even as you claim you do. You post references to scriptures, but not the words of that reference. You should post the words of the chapter and verse so we can all get an easy look. And please remember to post a passage of scripture so we can all see the context and get a sense of the concepts. 

 

 

 

FYI, Jesus ministry in His first advent, was exclusively to Israel, the Church DID NOT exist, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39,  Until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.  In Mt.24:30, No ONE gathers together with the Lord.  See Zech.9:14 and Rev.19:11-21 for a textual picture of that scene.  In Mt.24:31, the angels will gather the ELECT from four winds [Israel] , from one end of heaven to the other [The raptured Church].

The OP and the following post of this thread, provide you with ALL the Scriptural support used by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, in the teachings of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, you call them all liars, in denying them.  Where did you obtain your qualifications to teach eschatology?

The pre-trib rapture of the Church views posted in the OP are fully endorsed by the following:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.
 

 

Quasar93

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Quasar93

[n2thelight]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:58 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Is I Thessalonians 4:13-17 talking about the rapture? No"

 

Your answer is yes .... you must repent in order to be made immortal

The answer

If you still alive  you will be tribulation and all

[n2thelight]

Psalms 91:7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, And ten thousand at thy right hand, But it shall not come nigh thee."

 

But you all(rapturist)worry.....

[n2thelight]

On 4/24/2018 at 2:12 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

Thanks, but no thanks

If you go into the coming tribulation period it will be as one who is not straight on the word of God

Once you get there you will have to repent in order to be saved

Believe this truth [Revelation 3:15-22]

John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

When's the end?

[n2thelight]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:47 PM, Diaste said:

But I thought the tribulation period was the wrath of God. Isn't that why the rapture is to take place before the tribulation period starts?

There are two tribes,one of satan and one of God

The one of satan is why we need the below

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

My question would be why do we need the armour,if we not gonna be here?

The one of God, being His, we don't worry.

Psalm 91:7-16 New King James Version (NKJV)

7 A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.